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  • FIRST POST
    Rayos
    Crown Land Securities
    • #1
    • 15th Sep 06, 11:26 AM
    Crown Land Securities 15th Sep 06 at 11:26 AM
    Hi - my first post on here. I was browsing the Daily Telegraph website and saw a banner ad for Crown Land Securities www.crownlandsecurities.co.uk and a competition to win some land. So I entered. Have now had a salesman ("Senior Portfolio Advisor") call me and explain the deal (8000 for a small plot of land without planning permission). This is termed Land Banking and investors gamble on planning permission being granted. I wanted to ask if anyone has used this company or heard anything about them. I feel this may be a scam, but the fact that this was via Telegraph site makes me wonder. Many thanks for any responses.
Page 1
  • dmg24
    • #2
    • 15th Sep 06, 11:48 AM
    • #2
    • 15th Sep 06, 11:48 AM
    I don't have personal experience of them but I have heard about it, and it is a scam. Avoid at all costs! x
  • Raggie
    • #3
    • 15th Sep 06, 12:16 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Sep 06, 12:16 PM
    Scam is a bit hard..

    They buy agrigutual land at X per acre.. divide it into little bits and sell at (X*100) per cm..

    the theroy goes.. one person applying to build houses on land wil lbe declined..

    if you have 100 applications for the same land then you have a better chance of it being granted..

    whats even better they make bucketloads on peoples hopes to make a good profit.... so win win :rolleyes:

    sorry if I sound sceptical..
    The only place where success comes before work is the dictionary
  • Rayos
    • #4
    • 15th Sep 06, 12:19 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Sep 06, 12:19 PM
    Thanks Raggie & dmg24 - sounded too good to be true and as usual it seems it is!
  • Debt_Free_Chick
    • #5
    • 15th Sep 06, 12:32 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Sep 06, 12:32 PM
    This is termed Land Banking and investors gamble on planning permission being granted.
    by Rayos
    And if you don't get planning permission? I think the word "gamble" says it all.

    I wanted to ask if anyone has used this company or heard anything about them. I feel this may be a scam, but the fact that this was via Telegraph site makes me wonder. Many thanks for any responses.
    I think you'll find that just about anyone can advertise on the Telegraph site - no-one vets them. You'll probably find that in small print, the Telegraph accepts no responsibility for the legitimacy of advertisers and that they suggest you take your own advise.

    Some land is actually earmarked as potentially for development. Some land is earmarked as "no development". You don't need to pay anyone to find this out - but you do need to go through each local planning authority's Local Plan to find out which land falls in to which category.

    I suppose you could call it a scam - although I think it's probably legal. They are probably giving what they promise - which is an introduction to land that might get planning permission.
  • noyk
    • #6
    • 15th Sep 06, 2:01 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Sep 06, 2:01 PM
    it is a scam, agricultural land is about 2-4k per acre. If you need/want to buy some buy a country magazine, dont buy it from someone selling at 100% markup because they attach a "may be granted planning permission in the future" tag to it!
  • RHemmings
    • #7
    • 15th Sep 06, 2:11 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Sep 06, 2:11 PM
    Some land is actually earmarked as potentially for development. Some land is earmarked as "no development". You don't need to pay anyone to find this out - but you do need to go through each local planning authority's Local Plan to find out which land falls in to which category.
    by Debt_Free_Chick
    How do you get to see the local planning authority's Local Plan? Are these plans available online, or does it depend on the authority?
  • Me Myself
    • #8
    • 15th Sep 06, 5:52 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Sep 06, 5:52 PM
    *Bump*

    I'd like to know the same thing as RHemmings.

    Any ideas please?
    Things can only get better.
  • Victoria Falls
    • #9
    • 15th Sep 06, 6:00 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Sep 06, 6:00 PM
    Local Plan / Development plans - you can either type in your council followed by local plan or unitary development plan in google and see if there is a page? or a really good site is www.planningportal.gov.uk there is a wealth of knowledge on here. Go to http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/genpub/en/1102425564270.html

    click view development plans (left hand side) and type you council in. if there is a plan available it will say. Look on the left hand side for proposals map.

    If the council you have is not on the planning portal, let me know the council and i will see if there is link to it. Most councils are slowly but surely heading towards the web to show items such as development plans. If it is not on your web, you can pop down to the council to view the hard copy. Some librarys also have it on display.
    Last edited by Victoria Falls; 15-09-2006 at 6:14 PM.
  • HenryJames
    Where does your info come from?
    I don't really know where you have got your info from. Land Banking has been around for years. Crown is very reputable and we have dealt with them on many occassions and had good returns.
    It is all about doing proper research into the area you intend to purchase a plot.
    There are clear risks but these guys are experts and know what they are doing.
    Yes they make a lot of money but so could you.
    The world is still round- these techniques were used all the time by private land owners and bokers say 15 years ago but now for many reasons there are opportunities for the private investor too.
    You cannot call this a scam. It is not a get rich fix but should be part of a structured investment plan.
    If I could give any advice it would be to take your investments seriously, do your homework; don't just listen to some guy on this site and who has no idea of what he is talking about.
  • Generali
    I don't really know where you have got your info from. Land Banking has been around for years. Crown is very reputable and we have dealt with them on many occassions and had good returns.
    It is all about doing proper research into the area you intend to purchase a plot.
    There are clear risks but these guys are experts and know what they are doing.
    Yes they make a lot of money but so could you.
    The world is still round- these techniques were used all the time by private land owners and bokers say 15 years ago but now for many reasons there are opportunities for the private investor too.
    You cannot call this a scam. It is not a get rich fix but should be part of a structured investment plan.
    If I could give any advice it would be to take your investments seriously, do your homework; don't just listen to some guy on this site and who has no idea of what he is talking about.
    Originally posted by HenryJames
    Why would a speculative bet on getting planning permission be a good investment? It's not like the purchaser is getting any income from the land and it's an expensive way of buying agricultural land.

    I'd be interested to know your thinking.

    Are you connected with this company or a similar one by any chance? I notice you haven't posted before.
    Thirty years from now there will be a huge amount of oil and no buyers. Oil will be left in the ground. The Stone Age came to an end, not because we had a lack of stones, and the oil age will come to an end not because we have a lack of oil. Sheikh Yamani
  • Doozergirl
    I don't really know where you have got your info from. Land Banking has been around for years. Crown is very reputable and we have dealt with them on many occassions and had good returns.
    It is all about doing proper research into the area you intend to purchase a plot.
    There are clear risks but these guys are experts and know what they are doing.
    Yes they make a lot of money but so could you.
    The world is still round- these techniques were used all the time by private land owners and bokers say 15 years ago but now for many reasons there are opportunities for the private investor too.
    You cannot call this a scam. It is not a get rich fix but should be part of a structured investment plan.
    If I could give any advice it would be to take your investments seriously, do your homework; don't just listen to some guy on this site and who has no idea of what he is talking about.
    Originally posted by HenryJames

    Rubbish. As part of a "structured investment plan" I could buy an entire field of greenbelt land with the hope of obtaining planning permission for an entire development of houses in the future. That would be a less risky investment because I'd stand to make a great deal more money and at the very least I'd stand a hope of getting a development plan agreed which would meet the local plan at the time.

    When you say good returns, have you had planning permission granted on any of your plots? When PP is granted, who owns the land where the road is planned to run (and presumably the services will need to go) to access these particular plots? Presuming it is Crown Investments how is the contract worded to allow the plot owners access to their land and public services without incurring more cost?

    Funny how this is such a hot topic for a newbie after 6.5 months. :rolleyes:
    But I'm just some 'guy' who doesn't know what they're talking about :confused:

    Tesco "land bank". I hardly think that buying 0.1acres of a field in rural Staffordshire qualifies as that.
  • HenryJames
    Difference of opinion/Strategy
    I am in no way connected with this company or any other of its kind.
    I have used two 'Land Banking' companies and admit they are not the correct investment for everybody. However, they have both done me well and I have been more than happy with my return (which has typically been x4 my outlay).
    To clarify; the plots which you purchase are not really done so with the thought of you building on them but with the hope that PP will be granted and the land then sold to a developer for profit. It is a relatively passive investment as the company acts as the broker, applies for PP etc etc
    The sites are well identified and researched.
    I can understand your views and as I have said this is not for everyone. However, I have been investing in and developing property for about 11 years now, my whole professional life, and I have found that land banking fits well into my strategy of investment as a mid to long term investment. I certainly would not suggest putting all my eggs into one basket and going for broke with this system but to say it does not work is not correct. It does and I have seen it happen and had the rewards myself.
    I am sorry that being a 'newbie' on this site does not, in some eyes, grant me much authority.
  • HenryJames
    ps I do not understand the Tesco comment or know anything about investing in rural Staffordshire.
  • Doozergirl
    Well, you may be missing the irony bone but you haven't answered my questions which I felt were quite clear?

    "When you say good returns, have you had planning permission granted on any of your plots? When PP is granted, who owns the land where the road is planned to run (and presumably the services will need to go) to access these particular plots? Presuming it is Crown Investments how is the contract worded to allow the plot owners access to their land and public services without incurring more cost?"
  • Doozergirl
    Of what benefit is it to a plot owner if CLS own 49% of the potential development land when each plot has it's own freehold title?
  • HenryJames
    Doozer
    You are clearly not a believer in this. That is ok.
    It works and has made me alot of money.

    The answer to your question is I don't know who owns the road, I don't really care. By the time building starts I already have my return! and yes several sites have been granted PP.

    I do not quite understand the other question but of course it is in their interest to own half the site, they make alot of money from that.

    Are you sure you understand the concept?

    I find you quite bullish and rude; and there is no need. I am intitled to my opinion just as you are. You think this system does not work, I know it does because I have been involved first hand.

    Maybe you should try it!!

    I have nothing further to add.
  • Doozergirl
    If you read through my posts, you'll find that I'm neither bullish nor rude when someone has something genuine to give or ask. I am asking genuine questions and whilst being cynical, you have the perfect opportunity to answer those questions with the benefit of having invested. You will have to forgive me if I assume that you didn't read through the last six months of posts before finally deciding to reply on this particular thread and choosing not to post on any other thread at all.
    Maybe I'd try it (as you suggest) if someone could give me a little more useful information :confused:. Investing in property myself and this being a MoneySaving site, I like to research exactly what it is before my money into something. Perhaps you aren't personally involved; you're either being evasive or don't seem to know very much about this company that you have dealt with many times :confused:

    I'd genuinely love to see examples of the developments that have sprung up as a result of these small plots being sold off seperately.
    Last edited by Doozergirl; 03-04-2007 at 12:19 AM.
  • ABN
    http://www.propertyscam.org.uk/
  • Doozergirl
    From an article in the Observer linked to from the site linked to by ABN (iyswim!):

    "...Anyone tempted by one of these investments should bear in mind the fact that there is not a single known example to date of a site divided up into small investment plots receiving planning permission for development - despite what any of the salesmen claim about their 'track record'."

    "Hayden James, for example, claims on its website that 'land prices over the past 20 years have seen consistent rises totalling over 1,000 per cent with no signs of slowing'."

    Nothing to do with you, HenryJames? Or would that be too much of a coincidence?
    Last edited by Doozergirl; 03-04-2007 at 12:41 AM.
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