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  • FIRST POST
    • Ladywriter1968
    • By Ladywriter1968 1st Aug 10, 8:47 PM
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    Ladywriter1968
    Funeral Expenses, What happens if person cant pay?
    • #1
    • 1st Aug 10, 8:47 PM
    Funeral Expenses, What happens if person cant pay? 1st Aug 10 at 8:47 PM
    I have a discussion with this top.

    When a person dies. Say they have, No assets! No money! No insurance! And are generally poor! The family are also poor as well and cant afford to cover the funeral costs! Or maybe they dont want to know! They can not claim any benefits there fore cant get any help there either!

    I would like to add also that.

    This person is now in a care home and he has no assets and previously lived in a council house, he has no money either.

    So the council can not get back any money from assets or anything at all as he simply does not have this.

    The Mother died when she was a young child herself so there is no support system for her or family. She is in ill health herself now and can not afford to pay funeral expenses, she just about manages herself to keep a roof over her head.

    The Father told everyone years ago including the child that he was insured for thousands, but it turned out to be a complete lie, they found he was not covered at all. He even told friends he owned his council house, which he didnt of course.

    People started visiting him because they thought he had lots of money. He has nothing. Unfortunately the Father told lie after lie but the only one to suffer would be her really. She took out an insurance but could not keep up payments on her own, when she turned to family to help out, they just turned their backs on her.

    He is now in a care home and gets his £21.60pw I think she said.

    What happens then? Does anyone know the answer to this?

    I just wondered?
    Last edited by Ladywriter1968; 03-08-2010 at 4:10 PM. Reason: Adding more text. To explain further.
Page 1
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 1st Aug 10, 9:22 PM
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    lisyloo
    • #2
    • 1st Aug 10, 9:22 PM
    • #2
    • 1st Aug 10, 9:22 PM
    I believe there is a fund of last resort.
    But it won't pay for polished hearshs and a slap up buffett afterwards.
    It really is the absolute minimum.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 1st Aug 10, 9:29 PM
    • 85,092 Posts
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    dunstonh
    • #3
    • 1st Aug 10, 9:29 PM
    • #3
    • 1st Aug 10, 9:29 PM
    Council is the payer of last resort. However, they do put a claim against the estate. So, once the house clearing company have been in and say the contents are worth £x then the council will put a claim against that.

    As lisyloo says, it is the minimum but its even more minimum than that. No service or ceremony. Cardboard coffin and straight in to the furnace.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. Different people have different needs and what is right for one person may not be for another. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from a Financial Adviser local to you.
  • emmell
    • #4
    • 2nd Aug 10, 10:40 PM
    • #4
    • 2nd Aug 10, 10:40 PM
    When my Grandad died he had no savings or insurance (his so called girlfriend had cashed everything in), so my Mum and two of her sisters had to arrange to pay the Co-op weekly. This was done by taking the cash in every week because none of them had bank accounts to set up direct debits. Although the youngest sister was on benefits the government couldn't help because she wasn't classed as next of kin, the eldest daughter (my Mum) was next of kin.
    ML.
    He who has four and spends five, needs neither purse nor pocket
    • Ladywriter1968
    • By Ladywriter1968 3rd Aug 10, 3:40 PM
    • 873 Posts
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    Ladywriter1968
    • #5
    • 3rd Aug 10, 3:40 PM
    Thank you for your advice.
    • #5
    • 3rd Aug 10, 3:40 PM
    Council is the payer of last resort. However, they do put a claim against the estate. So, once the house clearing company have been in and say the contents are worth £x then the council will put a claim against that.

    As lisyloo says, it is the minimum but its even more minimum than that. No service or ceremony. Cardboard coffin and straight in to the furnace.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    What if the person is in a care home and previously lived in a council house and has no money or assets at all? And the family are poor?
    • Ladywriter1968
    • By Ladywriter1968 3rd Aug 10, 3:43 PM
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    Ladywriter1968
    • #6
    • 3rd Aug 10, 3:43 PM
    and also
    • #6
    • 3rd Aug 10, 3:43 PM
    What if the person is in a care home and previously lived in a council house and has no money or assets at all? And the family are poor?
    Originally posted by Ladywriter1968
    and also the rest of the family just dont care or want to know or help?
    • Ladywriter1968
    • By Ladywriter1968 3rd Aug 10, 3:46 PM
    • 873 Posts
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    Ladywriter1968
    • #7
    • 3rd Aug 10, 3:46 PM
    sorry to hear that, life is so tough
    • #7
    • 3rd Aug 10, 3:46 PM
    When my Grandad died he had no savings or insurance (his so called girlfriend had cashed everything in), so my Mum and two of her sisters had to arrange to pay the Co-op weekly. This was done by taking the cash in every week because none of them had bank accounts to set up direct debits. Although the youngest sister was on benefits the government couldn't help because she wasn't classed as next of kin, the eldest daughter (my Mum) was next of kin.
    ML.
    Originally posted by emmell
    Well this situation is with someone who is only child and their parent in a care home and the rest of the family do not want to know or help, so they have left this only child with the lot high and dry basically. The person can not afford to keep up the insurance premiums anymore as they are poor themselves. The parent never bothered to take out a policy years ago because the father lied to everyone saying he did have a policy but turns out he didnt. When the sibling started to take out the policy he was to old for companies to accept him and the premiums were more then the pay out to.
    • Ladywriter1968
    • By Ladywriter1968 3rd Aug 10, 3:50 PM
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    Ladywriter1968
    • #8
    • 3rd Aug 10, 3:50 PM
    what if this?
    • #8
    • 3rd Aug 10, 3:50 PM
    Your local council will arrange a funeral. The exact nature of what is on offer varies from council to council - if details are available online you can access them by entering the postcode into the webpage at this link.

    Close friends or relatives of the deceased who take responsibiility for arranging the funeral may be able to get help towards the costs from the Social Fund if they receive certain benefits - further details at this link.
    Originally posted by Selden
    The website you sent, thank you for that help, I checked and that council only pays out if you are on certain benefits, and this person is not on any benefits so there fore is stuffed basically.

    You mention close friends and relatives helping out. There arnt any. And the ones that are around dont want to know! The only child, sibling is the one who will be left with everything. The family are horrid and dont care. When it comes to money they certainly dont wish to know. They dont discuss anything either. They are tight and dont care yet although they are quite well off yet the sibling is poor.
    • Ladywriter1968
    • By Ladywriter1968 3rd Aug 10, 3:52 PM
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    Ladywriter1968
    • #9
    • 3rd Aug 10, 3:52 PM
    thanks for your advice
    • #9
    • 3rd Aug 10, 3:52 PM
    I believe there is a fund of last resort.
    But it won't pay for polished hearshs and a slap up buffett afterwards.
    It really is the absolute minimum.
    Originally posted by lisyloo
    Thanks for all your advice.
    • Ladywriter1968
    • By Ladywriter1968 3rd Aug 10, 3:52 PM
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    • 140 Thanks
    Ladywriter1968
    Thanks for all your advice, sorry if I cant answer you all individually.
    • Ladywriter1968
    • By Ladywriter1968 3rd Aug 10, 4:14 PM
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    Ladywriter1968
    thank you for telling me
    When my Grandad died he had no savings or insurance (his so called girlfriend had cashed everything in), so my Mum and two of her sisters had to arrange to pay the Co-op weekly. This was done by taking the cash in every week because none of them had bank accounts to set up direct debits. Although the youngest sister was on benefits the government couldn't help because she wasn't classed as next of kin, the eldest daughter (my Mum) was next of kin.
    ML.
    Originally posted by emmell
    Thank you for telling me this, because she told me that her cousin is on benefits but she is not. So I guess that would apply the same then as to what happened with you, because even though her cousin on benefits, she is not direct next of kin. I really dont know what will happen then, cause she simply does not have the money. They cant get from her what she does not have.
  • dmg24
    If the person does not qualify for benefits, what do they live off now?

    If a Funeral Grant is not possible, the council will make arrangements. However, the paupers funeral described earlier is not accurate, there is the possibility for a small service. I know of several people who have been put to rest in this way (through work).
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 3rd Aug 10, 4:29 PM
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    lisyloo
    What if the person is in a care home and previously lived in a council house and has no money or assets at all? And the family are poor?
    paupers funeral.
    The council do pay. They won't leave dead bodies lying around.
    But it's very basic.

    Won't the care home have this information?
    They surely have people dying all the time through the nature of their business.

    EDIT: ah I see now. I think this is a hypothetical question and they aren't dead yet.
    Last edited by lisyloo; 03-08-2010 at 4:31 PM.
  • emmell
    You can start paying for a funeral before someone has died, depending how ill or old they are will depend on the payments.
    When my grandad died there were five daughters but only three paid the bill weekly between them.
    ML.
    He who has four and spends five, needs neither purse nor pocket
    • Ladywriter1968
    • By Ladywriter1968 5th Aug 10, 10:15 PM
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    • 140 Thanks
    Ladywriter1968
    Thanks everyone for your help.

    I found out some information about this subject by asking a funeral directors.
    They said the council only pay if there is no family.
    If the person is not insured, or not insured for enough, the funeral directors do it all and then the siblings/family have to pay them back by direct debit weekly or monthly if they cant afford the full amount, until it is all paid up. But I also found out that if you get "Tax Credits" apparently they help towards it as well.
  • Gmerit
    I am sorry to hear of your problem, the information that you need is available from the department of work and pensions. They will provide funding to pay for a funeral when there are no available funds from either the estate of the deceased or from living relatives. You do not however have to be a relative to claim for this funding. The wording on the DWP website says that anyone who could reasonably be expected to arrange the funeral can claim for the costs to be paid.

    I hope that this helps
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 6th Aug 10, 8:01 AM
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    lisyloo
    and then the siblings/family have to pay them back
    I don't think this is legally true.
    I don't think anyone is obliged to pay for someone else's funeral.
    Imagine if you'd been estraged or never met or didn't even know about each other.
    I am certain this is not a legal obligation although in the vast majority of cases family are going to want to pay of course.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 6th Aug 10, 9:29 AM
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    Quentin
    I don't think anyone is obliged to pay for someone else's funeral.
    Originally posted by lisyloo
    It is the person who organises the funeral who would be ultimately responsible for the bill (with a contract with the undertaker) if there was no other provision (ie nothing in the deceased's estate) to pay for it.
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 6th Aug 10, 9:42 AM
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    lisyloo
    It is the person who organises the funeral who would be ultimately responsible for the bill
    Agreed.
    If you ask an undertaker to do work the of course you have to pay.

    But if you were an estranged sibling or even never knew you had a sibling (does happen) or were adopted then you cannot be forced to pay. I was jsut clarifying this statement.

    and then the siblings/family have to pay them back
    Of course they have to pay the bill if they ordered the services and signed up for it.
    But no-one is obliged to pay for someone else's funeral.
    Of course in 99.9% of cases then family will want to pick up the bill, but there are exceptions.
    • dzug1
    • By dzug1 6th Aug 10, 9:54 AM
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    dzug1
    And noone is obliged to arrange someone else's funeral.

    So the answer is she doesn't arrange it, and isn't liable
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