Main site > MoneySavingExpert.com Forums > Work & Benefits > Benefits & Tax Credits > jsa stopped/ esa refused/still off sick/ NOW WHAT (Page 1)

IMPORTANT! This is MoneySavingExpert's open forum - anyone can post

Please exercise caution & report any spam, illegal, offensive, racist, libellous post to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com

  • Be nice to all MoneySavers
  • All the best tips go in the MoneySavingExpert weekly email

    Plus all the new guides, deals & loopholes

  • No spam/referral links
or Login with Facebook
jsa stopped/ esa refused/still off sick/ NOW WHAT
Closed Thread
Views: 5,675
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
# 1
eliza71
Old 23-06-2010, 11:46 PM
MoneySaving Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7
Default jsa stopped/ esa refused/still off sick/ NOW WHAT

what happens if you have been turned down for esa, your jsa has been stopped but yr doctor still says you are not fit for work because of severe depressive illness ?
eliza71 is offline
Report Post
# 2
dmg24
Old 23-06-2010, 11:53 PM
Deliciously Dedicated Diehard MoneySaving Devotee
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 29,870
Default

Why have you been turned down for ESA? Did you fail the medical/ WCA? Do you feel fit for work?
dmg24 is offline
Report Post
# 3
dmg24
Old 23-06-2010, 11:55 PM
Deliciously Dedicated Diehard MoneySaving Devotee
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 29,870
Default

Have just seen your other thread - if she does not feel fit for work she needs to appeal the ESA decision (assuming she received it recently). She needs to advise the JCP that she wishes to continue to receive the ESA Assessment Rate whilst the appeal is being considered.
dmg24 is offline
Report Post
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dmg24 For This Useful Post: Show me >>
# 4
eliza71
Old 24-06-2010, 9:45 AM
MoneySaving Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7
Default Now what

esa refused because she didn't get enough points..... didn't get any in fact.. but feels she answered questions wrongly ie asked what time she gets up she said 7.30am.. thats to get her daughter to school.. didn't tell them she goes back to bed until her daughter gets home...cries for no reason and obviously not fit for job seeking but getting medical treatment and psycho therapy.... job centre told her that she has been assessed and HAS to seek employment in spite of this.. she has sent letter of appeal but meantime has no income
eliza71 is offline
Report Post
# 5
abhdad
Old 24-06-2010, 3:00 PM
MoneySaving Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1
Unhappy 2 years depression NO SUPPORT NOWHERE TO TURN

Eliza
30 years work, then business bust, lost house, loads debts, Mum died, son with leukaemia, wife went off with someone else, bitter divorce, 3 kids in the middle. all in 18 months.
No family or friends support, only GP
JSA used to watch me come in and sign in tears, no help offered, one staff gave me some 0845 numbers which i couldn't cope with, so everything got stopped. I went 8 months with nothing. Now improving, but going thru all the same old battles again, which drag me backwards.
What is ESA and who are you going to appeal to. The thing that keeps me going now is bitterness and anger, that i wasn't given help, and was left to sort myself out. I couln't even have typed this a year ago.
abhdad is offline
Report Post
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to abhdad For This Useful Post: Show me >>
# 6
Hannah_10
Old 24-06-2010, 4:24 PM
Serious MoneySaving Fan
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,747
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza71 View Post
esa refused because she didn't get enough points..... didn't get any in fact.. but feels she answered questions wrongly ie asked what time she gets up she said 7.30am.. thats to get her daughter to school.. didn't tell them she goes back to bed until her daughter gets home...cries for no reason and obviously not fit for job seeking but getting medical treatment and psycho therapy.... job centre told her that she has been assessed and HAS to seek employment in spite of this.. she has sent letter of appeal but meantime has no income
This happens a lot, it's all so very very British, stiff upper lip and all that. The trouble is the stiff upper lip approach masks the truth and the truth was what they needed to see.

If she talks to her Dr about how life is for her she may be allocated a CPN (community psychiatric nurse) or social worker. Don't worry about the social worker, they're from the adult team not the child team, there is no way they will take the child away, they're there to put Mum back on her feet. Taking the child away wouldn't be right for the child (and anyway it costs hundreds a week to put a child in foster care), whereas helping Mum is probably a matter of continued support a few hours a week. It's normal for a mum with depression to fear losing her kids if she asks for help, but actually it's the opposite. Depression tends to be progressive and worsen over time. I know you called this severe, but this is far from the lowest depths a depression could sink her to, she needs to understand that where she is is currently in the middle and she needs to opt for up rather than down and get support before things do turn into her fears and she does lose the little one.

If she is assigned some comminuty assistance, be that a CPN or social worker (they all work together anyway, so whichever she has they'll be on the same side) that person will help her appeal her benefits and get what is fairly due. Thier position means they are taken a lot more seriously by the benefits agency than just her alone. Also when depressed she probably doesn't have the energy to fight these battles herself. But she has a daughter to support and so she needs to call in the pro's to help her asap.

Tell her to get an urgent Dr's appointment and pour her heart out and ask for an urgent call from the CMHT (community mental health team, where the CPNs and social workers work) it truly is the best thing she could do now.
Hannah_10 is offline
Report Post
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Hannah_10 For This Useful Post: Show me >>
# 7
dookar
Old 24-06-2010, 11:27 PM
Serious MoneySaving Fan
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,621
Default

Why has the JSA been stopped? Not due to illness, surely?
dookar is offline
Report Post
# 8
Googlewhacker
Old 24-06-2010, 11:46 PM
Fantastically Fervent MoneySaving Super Fan
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,720
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhdad View Post
Eliza
30 years work, then business bust, lost house, loads debts, Mum died, son with leukaemia, wife went off with someone else, bitter divorce, 3 kids in the middle. all in 18 months.
No family or friends support, only GP
JSA used to watch me come in and sign in tears, no help offered, one staff gave me some 0845 numbers which i couldn't cope with, so everything got stopped. I went 8 months with nothing. Now improving, but going thru all the same old battles again, which drag me backwards.
What is ESA and who are you going to appeal to. The thing that keeps me going now is bitterness and anger, that i wasn't given help, and was left to sort myself out. I couln't even have typed this a year ago.
Sounds aweful and I would not wish it on anyone but did you actually ask for any help?
The Googlewhacker referance is to Dave Gorman and not to my opinion of the search engine!

If I give you advice it is only a view and always always take professional advice before acting!!!

4 people on the ignore list....Bliss!
Googlewhacker is offline
Report Post
The Following User Says Thank You to Googlewhacker For This Useful Post: Show me >>
# 9
speedfreek1000
Old 25-06-2010, 7:50 AM
MoneySaving Stalwart
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 308
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza71 View Post
what happens if you have been turned down for esa, your jsa has been stopped but yr doctor still says you are not fit for work because of severe depressive illness ?
ESA is tricky especially for mental health illnesses.

You really need to contact your local DIAL http://www.dialuk.info/ and ask for assistance. Also look for a local welfare rights organisation or CAB.

All these provide advice and assistance in claiming benefits, filling out forms and lodging appeals.

Now your ESA when were you turned down?

If you are still within a month of the decision call them and request an appeal form (it's called a GL24 form) or you can download it if times pressing.

Time is of the essence here so you need to get this form and get advice a.s.a.p.

You should also look at the DLA benefit and get advice to see if you meet the criteria for it.

Remember often with a mental health illness the illness itself effects how you perceive yourself and the therefore the problems you experience. This is why it's vital to get help of people experienced in mental health and benefits.

@ abhdad it's a benefit based on your 'Fitness to Work' or lack of it.
speedfreek1000 is offline
Report Post
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to speedfreek1000 For This Useful Post: Show me >>
# 10
Mojisola
Old 25-06-2010, 10:41 AM
Deliciously Dedicated Diehard MoneySaving Devotee
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 16,145
Default

There does seem to be a gap between JSA and ESA. Last week our local radio was discussing a man with ME who had been passed as fit at a medical and so had lost his ESA. JSA was being refused because his GP has said that he is not fit to work and so he wasn't "available for and actively seeking work".

There are a lot of conditions - physical and mental - where someone can do all that's asked of them in a medical but, unless the effect of doing those things repeatedly during the day, day after day, is taken into account, it gives a false view of their capabilities.

The OP needs to get help from an advisor to put in an appeal.
Mojisola is offline
Report Post
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Mojisola For This Useful Post: Show me >>
# 11
eliza71
Old 26-06-2010, 11:27 AM
MoneySaving Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7
Default

thank you all so much .. iknow she has written a letter to say she wants to appeal but didn't even know that there was a special form .... took me 5 hours to help her fill in the last one so good to know her cpn might be able to help with this .... after a 3 month wait she has finally got an appointment.. would u believe i used to work for dss but resigned after paying someon out of my own pocket i was so disgusted with the system .. and that was back in 1980!!!! it's even worse now but i do feel that maybe too many people r abusing the system and thats what makes it so difficult for genuine cases.. tks for help and wish everyone a good and uncomplicated future xx
eliza71 is offline
Report Post
The Following User Says Thank You to eliza71 For This Useful Post: Show me >>
# 12
speedfreek1000
Old 27-06-2010, 8:19 AM
MoneySaving Stalwart
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 308
Default

Yes.

The basics of the appeal is;

1, call and request appeal form
2, fill this in and get this sent back to them with in a month of the ESA decision.
3, wait for a tribunal date and gather evidence to support your case.

It's very important to lodge the appeal with in the time frame of a month from the decision. It doesn't have to be comprehensive as you have time (upto 2 weeks before tribunal date) to build a case based on your medical reports and the results of the ATOS report etc.

They will also need to continue to provide new fit notes from their doctor until the appeal is held.

When you send in the appeal form request all the info the DWP have used in the decision (forms, assessment (medical) reports etc) and also state that you wish to continue to be paid at the ESA assessment rate whilst you appeal.

If the person claims any other benefits (especially Council Tax & Housing benefit/LHA) you should call the relevant departments and ask if you need to inform them of this change.

Not sure about other benefits but the CT/HB/LHA will automatically suspend payment until a change of circumstance form is returned to them. ESA stopping = change of income which you need to tell them of. Same thing has to be done again once the appeal is lodged and ESA payments resume.

There's plenty of advice (some good some bad) on the net on appeals but I'd strongly advise that you contact someone for help.
speedfreek1000 is offline
Report Post
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to speedfreek1000 For This Useful Post: Show me >>
# 13
eliza71
Old 27-06-2010, 9:07 PM
MoneySaving Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7
Default

tks speedfreak... very concise and helpful.. but could u pls tell me what does ATOS stand for ??
eliza71 is offline
Report Post
# 14
speedfreek1000
Old 27-06-2010, 9:19 PM
MoneySaving Stalwart
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 308
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza71 View Post
tks speedfreak... very concise and helpful.. but could u pls tell me what does ATOS stand for ??
I'm assuming they would have gone for what is loosely termed a medical assessment after submitting the application forms?

ATOS is the company who perform these tests for the DWP and produce a report which is given to the person @ the DWP who decides the case.

http://www.atoshealthcare.com/

These reports are often the sole basis for the decision so you will need to go through it and dispute it as part of the appeal.
speedfreek1000 is offline
Report Post
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to speedfreek1000 For This Useful Post: Show me >>
# 15
NASA
Old 27-06-2010, 9:46 PM
Fantastically Fervent MoneySaving Super Fan
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,356
Send a message via MSN to NASA
Default

There is no need to get an appeal form. It can be done in a letter simply stating 'I wish to appeal against......' and the details of the decision you wish to appeal against.
NASA is offline
Report Post
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to NASA For This Useful Post: Show me >>
# 16
allan2006
Old 27-06-2010, 9:54 PM
MoneySaving Stalwart
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 249
Default

what happens if u fail the medical, dont they automatically move you onto jobseekers allowance. Surely if they say your cant recieve esa they must place you on jsa??
allan2006 is offline
Report Post
# 17
divastrop
Old 27-06-2010, 10:09 PM
MoneySaving Stalwart
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: North West
Posts: 310
Default

You have to phone and claim JSA yourself, or ESA. I failed my medical last month and I claimed JSA, but the jobcentre staff kept asking me if I was SURE I was fit for work. I just said 'I am according to the doctor who did the medical! ' . It seems there is a gap as someone else metioned, between ESA and JSA.
divastrop is offline
Report Post
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to divastrop For This Useful Post: Show me >>
# 18
andyandflo
Old 27-06-2010, 10:28 PM
Serious MoneySaving Fan
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 785
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfreek1000 View Post
Yes.

The basics of the appeal is;

1, call and request appeal form
2, fill this in and get this sent back to them with in a month of the ESA decision.
3, wait for a tribunal date and gather evidence to support your case.

It's very important to lodge the appeal with in the time frame of a month from the decision. It doesn't have to be comprehensive as you have time (upto 2 weeks before tribunal date) to build a case based on your medical reports and the results of the ATOS report etc.

They will also need to continue to provide new fit notes from their doctor until the appeal is held.

When you send in the appeal form request all the info the DWP have used in the decision (forms, assessment (medical) reports etc) and also state that you wish to continue to be paid at the ESA assessment rate whilst you appeal.

If the person claims any other benefits (especially Council Tax & Housing benefit/LHA) you should call the relevant departments and ask if you need to inform them of this change.

Not sure about other benefits but the CT/HB/LHA will automatically suspend payment until a change of circumstance form is returned to them. ESA stopping = change of income which you need to tell them of. Same thing has to be done again once the appeal is lodged and ESA payments resume.

There's plenty of advice (some good some bad) on the net on appeals but I'd strongly advise that you contact someone for help.
Hi good advice, but there is one point I would make relating to the timing of when to submit your evidence. In fact there is no time limit. You can send the evidence at any time, but if it is close to the date of the hearing, there is nothing stopping you presenting it to the Tribunal on the day.
I keep on hearing about this '2 week limit' and can find no requirement anywhere that it has to be so. I have most of my evidence now and expect the hearing in August, but I would prefer to present my case 'using the evidence' to highlight my arguments one section at a time instead of it being buried in a mountain of documentation that may or may not be thoroughly read by the panel before the hearing. I have found no one that will help bring the evidence together and represent me so am hoping that I have done a good enough job!
If not, why worry. Because it will be more than 6 months by the time of the hearing since the DM decided I was fit for work, in which case I just apply for ESA again using the same illness and start the ball rolling once more until I do get the 'right decision!!

Last edited by andyandflo; 27-06-2010 at 10:33 PM.
andyandflo is offline
Report Post
# 19
healy
Old 27-06-2010, 10:34 PM
Fantastically Fervent MoneySaving Super Fan
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,719
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyandflo View Post
Hi good advice, but there is one point I would make relating to the timing of when to submit your evidence. In fact there is no time limit. You can send the evidence at any time, but if it is close to the date of the hearing, there is nothing stopping you presenting it to the Tribunal on the day.
I keep on hearing about this '2 week limit' and can find no requirement anywhere that it has to be so. I have most of my evidence now and expect the hearing in August, but I would prefer to present my case 'using the evidence' to highlight my arguments one section at a time instead of it being buried in a mountain of documentation that may or may not be thoroughly read by the panel before the hearing. I have found no one that will help bring the evidence together and represent me so am hoping that I have done a good enough job!
You can present written evidence on the day of the tribunal but if it is more than 2 or 3 pages the tribunal are not going to have time to read it. That is why you should send in lengthy written evidence to them at least 2 weeks beforehand.
healy is offline
Report Post
# 20
speedfreek1000
Old 27-06-2010, 10:38 PM
MoneySaving Stalwart
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 308
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by divastrop View Post
You have to phone and claim JSA yourself, or ESA. I failed my medical last month and I claimed JSA, but the jobcentre staff kept asking me if I was SURE I was fit for work. I just said 'I am according to the doctor who did the medical! ' . It seems there is a gap as someone else metioned, between ESA and JSA.
That's one choice the other is to appeal the decision and stay on ESA at the assessment rate (same rate you're on now) until tribunal.

The tribunal to hear your appeal will happen on average 6-9 months later due to the backlog being cause by the sheer volume of ESA appeals.
speedfreek1000 is offline
Report Post
The Following User Says Thank You to speedfreek1000 For This Useful Post: Show me >>
Closed Thread

Bookmarks
 
 




Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

 Forum Jump  

Contact Us - MoneySavingExpert.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 9:19 AM.

 Forum Jump  

Free MoneySaving Email

Top deals: Week of 16 April 2014

Get all this & more in MoneySavingExpert's weekly email full of guides, vouchers and Deals

GET THIS FREE WEEKLY EMAIL Full of deals, guides & it's spam free

Latest News & Blogs

Martin's Twitter Feed

profile
  • RT @MoneySavingExp: Weekly email:Free breaking bad, top shares ISA, HOT bband deal ending, 2.5% cash ISA, Tesco wine sale, £10 champers.. h?
  • RT @MoneySavingExp: Ovivo closure: MSE?s reported the mobile firm to authorities. If you?ve been affected, here?s how you can complain http?
  • Right switching off Twitter now. Going back offline. Thanks to those of both sides tweets for making it a more enjoyable watch.

Cheap Travel Money

Find the best online rate for holiday cash with MSE's TravelMoneyMax.

Find the best online rate for your holiday cash with MoneySavingExpert's TravelMoneyMax.

TuneChecker Top Albums

  • VARIOUS ARTISTSNOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL MUSIC! 87
  • VARIOUS ARTISTSULTIMATE CLUB ANTHEMS
  • THE VAMPSMEET THE VAMPS (DELUXE VERSION)

MSE's Twitter Feed

profile
Always remember anyone can post on the MSE forums, so it can be very different from our opinion.
We use Skimlinks and other affiliated links in some of our boards, for some of our users.