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  • dmg24
    • #2
    • 23rd Jun 10, 11:53 PM
    • #2
    • 23rd Jun 10, 11:53 PM
    Why have you been turned down for ESA? Did you fail the medical/ WCA? Do you feel fit for work?
  • dmg24
    • #3
    • 23rd Jun 10, 11:55 PM
    • #3
    • 23rd Jun 10, 11:55 PM
    Have just seen your other thread - if she does not feel fit for work she needs to appeal the ESA decision (assuming she received it recently). She needs to advise the JCP that she wishes to continue to receive the ESA Assessment Rate whilst the appeal is being considered.
  • eliza71
    • #4
    • 24th Jun 10, 9:45 AM
    • #4
    • 24th Jun 10, 9:45 AM
    esa refused because she didn't get enough points..... didn't get any in fact.. but feels she answered questions wrongly ie asked what time she gets up she said 7.30am.. thats to get her daughter to school.. didn't tell them she goes back to bed until her daughter gets home...cries for no reason and obviously not fit for job seeking but getting medical treatment and psycho therapy.... job centre told her that she has been assessed and HAS to seek employment in spite of this.. she has sent letter of appeal but meantime has no income
  • abhdad
    • #5
    • 24th Jun 10, 3:00 PM
    • #5
    • 24th Jun 10, 3:00 PM
    Eliza
    30 years work, then business bust, lost house, loads debts, Mum died, son with leukaemia, wife went off with someone else, bitter divorce, 3 kids in the middle. all in 18 months.
    No family or friends support, only GP
    JSA used to watch me come in and sign in tears, no help offered, one staff gave me some 0845 numbers which i couldn't cope with, so everything got stopped. I went 8 months with nothing. Now improving, but going thru all the same old battles again, which drag me backwards.
    What is ESA and who are you going to appeal to. The thing that keeps me going now is bitterness and anger, that i wasn't given help, and was left to sort myself out. I couln't even have typed this a year ago.
  • Hannah_10
    • #6
    • 24th Jun 10, 4:24 PM
    • #6
    • 24th Jun 10, 4:24 PM
    esa refused because she didn't get enough points..... didn't get any in fact.. but feels she answered questions wrongly ie asked what time she gets up she said 7.30am.. thats to get her daughter to school.. didn't tell them she goes back to bed until her daughter gets home...cries for no reason and obviously not fit for job seeking but getting medical treatment and psycho therapy.... job centre told her that she has been assessed and HAS to seek employment in spite of this.. she has sent letter of appeal but meantime has no income
    Originally posted by eliza71
    This happens a lot, it's all so very very British, stiff upper lip and all that. The trouble is the stiff upper lip approach masks the truth and the truth was what they needed to see.

    If she talks to her Dr about how life is for her she may be allocated a CPN (community psychiatric nurse) or social worker. Don't worry about the social worker, they're from the adult team not the child team, there is no way they will take the child away, they're there to put Mum back on her feet. Taking the child away wouldn't be right for the child (and anyway it costs hundreds a week to put a child in foster care), whereas helping Mum is probably a matter of continued support a few hours a week. It's normal for a mum with depression to fear losing her kids if she asks for help, but actually it's the opposite. Depression tends to be progressive and worsen over time. I know you called this severe, but this is far from the lowest depths a depression could sink her to, she needs to understand that where she is is currently in the middle and she needs to opt for up rather than down and get support before things do turn into her fears and she does lose the little one.

    If she is assigned some comminuty assistance, be that a CPN or social worker (they all work together anyway, so whichever she has they'll be on the same side) that person will help her appeal her benefits and get what is fairly due. Thier position means they are taken a lot more seriously by the benefits agency than just her alone. Also when depressed she probably doesn't have the energy to fight these battles herself. But she has a daughter to support and so she needs to call in the pro's to help her asap.

    Tell her to get an urgent Dr's appointment and pour her heart out and ask for an urgent call from the CMHT (community mental health team, where the CPNs and social workers work) it truly is the best thing she could do now.
  • dookar
    • #7
    • 24th Jun 10, 11:27 PM
    • #7
    • 24th Jun 10, 11:27 PM
    Why has the JSA been stopped? Not due to illness, surely?
  • Googlewhacker
    • #8
    • 24th Jun 10, 11:46 PM
    • #8
    • 24th Jun 10, 11:46 PM
    Eliza
    30 years work, then business bust, lost house, loads debts, Mum died, son with leukaemia, wife went off with someone else, bitter divorce, 3 kids in the middle. all in 18 months.
    No family or friends support, only GP
    JSA used to watch me come in and sign in tears, no help offered, one staff gave me some 0845 numbers which i couldn't cope with, so everything got stopped. I went 8 months with nothing. Now improving, but going thru all the same old battles again, which drag me backwards.
    What is ESA and who are you going to appeal to. The thing that keeps me going now is bitterness and anger, that i wasn't given help, and was left to sort myself out. I couln't even have typed this a year ago.
    Originally posted by abhdad
    Sounds aweful and I would not wish it on anyone but did you actually ask for any help?
    The Googlewhacker referance is to Dave Gorman and not to my opinion of the search engine!

    If I give you advice it is only a view and always always take professional advice before acting!!!

    4 people on the ignore list....Bliss!
  • speedfreek1000
    • #9
    • 25th Jun 10, 7:50 AM
    • #9
    • 25th Jun 10, 7:50 AM
    what happens if you have been turned down for esa, your jsa has been stopped but yr doctor still says you are not fit for work because of severe depressive illness ?
    Originally posted by eliza71
    ESA is tricky especially for mental health illnesses.

    You really need to contact your local DIAL http://www.dialuk.info/ and ask for assistance. Also look for a local welfare rights organisation or CAB.

    All these provide advice and assistance in claiming benefits, filling out forms and lodging appeals.

    Now your ESA when were you turned down?

    If you are still within a month of the decision call them and request an appeal form (it's called a GL24 form) or you can download it if times pressing.

    Time is of the essence here so you need to get this form and get advice a.s.a.p.

    You should also look at the DLA benefit and get advice to see if you meet the criteria for it.

    Remember often with a mental health illness the illness itself effects how you perceive yourself and the therefore the problems you experience. This is why it's vital to get help of people experienced in mental health and benefits.

    @ abhdad it's a benefit based on your 'Fitness to Work' or lack of it.
  • Mojisola
    There does seem to be a gap between JSA and ESA. Last week our local radio was discussing a man with ME who had been passed as fit at a medical and so had lost his ESA. JSA was being refused because his GP has said that he is not fit to work and so he wasn't "available for and actively seeking work".

    There are a lot of conditions - physical and mental - where someone can do all that's asked of them in a medical but, unless the effect of doing those things repeatedly during the day, day after day, is taken into account, it gives a false view of their capabilities.

    The OP needs to get help from an advisor to put in an appeal.
  • eliza71
    thank you all so much .. iknow she has written a letter to say she wants to appeal but didn't even know that there was a special form .... took me 5 hours to help her fill in the last one so good to know her cpn might be able to help with this .... after a 3 month wait she has finally got an appointment.. would u believe i used to work for dss but resigned after paying someon out of my own pocket i was so disgusted with the system .. and that was back in 1980!!!! it's even worse now but i do feel that maybe too many people r abusing the system and thats what makes it so difficult for genuine cases.. tks for help and wish everyone a good and uncomplicated future xx
  • speedfreek1000
    Yes.

    The basics of the appeal is;

    1, call and request appeal form
    2, fill this in and get this sent back to them with in a month of the ESA decision.
    3, wait for a tribunal date and gather evidence to support your case.

    It's very important to lodge the appeal with in the time frame of a month from the decision. It doesn't have to be comprehensive as you have time (upto 2 weeks before tribunal date) to build a case based on your medical reports and the results of the ATOS report etc.

    They will also need to continue to provide new fit notes from their doctor until the appeal is held.

    When you send in the appeal form request all the info the DWP have used in the decision (forms, assessment (medical) reports etc) and also state that you wish to continue to be paid at the ESA assessment rate whilst you appeal.

    If the person claims any other benefits (especially Council Tax & Housing benefit/LHA) you should call the relevant departments and ask if you need to inform them of this change.

    Not sure about other benefits but the CT/HB/LHA will automatically suspend payment until a change of circumstance form is returned to them. ESA stopping = change of income which you need to tell them of. Same thing has to be done again once the appeal is lodged and ESA payments resume.

    There's plenty of advice (some good some bad) on the net on appeals but I'd strongly advise that you contact someone for help.
  • eliza71
    tks speedfreak... very concise and helpful.. but could u pls tell me what does ATOS stand for ??
  • speedfreek1000
    tks speedfreak... very concise and helpful.. but could u pls tell me what does ATOS stand for ??
    Originally posted by eliza71
    I'm assuming they would have gone for what is loosely termed a medical assessment after submitting the application forms?

    ATOS is the company who perform these tests for the DWP and produce a report which is given to the person @ the DWP who decides the case.

    http://www.atoshealthcare.com/

    These reports are often the sole basis for the decision so you will need to go through it and dispute it as part of the appeal.
  • NASA
    There is no need to get an appeal form. It can be done in a letter simply stating 'I wish to appeal against......' and the details of the decision you wish to appeal against.
  • allan2006
    what happens if u fail the medical, dont they automatically move you onto jobseekers allowance. Surely if they say your cant recieve esa they must place you on jsa??
  • divastrop
    You have to phone and claim JSA yourself, or ESA. I failed my medical last month and I claimed JSA, but the jobcentre staff kept asking me if I was SURE I was fit for work. I just said 'I am according to the doctor who did the medical! ' . It seems there is a gap as someone else metioned, between ESA and JSA.
  • andyandflo
    Yes.

    The basics of the appeal is;

    1, call and request appeal form
    2, fill this in and get this sent back to them with in a month of the ESA decision.
    3, wait for a tribunal date and gather evidence to support your case.

    It's very important to lodge the appeal with in the time frame of a month from the decision. It doesn't have to be comprehensive as you have time (upto 2 weeks before tribunal date) to build a case based on your medical reports and the results of the ATOS report etc.

    They will also need to continue to provide new fit notes from their doctor until the appeal is held.

    When you send in the appeal form request all the info the DWP have used in the decision (forms, assessment (medical) reports etc) and also state that you wish to continue to be paid at the ESA assessment rate whilst you appeal.

    If the person claims any other benefits (especially Council Tax & Housing benefit/LHA) you should call the relevant departments and ask if you need to inform them of this change.

    Not sure about other benefits but the CT/HB/LHA will automatically suspend payment until a change of circumstance form is returned to them. ESA stopping = change of income which you need to tell them of. Same thing has to be done again once the appeal is lodged and ESA payments resume.

    There's plenty of advice (some good some bad) on the net on appeals but I'd strongly advise that you contact someone for help.
    Originally posted by speedfreek1000
    Hi good advice, but there is one point I would make relating to the timing of when to submit your evidence. In fact there is no time limit. You can send the evidence at any time, but if it is close to the date of the hearing, there is nothing stopping you presenting it to the Tribunal on the day.
    I keep on hearing about this '2 week limit' and can find no requirement anywhere that it has to be so. I have most of my evidence now and expect the hearing in August, but I would prefer to present my case 'using the evidence' to highlight my arguments one section at a time instead of it being buried in a mountain of documentation that may or may not be thoroughly read by the panel before the hearing. I have found no one that will help bring the evidence together and represent me so am hoping that I have done a good enough job!
    If not, why worry. Because it will be more than 6 months by the time of the hearing since the DM decided I was fit for work, in which case I just apply for ESA again using the same illness and start the ball rolling once more until I do get the 'right decision!!
    Last edited by andyandflo; 27-06-2010 at 10:33 PM.
  • healy
    Hi good advice, but there is one point I would make relating to the timing of when to submit your evidence. In fact there is no time limit. You can send the evidence at any time, but if it is close to the date of the hearing, there is nothing stopping you presenting it to the Tribunal on the day.
    I keep on hearing about this '2 week limit' and can find no requirement anywhere that it has to be so. I have most of my evidence now and expect the hearing in August, but I would prefer to present my case 'using the evidence' to highlight my arguments one section at a time instead of it being buried in a mountain of documentation that may or may not be thoroughly read by the panel before the hearing. I have found no one that will help bring the evidence together and represent me so am hoping that I have done a good enough job!
    Originally posted by andyandflo
    You can present written evidence on the day of the tribunal but if it is more than 2 or 3 pages the tribunal are not going to have time to read it. That is why you should send in lengthy written evidence to them at least 2 weeks beforehand.
  • speedfreek1000
    You have to phone and claim JSA yourself, or ESA. I failed my medical last month and I claimed JSA, but the jobcentre staff kept asking me if I was SURE I was fit for work. I just said 'I am according to the doctor who did the medical! ' . It seems there is a gap as someone else metioned, between ESA and JSA.
    Originally posted by divastrop
    That's one choice the other is to appeal the decision and stay on ESA at the assessment rate (same rate you're on now) until tribunal.

    The tribunal to hear your appeal will happen on average 6-9 months later due to the backlog being cause by the sheer volume of ESA appeals.
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