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Central heating turning on by itself
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# 1
slipthru
Old 02-02-2010, 7:56 AM
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Unhappy Central heating turning on by itself

I have Ideal icos boiler with a hot water cylinder and timer switch in a bedroom upstairs, it sometimes turns on in the middle of the night when the timer is switched of and the temp control is turned down. Now it has started not turning the heating off when the timer turns of at 10pm, i have to turn the temp stat down to get the boiler to switch off.

What could be the problem?
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# 2
david29dpo
Old 02-02-2010, 8:31 AM
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Sounds like the timers duff.
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# 3
DrScotsman
Old 02-02-2010, 8:50 AM
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I don't know about the second problem, but I can tell you my Ideal's manual says that if the temperature gets too cold then it'll turn itself on so the pipes don't freeze. Might explain it turning on in the middle of the night for you.
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# 4
millie
Old 02-02-2010, 8:52 AM
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Is it heating up the radiators because we used to have a Valliant combination boiler and there was a function that allowed the storage of a small tank of hot water, I asume because we had to run the water for quite a time to get it hot. With the small storage tank it was instant like an immersion heater. After we had it serviced we noticed that it kept lighting up for a few minutes ocassionally during the night (as the boiler was in the airing cuboard. We called the engineer back and there is a switch to turn this operation on and off and he had left it switched on. So perhaps that is the problem if you have this on your boiler. It was keeping this small tank of water up to the temperature the thermosat setting.
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# 5
slipthru
Old 02-02-2010, 9:17 AM
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Thanks for all the replies, it's actually a new system to us as we only moved in a few months ago.

I wasn't aware that ideal boilers had frost protection built in (will have to scan the manual again), I had read about frost stats but can't find one in the house, the boiler is situated in the kitchen though which has no radiator and gets quite cold compared to the rest of the house so I guess that could be a reason.

Apart from the on/off switch there are no other switches on the boiler, so not sure that it has another small tank of hot water.

I forgot to mention that there is a ticking in the airing cupboard in the bedroom when the timers switch on in the morning and evening, this is how I knew it was switching on in the middle of the night.
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# 6
gas4you
Old 02-02-2010, 10:40 AM
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Never known an Ideal boiler to have frost protection as yet.

This sounds more like a stuck zone valve. You will either have 2 x 2 port valves or 1 x 3 port valve.

Could be just the microswitch in the acuator head has broken and stuck on.

It is these valves that tell the boiler to come on, not the programmer or thermostats.
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# 7
slipthru
Old 02-02-2010, 11:30 AM
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Thanks for your reply gas4you have had another look in the cupboard and can see a drayton mid port valve actuator ma1, is it something simple to take a look at to see if it's stuck?
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# 8
gas4you
Old 02-02-2010, 11:36 AM
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It could be the acuator head that is at fault, and as you say your system is new I would tend to go for this rather than the valve body stuck.

The only way you can definately tell is to test the wires off the valve with a multimeter.

However, due to the voltage being 240VAC, I would not advise anyone testing this themselves unless they are safe and competent to work with live electric.

240 can kill
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# 9
slipthru
Old 02-02-2010, 11:45 AM
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Thanks for your help, it's not new new, it's about three years old according to the previous owners, it's new to us as we just bought the house a few months ago, the flat we lived in before had a combi boiler so I didn't know anything about this kind of heating system.

By the sounds of it I should call a heating engineer out to take a look, I've never dealt with electrics before.
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# 10
gas4you
Old 02-02-2010, 11:47 AM
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Thats sensible.

Whoever you call, tell them the make and model. They should be able to bring one with them for a first time fix.

If they dont need it they can always take it back.
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# 11
slipthru
Old 02-02-2010, 4:44 PM
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I've been quoted £125 for the parts and labour, does this sound ok?
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# 12
keith969
Old 02-02-2010, 5:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gas4you View Post
Never known an Ideal boiler to have frost protection as yet.

This sounds more like a stuck zone valve. You will either have 2 x 2 port valves or 1 x 3 port valve.

Could be just the microswitch in the acuator head has broken and stuck on.

It is these valves that tell the boiler to come on, not the programmer or thermostats.
Huh? A zone valve is controlled by the programmer, it doesn't tell the boiler when to turn on/off, the programmer and thermostats do. Sounds more like the programmer is faulty.
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# 13
slipthru
Old 02-02-2010, 5:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith969 View Post
Huh? A zone valve is controlled by the programmer, it doesn't tell the boiler when to turn on/off, the programmer and thermostats do. Sounds more like the programmer is faulty.
The programmer has just switched on but the thermostat is switched right down but the heating has come on?

Forgot to add that if I turn the water off on the programmer that heating goes of too until I turn the thermostat up.
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# 14
keith969
Old 02-02-2010, 5:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipthru View Post
The programmer has just switched on but the thermostat is switched right down but the heating has come on?

Forgot to add that if I turn the water off on the programmer that heating goes of too until I turn the thermostat up.
Which thermostat? The room one, one on the hot water tank or what? And what do you have the programmer set to - HW only, HW+CH, or off ?

If the programmer is set to HW only and the room thermostat turned right down but the rads still get warm, then it could be a stuck diverter valve.

If you turn the programmer to off (neither CH or HW) and the boiler still comes on when you turn the room thermostat up, then it implies the programmer is faulty.
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# 15
slipthru
Old 02-02-2010, 6:01 PM
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The heating (and hot water I assume) come on randomly at night when the the programmer is set to off for both and the room thermostat which is situated in the hall is turned right down. When this happens a ticking noise starts in the airing cupboard. as far as i can tell it only happens when the valve is in the mid position.

Yesterday for the first time the central heating stayed on after the timer had turned itself off. I have checked today and if I turn the thermostat up in the hall the heating comes on without the timer being switched on.
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# 16
keith969
Old 02-02-2010, 6:17 PM
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Well it does sound like your programmer is faulty. You can probably replace this yourself, what make is it?

Just being pedantic, but what you refer to as a programmer and a timer are one and the same thing, right?
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# 17
slipthru
Old 02-02-2010, 6:27 PM
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Yes i am talking about the the same thing, It's a lifestyle Lp112.

I have just put the hot water on and turned the heating off on the timer and the heating is also on. I just checked the mid port valve actuator and it is in the middle although it is not ticking for once.

I thought it would be in w postion for hot water only.
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# 18
gas4you
Old 02-02-2010, 7:06 PM
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The programmer and room thermostat control the 3 port valve.

When the motor moves to allow ch, the microswitch is made to tell the boiler to fire.

The power for the boiler when on HW comes from the cylinder stat.

Basic stuff for those who know.

Faulty valve or valve head.

£125 is good to supply and fit a new one. These Drayton ones are less reliable and more expensive than others.
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