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  • FIRST POST
    book12
    JSA: job log alternative
    • #1
    • 23rd Dec 09, 6:25 PM
    JSA: job log alternative 23rd Dec 09 at 6:25 PM
    Went to my second weekly sign-on after the 13 week review. Today, I've been told from now on that I don't need to fill in the job log (ES4JP), that I used to use.

    Instead, I will fill in the following sheet with the title 'Actively Seeking Employment', which has the following questions:

    1. During the period from (insert date) to (insert date) did you take any steps to find work? If yes, please answer q. 2-7, then sign and date the form. If no, please sign and date the form

    2. Did you use the JC to look for jobs? If yes, please tick which method (s) of contact you used: a) job points b) job seekers direct c) JC website

    2 a) on what dates(s) did you visit/contact them?

    3. Which newspapers did you check for jobs

    3. a) on what date(s) did you visit or contact them?

    4. What employment agencies, if any, are you registered with?

    4. a) on what dates did you visit or contact them?

    5. What other steps did ou take to find work?

    5. a) on what date(s) did you take these steps?

    6. With the goals listed on your Jsag, please list the jobs you applied for (a table with the columns: name/address of employer, where it was advertised, how did you contact the employer?, type of work, date applied, result)

    7. If you haven't applied for any jobs, please explain why not

    8. Please give details of any other jobs that you have applied for, other than those noted on Jsag. (a table with the columns mentioned in q.6)


    I was wondering why would they change the format of the job log. It seems so intense now, and want to know more about your job hunt in more detail.

    Also, is this only for people on 13 and 26 week reviews?
Page 1
  • busy mom
    • #2
    • 23rd Dec 09, 7:22 PM
    • #2
    • 23rd Dec 09, 7:22 PM
    Have they told you that they feel you are not taking enough steps to look for work? Jobseekers must take a minimum of 3 steps each week to secure employment. These steps must also give you reasonable steps of finding employment. If you have been putting down every week 'checked internet, newspapers etc' but not actually applying for jobs or sending spec C.V. then these are not reasonable steps.
    The Form you have been given is a form that would be sent to a decision maker if they feel that you are not taking reasonable steps each week. A decision maker will look at the form then decide whether you will be paid for each week or not. These forms can be used at any time in a claim, they are not usually issed to you in advance you normally fill it in on your signing day, they suspend you beneift till the decision maker decided whether you have taken reasonable steps and then after 2/3 days you will be notified as to whether or not you will get paid.
  • book12
    • #3
    • 23rd Dec 09, 7:48 PM
    • #3
    • 23rd Dec 09, 7:48 PM
    They haven't told me anything. They just gave the sheet to me.

    Also, in my job log, every week, I've been applying 1-2 jobs, as well as looking on the internet/newspapers, as well as writing speculative letters. These things are mentioned on my Jsag, and have been following them.

    I signed-on with a different person today. Would my usual person who signs me on know I've been given this sheet to fill in? Is it recorded on the system?
    Last edited by book12; 23-12-2009 at 7:53 PM.
  • busy mom
    • #4
    • 23rd Dec 09, 7:55 PM
    • #4
    • 23rd Dec 09, 7:55 PM
    They haven't told me anything. They just gave the sheet to me.

    Also, in my job log, every week, I've been applying 1-2 jobs, as well as looking on the internet/newspapers, as well as writing speculative letters. These sttuff are mentioned on my Jsag, and have been following them.
    Originally posted by book12

    You have no worries, jobcentre have targets to refer to a decision maker so perhaps your office is a little low on ASE (actively seeking employment) referrals so are trying to find some. As long as you are looking and applying for jobs you have no worries. They are probably issuing the forms in the hope that some people will return them not filled in very well then they will send them off. Not the best way to do it really. My staff as each and every one and those who haven't taken the steps are done there and then. Stricter benefit regime works on those who don't really want a job and use the excuse 'there are no jobs at the moment' line.

    Fingers crossed you have some luck in the new year, please don't feel picked on you are one of many from your office I suspect.
  • dookar
    • #5
    • 23rd Dec 09, 8:16 PM
    • #5
    • 23rd Dec 09, 8:16 PM
    It certainly looks like a stencil used for ASE doubts, fill it in detailing exactly what youdid during the weeks in question.

    And complain to the office manager
  • book12
    • #6
    • 23rd Dec 09, 10:10 PM
    • #6
    • 23rd Dec 09, 10:10 PM
    It certainly looks like a stencil used for ASE doubts, fill it in detailing exactly what youdid during the weeks in question.

    And complain to the office manager
    Originally posted by dookar
    Yes, I will fill it in detail. Would they check the stuff to see if I really did that particualr thing (e.g. looked in those websites/newspapers, enquired agenices, applied for jobs, etc...)?

    I would be telling the truth when writing down the stuff on the sheet.

    Why complain to the office manger?

    You have no worries, jobcentre have targets to refer to a decision maker so perhaps your office is a little low on ASE (actively seeking employment) referrals so are trying to find some. As long as you are looking and applying for jobs you have no worries. They are probably issuing the forms in the hope that some people will return them not filled in very well then they will send them off. Not the best way to do it really. My staff as each and every one and those who haven't taken the steps are done there and then. Stricter benefit regime works on those who don't really want a job and use the excuse 'there are no jobs at the moment' line.

    Fingers crossed you have some luck in the new year, please don't feel picked on you are one of many from your office I suspect.
    Originally posted by busy mom
    I will definately filling in the form.

    Do I get a letter back saying if I'm eligible (or not eligible) to continue receiving benefits? I'm worried that I will not be eligible, and therefore, no JSA forever. If that happens, I don't go sign-on ever again? If I don't get paid, that means I'm signed-off of JSA? I can't go on New Deal? etc...
  • dookar
    • #7
    • 23rd Dec 09, 10:25 PM
    • #7
    • 23rd Dec 09, 10:25 PM
    Yes, I will fill it in detail. Would they check the stuff to see if I really did that particualr thing (e.g. looked in those websites/newspapers, enquired agenices, applied for jobs, etc...)?

    I would be telling the truth when writing down the stuff on the sheet.

    Why complain to the office manger?
    Originally posted by book12
    It is enshrined in case law that a claimant must be believed unless there is reason to doubt what they say. A decision maker will take your statement at face value unless it is contradictory or the job centre staff provide information which would cast doubt on it.

    You should complain because it seems, from busy mom's post, that you are being subjected to some shady campaign of vexatious DM referrals. I am shocked that any DM would allow that to continue but if they are you should complain.


    I will definately filling in the form.

    Do I get a letter back saying if I'm eligible (or not eligible) to continue receiving benefits? I'm worried that I will not be eligible, and therefore, no JSA forever. If that happens, I don't go sign-on ever again? If I don't get paid, that means I'm signed-off of JSA? I can't go on New Deal? etc...
    Originally posted by book12
    The doubt is only for the weeks in question, should you receive and adverse decision the disallowance will be for those weeks and all other weeks will be unaffected
  • book12
    • #8
    • 23rd Dec 09, 10:44 PM
    • #8
    • 23rd Dec 09, 10:44 PM
    It is enshrined in case law that a claimant must be believed unless there is reason to doubt what they say. A decision maker will take your statement at face value unless it is contradictory or the job centre staff provide information which would cast doubt on it.

    You should complain because it seems, from busy mom's post, that you are being subjected to some shady campaign of vexatious DM referrals. I am shocked that any DM would allow that to continue but if they are you should complain.

    The doubt is only for the weeks in question, should you receive and adverse decision the disallowance will be for those weeks and all other weeks will be unaffected
    Originally posted by dookar
    The sheet said it's for the period between 24/12/2009 to 6/1/2010.

    It's good that my JSA won't be stopped 'all together' if they think the stuff wrote on the sheet isn't good enough. If they think the stuff I wrote is not sufficient, at least no payment of 101.90. Hopefully, I won't have to fill in that sheet every again.

    I will be doing a bit more than what my Jsag says at the moment.

    I will give the sheet to the sign-on person, and then he/she will give it to the DM. Or can the sign-on people be a DM? :confused:

    How do I know if I get my money or not? Do I get a letter to say if I'm eligible or something like that?
  • dookar
    • #9
    • 23rd Dec 09, 10:55 PM
    • #9
    • 23rd Dec 09, 10:55 PM
    Oh right, no, it's not what we thought then it actually is just a jobsearch record sheet. Nothing to worry about, fill it in or not, up to you
  • book12
    Oh right, no, it's not what we thought then it actually is just a jobsearch record sheet. Nothing to worry about, fill it in or not, up to you
    Originally posted by dookar
    Ok then. I will fill it in, as I don't have another copy of the job log.

    Thanks for the confirmation. I hope 'busy mum' would agree with you that it's a jobsearch record sheet.

    By the way, did you fill in one of those too?
  • dookar
    By the way, did you fill in one of those too?
    Originally posted by book12
    No I looked at them and decided whether people should get their money or not
  • book12
    No I looked at them and decided whether people should get their money or not
    Originally posted by dookar
    I assume you work for the JC like 'busy mom'.

    Oh yeah, there is a space where I need to fill in my name, NI number at the beginning of the sheet. I think the signature and date part is for the staff to sign and date.

    Why do I need to fill in personal details on the job log? I thought it's not given the the DM as you said previously? Why is the job search sheet so detailed now?
  • Cozworth806
    I would be careful not to say that you may not a ongoing sanction if it is felt that you are not actively jobseeking.
    As a first time disallowance it is likely only to be for the weeks stated, but if it carried on then you may get a longer period, which can be up to 6 months.
    As mentioned you simply have to be exact and clear about the steps taken but it seems harsh when the JCP is shut for most of the time that your form covers.
    Nothing to see here
  • book12
    I would be careful not to say that you may not a ongoing sanction if it is felt that you are not actively jobseeking.
    As a first time disallowance it is likely only to be for the weeks stated, but if it carried on then you may get a longer period, which can be up to 6 months.
    As mentioned you simply have to be exact and clear about the steps taken but it seems harsh when the JCP is shut for most of the time that your form covers.
    Originally posted by Cozworth806
    On my original joblog (ES4JP), I did write done exactly and clear about the steps taken to find/apply for a job.

    I was given that sheet to fill in, without any explaination of why I need it or anything like that.

    One of the sign-on staff recommended a job, which I didn't take, as I don't have experience in it. I've told them the truth about me having no experience in that job. So I was wondering if this is the reason for giving me that sheet. If I taken it, maybe they won't give me that sheet.? I don't know...:confused:

    I hope I won't have to fill in that form again for the future periods of my sign-on.
  • dookar
    I would be careful not to say that you may not a ongoing sanction if it is felt that you are not actively jobseeking.
    As a first time disallowance it is likely only to be for the weeks stated, but if it carried on then you may get a longer period, which can be up to 6 months.
    As mentioned you simply have to be exact and clear about the steps taken but it seems harsh when the JCP is shut for most of the time that your form covers.
    Originally posted by Cozworth806

    It's an entitlement question, not a sanction question. A disallowance will be for the week(s) the OP is deemed to not be ASE, no more no less and there is no upper duration.

    Regarding job centres and potential employers) being closed, this will be taken into account -

    In order to have the best chance of getting employment claimants are expected to
    have to take more than two steps in any week unless taking one or two steps is all that it is reasonable for them to do in that week .
  • dookar

    One of the sign-on staff recommended a job, which I didn't take, as I don't have experience in it. I've told them the truth about me having no experience in that job. So I was wondering if this is the reason for giving me that sheet. If I taken it, maybe they won't give me that sheet.? I don't know...:confused:
    Originally posted by book12
    I woudn't have thought so, refual of empoyment is very different from ASE, evidence to support one may have nothing to do with the other
  • book12
    I've been told to fill in that form again.

    I asked them why I have to fill in that form again. They said it's a new version of the job log, and it's more logical / bette than the old version.
  • KimYeovil
    You have thirteen days, twenty-three hours and fifty-three minutes between signings to carry out the job search activities and take a note of them. Shouldn't be hard to complete the form if you are actively seeking work.
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