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  • FIRST POST
    Simon.G
    Littlewoods problem, Email address wanted & advice please...
    • #1
    • 3rd Dec 09, 11:01 AM
    Littlewoods problem, Email address wanted & advice please... 3rd Dec 09 at 11:01 AM
    First time poster, long term lurker

    To cut a long story short, I purchased an Apple Mac from Littlewoods at the beginning of October, along with the extended warranty and two external hard drives. The Littlewoods advert clearly stated that the machine came with the latest operating system. On the day of delivery I booted up the computer and noticed that the old system was installed. I checked the contents of the box and there was no sign of the new software, in fact the restore discs that accompanied the computer included the older operating system.

    I called Littlewoods about an hour after receiving the computer and lodged my complaint. The call center operative apologised and said they would get in contact with Apple and get them to send out the correct software.

    Two days later the two hard drives arrive, both dead on arrival and these were sent back a day later (these have been accepted and credited back to the account already). I had to purchase other units external to Littlewoods.

    To cut a very long story short, regarding the missing software, I have had two deliveries from Apple (although it has to be noted that this is not Apples problem but Littlewoods dont seem to care about that). Both deliveries contained the software I was supposed to get, but on recordable media (not official media as I should have got originally) making the discs themselves worthless and not as described in the Littlewoods advert. Littlewoods have told me to go to an Apple store myself to get it sorted (but my contract si with Littlewoods not Apple) As Littlewoods stock the software as a separate item (value 30) I asked them 4 weeks ago to supply it in full and final resolution to the problem however this was flatly denied and have been told on two occasions that I should take legal advice. I have also had conversations with staff and management that have not been noted on their systems meaning that I have had to spend more time and effort explaining the situation over and over again to each new operative.

    Two days ago I, via an Aftercare Manager, was offered the software from Littlewoods stock (the same software that was refused 4 weeks earlier) at no cost to me (although it should have been included with the system anyway) and a 5% discount on the value of the system.

    After talking to Consumer Direct I have confirmed that Littlewoods are in breach of contract under the Sale Of Goods Act and I am entitled to a full refund, which is what I want, even though it has been over 2 months since I have received the item. They believe I have given Littlewoods "reasonable time" to resolve the problem. Only when I have threatened legal action have Littlewoods decided to take ownership of the problem, however their lame attempt to save the sale is a too little too late.

    Today I called them to get an address so I could send an official letter to them with reference to the Sale Of Goods Act and their breach of contract and was told that I would have to send it to Anthony Baldwin, the Customer Experience Director as Littlewoods had never come across someone wanting to take the legal route to resolve a problem before (please! its comical!) and so I am here to see if anyone has Anthony's email address and to ask for any other advice really.

    As it stands, Littlewoods are not agreeing to the fact that they are in breach of contract and in breach of the Sale Of Goods Act (although Consumer Direct believe they are), and that if I want anything other than what I have been offered, I will have to go down the legal route.

    I have a timeline of calls, names etc and a copy of the original advertisment from Littlewoods.

    Any help or advice you can give will be appreciated.

    Regards
    Simon
    Last edited by Simon.G; 03-12-2009 at 11:34 AM.
Page 1
  • Simon.G
    • #2
    • 3rd Dec 09, 11:10 AM
    • #2
    • 3rd Dec 09, 11:10 AM
    Update - Just called Customer Experience (0844 8224616) and asked for the address / email address of Anthony Baldwin and someone from his team are apparently going to look into the problem and will get back to me.

    I'm not holding my breath, in fact knowing how much money they are making on the sale I would expect them to come back with a sale saving package of more than the original 5%, either that or they will tell me to go down the legal route, which I simply don't want to do but feel that I might be forced to

    Regards
    Simon
  • Anihilator
    • #3
    • 3rd Dec 09, 11:35 AM
    • #3
    • 3rd Dec 09, 11:35 AM
    Sorry but why exactly is 5% and the software not good enough for you?

    Beware consumer direct talk a lot of !!!! and I doubt any small claims court would be exactly sympathetic to your plight when the SOGA has been met ( a refund, repair or replacement) as you are now able to be in receipt of the software and a discount hence you arent mitigating your losses if you take it further.
  • Simon.G
    • #4
    • 3rd Dec 09, 11:46 AM
    • #4
    • 3rd Dec 09, 11:46 AM
    I had every right to refuse the machine at time of delivery, which in hindsight I should have done, however I gave the retailer the benefit of the doubt to resolve the problem, which in the space of two months it would seem they simply could not.

    Firstly, two months is simply not acceptable and is more than "reasonable time" to resolve a problem, I would find it hard to believe that someone may find it acceptable to question that. Secondly, the way the situation has been handled is far from satisfactory and my faith in the company has been lost. If they cannot resolve a small problem in an acceptable amount of time, what confidence does that give me if there is a bigger problem somewhere down the line?

    Apart from S.13 Sale By Description which has not been met (so therefore in breach of contract) why should I accept anything other than what I am entitled to? I am entitled to a refund a repair or a replacement as per the SOGA, and for the reasons stated above I wish to have a refund so that I can take my money to a company that might actually appreciate the custom. It does not state in SOGA that I have to accept what they offer me, but that I am entitled to one of the three.

    Its not about the money, otherwise I would have accepted the discount, its about the pure principle of the thing and that companies such as Littlewoods think they can operate outside of the law at a time and place that suits them.

    Regards
    Simon
  • Anihilator
    • #5
    • 3rd Dec 09, 11:49 AM
    • #5
    • 3rd Dec 09, 11:49 AM
    I had every right to refuse the machine at time of delivery, which in hindsight I should have done, however I gave the retailer the benefit of the doubt to resolve the problem, which in the space of two months it would seem they simply could not.

    Firstly, two months is simply not acceptable and is more than "reasonable time" to resolve a problem, I would find it hard to believe that someone may find it acceptable to question that. Secondly, the way the situation has been handled is far from satisfactory and my faith in the company has been lost. If they cannot resolve a small problem in an acceptable amount of time, what confidence does that give me if there is a bigger problem somewhere down the line?

    Apart from S.13 Sale By Description which has not been met (so therefore in breach of contract) why should I accept anything other than what I am entitled to? I am entitled to a refund a repair or a replacement as per the SOGA, and for the reasons stated above I wish to have a refund so that I can take my money to a company that might actually appreciate the custom. It does not state in SOGA that I have to accept what they offer me, but that I am entitled to one of the three.

    Its not about the money, otherwise I would have accepted the discount, its about the pure principle of the thing and that companies such as Littlewoods think they can operate outside of the law at a time and place that suits them.

    Regards
    Simon
    Originally posted by Simon.G
    You chose not to reject it though and are now being offered the software immediately with compensation. You will be wasting a courts time and I doubt they would find in your favour now given the situation has been resolved by littlewoods.

    You need to understand the law in full and obligations to mitigate losses and such like, taking needless court action will not go down well and in actual fact could lead to you being liable for costs.
  • Simon.G
    • #6
    • 3rd Dec 09, 12:06 PM
    • #6
    • 3rd Dec 09, 12:06 PM
    You chose not to reject it though and are now being offered the software immediately with compensation.
    Well its hardly immediately is it, I had to wait two months after Littlewoods had not taken ownership of the problem, insisting that I had to run around myself and get Apple to send me the missing software when it was Littlewoods problem in the first place; then to have conversations not recorded on the account meaning spending more time having to explain the situation at my cost; having the replacement software refused to me only to be told 4 weeks afterwards that they will now do it as I have threatened legal measures.

    Let me get this right, a company can advertise a product, agree to supply it, send something different, spend two months taking no responsibility for the problem, being offered a way out to my satisfaction and not to their detriment but refusing that option and then when they feel like it, some four weeks later decide that the resolution I offered them was in fact a decent one and that they would like to take up on it because they now realise that they are in the wrong and to compond their guilt they are willing to offer 5% discount to shut me up, sorry to be wrapped up as a "goodwill gesture".

    So they can do what they want, when they want and as a paying customer I have to accept whatever they say and run along like a good little boy do I?

    You will be wasting a courts time and I doubt they would find in your favour now given the situation has been resolved by littlewoods.
    I have been more than accommodating during this entire fiasco even offering a resolution 4 weeks ago that they flatly refused to take up. Now they are offering a resolution and I am refusing it. What's the difference, and where does it state that the problem is resolved? Surely its only resolved when both parties agree to the solution?

    Regards
    Simon
    Last edited by Simon.G; 03-12-2009 at 12:12 PM.
  • Littlemiss27
    • #7
    • 3rd Dec 09, 12:07 PM
    • #7
    • 3rd Dec 09, 12:07 PM
    I am entitled to a refund a repair or a replacement as per the SOGA, and for the reasons stated above I wish to have a refund so that I can take my money to a company that might actually appreciate the custom. It does not state in SOGA that I have to accept what they offer me, but that I am entitled to one of the three.
    Originally posted by Simon.G
    I thought that after the goods had been accepted it was the choice of the retailer which remedy (repair/replace/refund) they offered.

    I might be wrong though.
  • Anihilator
    • #8
    • 3rd Dec 09, 12:14 PM
    • #8
    • 3rd Dec 09, 12:14 PM
    I thought that after the goods had been accepted it was the choice of the retailer which remedy (repair/replace/refund) they offered.

    I might be wrong though.
    Originally posted by Littlemiss27

    It is although it has to be reasonable remedy. A bit of missing software is certainly not likely to be accepted as reason to reject a repair.

    OP - what was the point of posting since you don't want advice but simply your stance confirmed.

    If I was you I would take your 5% and software and be happy as you will be lucky to win anything at all over the software in court as the SOGA has been met.
  • Simon.G
    • #9
    • 3rd Dec 09, 12:22 PM
    • #9
    • 3rd Dec 09, 12:22 PM
    I thought that after the goods had been accepted it was the choice of the retailer which remedy (repair/replace/refund) they offered.
    I understand that, but if the goods have been in dispute since the moment of arrival, how does that constitute acceptance?

    OP - what was the point of posting since you don't want advice but simply your stance confirmed.
    For the record I am interested in advice. As I don't have problems like this every day I am not fully aware of my legal rights, hence the reason I spoke to Consumer Direct. As far as they are aware I do have a case to refund the item as I have allowed a reasonable time to pass without remedy and that they were and are in breach of contract. Of course I can only go by their word, just like I can only go buy what you on this board are telling me, however I am questioning to find out exactly where I stand and what options are available to me. I am concurently reading as much ont eh subject as I can and trying to work out if I "have" to accept the remedy supplied by the retailer or whether I can challenge that legally. All your advice is appreciated and noted and I apologise if I am coming cross as being less that accommodating.

    What I am finding hard to accept is that a company such as Littlewoods can basically do what they want when they want and I as a customer have to accept it regardless.

    Regards
    Simon
    Last edited by Simon.G; 03-12-2009 at 12:28 PM.
  • Anihilator
    So you havent been using the goods at all?
  • Simon.G
    I fired it up for about 30 mins when I first got it, which is when I reaslised that it was the older version of the software. I got straight onto Littlewoods and told them and then boxed the thing back up, which is where it is now. I have not used it since.

    Regards
    Simon
  • Anihilator
    Well why exactly didnt you use the DSR and return it?

    Your bargaining position now isnt great and tbh I would suggest you accept whatever offer they come back with as in court you wont win.
  • Simon.G
    Well why exactly didnt you use the DSR and return it?
    I should have, admittedly, but in the interests of fairness I gave Littlewoods the opportunity to rectify the situation, I mean, why wouldn't I, it is a lot easier to get a disc sent out than to send the machine back and have to re-order etc? Unfortunately Littlewoods could not resolve the problem in a reasonable amount of time, however it would seem that it doesn't matter, and that Littlewoods can take as long as they want, do as little as they want, take as little responsibility as they want and then, only when it suits them, will they decide to rectify the situation to their satisfaction and not to the satisfaction of the customer. They make the profit and we as customers have to bow down to whatever they want us to do.

    In addition to this, the remainder of the order that turned up two days later was returned immediately due to it being faulty, and as it was ordered to be used in conjunction with the computer it has put me in a position to my detriment (having to re-order outside of Littlewoods etc), but this does not seem to matter to them.

    Regards
    Simon
  • Simon.G
    Just had a call from the directors office and was told that they would not return it as the manufacturer would not accept it.

    Surely my contract is with Littlewoods and not the manufacturer, and therefore whether the manufacturer accepts it back or not is no relevance to my claim?

    Or have I got that wrong?

    Regards
    Simon
  • Simon.G
    And a further update - The directors office called again and have told me that they are sending out the missing disc and will talk about compensation when it arrives and is deemed to be what was missing from the package. They have done this without consultation with me even though for the last 4 weeks I have requested a return / refund.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but if I receive this disc and accept it I am then accepting the amount of discount regardless of what value it is?

    Regards
    Simon
  • Simon.G
    Final Update...

    I sent a letter to Littlewoods on the 4th December, but before the letter was received last Monday, they called me to tell me that they had spoken to their legal department and they had decided that they were going to allow the unit to be returned. It was picked up on Wednesday and the original 2000+ order value was refunded back onto the account.

    Thanks for all the help and advice.

    Regards
    Simon
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