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  • FIRST POST
    • ajbell
    • By ajbell 26th Jul 09, 6:58 PM
    • 558Posts
    • 1,324Thanks
    ajbell
    what is the average net worth of uk individual/family
    • #1
    • 26th Jul 09, 6:58 PM
    what is the average net worth of uk individual/family 26th Jul 09 at 6:58 PM
    As title. what is the average net worth of uk individual/family.
    Assets/cash minus debts.
Page 1
  • shop-to-drop
    • #2
    • 26th Jul 09, 7:01 PM
    • #2
    • 26th Jul 09, 7:01 PM
    I think the variables would be enormous and so average figures wouldn't really mean a lot as it doesn't only depend on income but spending and investments. I wonder what everyone else will think?
    Last edited by shop-to-drop; 26-07-2009 at 7:04 PM.
    Trytryagain FLYLADY - SAYE £700 each month Premium Bonds £713 Mortgage Was £100,000@20/6/08 now zilch 21/4/15 WTL - 52 (I'll do it 4 MUM)
  • matthew74
    • #3
    • 26th Jul 09, 7:02 PM
    • #3
    • 26th Jul 09, 7:02 PM
    Not far off zero I would imagine.
  • EdInvestor
    • #4
    • 26th Jul 09, 8:17 PM
    • #4
    • 26th Jul 09, 8:17 PM
    Not far off zero I would imagine.
    Originally posted by matthew74

    Wrong, it's 200,000 Euros per head, the highest of the countries examined in this survey.

    http://www.group-economics.allianz.com/images_englisch/pdf_downloads/economy_and_markets/financial_markets/sep07_e_haushaltsvermoegen.pdf

    The main contributors are housing wealth and pensions (of which we have a lot more than people in other countries.)
  • ed123
    • #5
    • 26th Jul 09, 8:30 PM
    • #5
    • 26th Jul 09, 8:30 PM
    ..............5p
    • DiggerUK
    • By DiggerUK 26th Jul 09, 8:38 PM
    • 2,409 Posts
    • 2,194 Thanks
    DiggerUK
    • #6
    • 26th Jul 09, 8:38 PM
    • #6
    • 26th Jul 09, 8:38 PM
    Wrong, it's 200,000 Euros per head, the highest of the countries examined in this survey.
    Originally posted by EdInvestor
    Just one problem Ed, these calculations were done in 2006.
    Which counts as "Before Northern Rock" (BNC), values of property, pensions and investments are a lot lower now.

    I think the answer we have so far is somewhere between zero and 200,000 Euros.
    Anybody got more up to date figures, it would be quite an insight to see what the difference is now.
    I am not now, nor have I ever been, a Financial Adviser.
    Forward, to the 'British Spring'
  • EdInvestor
    • #7
    • 26th Jul 09, 9:39 PM
    • #7
    • 26th Jul 09, 9:39 PM
    Just one problem Ed, these calculations were done in 2006.
    Which counts as "Before Northern Rock" (BNC), values of property, pensions and investments are a lot lower now.
    Originally posted by DiggerUK
    On the other hand there are three years' additional payments off mortgages and into pensions that would be counted. Property is down around 15-20% and other investments probably around 20-25%. Very hard to do a calculation with pensions as the current value of the fund won't affect the eventual payment with final salary pensions (the majority) anyway. Cash savings are likely to have gone up a lot as a percentage of the total.

    Shall we say around 150,000 Euros per head?

    The comparative position with other countries should be much the same as everyone has been affected by the credit crunch - though the exchange rate may be a factor.
    • DiggerUK
    • By DiggerUK 26th Jul 09, 9:48 PM
    • 2,409 Posts
    • 2,194 Thanks
    DiggerUK
    • #8
    • 26th Jul 09, 9:48 PM
    • #8
    • 26th Jul 09, 9:48 PM
    Shall we say around 150,000 Euros per head?
    Originally posted by EdInvestor
    I knew we were above average in our house, now I find we are way beyond all Europeans.

    Is that down to the gold or the magic beans?
    I am not now, nor have I ever been, a Financial Adviser.
    Forward, to the 'British Spring'
  • project500
    • #9
    • 26th Jul 09, 9:53 PM
    • #9
    • 26th Jul 09, 9:53 PM
    I don’t believe it ,I think there is a lot more debt about than is portrayed in these figures
    • Bogof_Babe
    • By Bogof_Babe 26th Jul 09, 9:56 PM
    • 9,380 Posts
    • 14,364 Thanks
    Bogof_Babe
    How can you classify pensions as wealth? Aren't we always being reminded that today's pension contributors are paying for today's pensioners, and we don't actually own the money we have accrued in "our pot".

    Wasn't this the crux of the matter when Allied Wire & Steel (think that's the name) employees lost their pensions? There was outcry because they saw it as their money (rightly as they had paid it in) but it was not deemed "theirs" when it came to drawing down the money in retirement.

    Apologies for any perceived stupidity in this post - I freely acknowledge that I don't know much about these things.
    I haven't bogged off yet, and I ain't no babe


    • Aegis
    • By Aegis 26th Jul 09, 10:00 PM
    • 4,742 Posts
    • 2,806 Thanks
    Aegis
    How can you classify pensions as wealth? Aren't we always being reminded that today's pension contributors are paying for today's pensioners, and we don't actually own the money we have accrued in "our pot".
    Originally posted by Bogof_Babe
    You're thinking of state pensions. State pensions are paid for as required from national insurance contributions. Anything we put into our own pension pots is ours. Final salary schemes become a little tricky because the company effectively has to stay in business to keep paying their retired employees if there is a deficit. Defined contribution schemes are much more straightforward.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser
    Anything I say on the forum is for discussion purposes only and should not be construed as personal financial advice. It is vitally important to do your own research before acting on information gathered from any users on this forum.
    • td_007
    • By td_007 26th Jul 09, 10:02 PM
    • 1,149 Posts
    • 417 Thanks
    td_007
    Shall we say around 150,000 Euros per head?
    Originally posted by EdInvestor
    There is inherent fallacy in considering the value of the house one lives in net assets category - as it will only be available if one sells it which means no roof over the head! Hence, even if the number of house owners might be higher in the UK, one has to first of all subtract the outstanding mortgage and if the house is owned outright, then consider only the difference between the value of the present house versus to one they could potentially buy (down-size) as net asset.

    Over a trillion pounds debt and Eur £150K per head just do not seem to jive....
  • EdInvestor
    I don’t believe it ,I think there is a lot more debt about than is portrayed in these figures
    Originally posted by project500
    Don't forget that 40% of owner occupied property is owned outright with no mortgage.

    IMHO people also don't realise that the levels of prosperity in the Uk have been steadily rising for around 15 years now.Don't forget there was a long period pre credit crunch when the economy was stable, with rising employment and wages, low inflation and interest rates and low basic costs (eg food, gas and elec).

    Then there was the massive crash in the prices of consumer goods caused by the China effect. The price of everything from computers and DVDs to home wares to clothes and shoes has plummeted. The advent of stores like Primark means that even someone on benefits can afford a couple of new fashion items a week.

    People notice that there are a lot more items like plasma TVs and smart cars around and think it's all based on debt.But disposable income has been quite high for years and when prices crashed, such goods became affordable to many people.

    Add to that the fact that most families have two incomes and that young people are much better educated so can get better jobs and earn more, and it's not hard to see why we are at or near the top of the European wealth list
    • Aegis
    • By Aegis 26th Jul 09, 10:07 PM
    • 4,742 Posts
    • 2,806 Thanks
    Aegis
    There is inherent fallacy in considering the value of the house one lives in net assets category - as it will only be available if one sells it which means no roof over the head! Hence, even if the number of house owners might be higher in the UK, one has to first of all subtract the outstanding mortgage and if the house is owned outright, then consider only the difference between the value of the present house versus to one they could potentially buy (down-size) as net asset.

    Over a trillion pounds debt and Eur £150K per head just do not seem to jive....
    Originally posted by td_007
    A house isn't great to use as liquid personal wealth for the reasons that you've identified, but it definitely counts as an asset. Even on a company's balance sheet the buildings would count as assets, just not short-term ones.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser
    Anything I say on the forum is for discussion purposes only and should not be construed as personal financial advice. It is vitally important to do your own research before acting on information gathered from any users on this forum.
    • Bogof_Babe
    • By Bogof_Babe 26th Jul 09, 10:08 PM
    • 9,380 Posts
    • 14,364 Thanks
    Bogof_Babe
    You're thinking of state pensions. State pensions are paid for as required from national insurance contributions. Anything we put into our own pension pots is ours. Final salary schemes become a little tricky because the company effectively has to stay in business to keep paying their retired employees if there is a deficit. Defined contribution schemes are much more straightforward.
    Originally posted by Aegis
    I actually meant final salary schemes (such as I have, albeit frozen until I reach 65). If it goes into deficit due to the longevity of current pensioners, there's no guarantee there will be anything left when my turn comes. If current employees all boycotted the scheme (assuming it was still open to new members) the money would soon run out.

    Point taken about defined contribution pensions though. They "have your name on it" presumably. Then it's only the skill of those investing your money that determines how much you get at retirement, so although you might have a decent sized fund, the return is still an unknown isn't it?
    I haven't bogged off yet, and I ain't no babe


  • gozomark
    what about the per capita amount of UK state debt....
  • EdInvestor
    I actually meant final salary schemes (such as I have, albeit frozen until I reach 65). If it goes into deficit due to the longevity of current pensioners, there's no guarantee there will be anything left when my turn comes.
    Originally posted by Bogof_Babe
    There is now, via the Pension Protection Fund.

    However you cut it, non state retirement savings are always seen as part of household assets, as is property.

    You can always purchase housing services by renting.If you sell your property and invest the money and use the interest to pay the rent, you still have that capital.
  • gozomark
    but who provides the guarantee on the Pension Protection Fund ? Other UK citizens
    • td_007
    • By td_007 26th Jul 09, 10:28 PM
    • 1,149 Posts
    • 417 Thanks
    td_007
    IMHO people also don't realise that the levels of prosperity in the Uk have been steadily rising for around 15 years now.Don't forget there was a long period pre credit crunch when the economy was stable, with rising employment and wages, low inflation and interest rates and low basic costs (eg food, gas and elec).
    Originally posted by EdInvestor
    It is not really clear how much of it was "real" rise and how much of it was fueled by the credit bubble which finally burst. The reality is people could afford to buy houses and too big ones which could not actually afford because of easy credit, they could splurge in shopping because of easy credit, spend big on holidays because of easy credit. Now when credit has become tight you see the number of repossessions rising, retail spend at its lowest ever, holidays cut down drastically.

    Really one should be asking how much "disposable" assets do people have - hard cash saved and what can be sold off without cutting back their present quality of life.
  • EdInvestor
    It is not really clear how much of it was "real" rise and how much of it was fueled by the credit bubble which finally burst.
    Originally posted by td_007
    It is actually clear.The figures quoted in the survey and in the Govt's household wealth survey are net of debt.There simply wasn't as much debt as you think in comparison with the value of the assets.

    Repos so far are less than 1% of total mortgages - if people were in real trouble you'd expect a far higher percentage than that.

    I think quite a few people think the spending had got a bit unbalanced - it was leading to quite a lot of waste for a start - so some people have taken steps to moderate this - eg by paying down debt/mortgages voluntarily while interst rates are so low..But most of them are not forced to do this, they just think it's sensible especially while savings rates are so poor.
    Last edited by EdInvestor; 26-07-2009 at 10:37 PM.
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