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  • FIRST POST
    blueback
    Charging Order? The myth
    • #1
    • 26th Jul 09, 11:28 AM
    Charging Order? The myth 26th Jul 09 at 11:28 AM
    I feel that this is so important that I thought a new thread should be made to highlight the importance of understanding the law on Charging Orders and how many people are stuck with their property in the false believe that they have had a Charging Order put on their property.

    In particular the thousands of Northern Rock customers that have had unsecured debt turned into secured debt by their tactics.

    If your property is jointly owned a creditor will not be able to obtain a CO against you, they can only get what is called a restriction.

    The laws on Restrictions are totally different to Orders, the most important being there is NO OBLIGATION for you to pay any of the proceeds of the sale to the creditor.

    However, during the whole court process you go through the reference from all parties (especially the creditor) will be to charging order and NOT to restriction. This is done in order to decieve you believing you are stuck with a CO.

    However, not all solicitors are aware of the law in this regard and it is important that you raise this point with them in the first instance before proceeding with them

    Quote:

    Restriction


    The restriction which can be entered on the register where a charging order is made against one of joint proprietors is in the following form :-
    No disposition of the registered estate is to be registered without a certificate signed by the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to [name of person with the benefit of the charging order] at [address for service], being the person with the benefit of [an interim] [a final] charging order on the beneficial interest of (name of judgment debtor) made by the (name of court) on (date) (Court reference.…).
    You are therefore correct in saying that when the Land Registry receives an application to register, for example a transfer, we will not ask to see the consent of the person who has the benefit of the charging order. We will only want a certificate from the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that the person who has the benefit of the charging order has been given written notice of the transfer.

    If both joint owners sell the land to a third party the restriction will be cancelled when the transfer to the purchasers is registered.


    So I hope I have provided benefit to everyone who has had a restriction entered against them (especially NORTHERN ROCK CUSTOMERS) who believe wrongly that they are Charging Orders.

    You now have the freedom to go and sell your houses with the knowledge that the vultures can do nothing

    I also think this VERY IMPORTANT point needs highlighting by the moderators as many many people are stuck with houses that they believe they cannot sell
Page 166
    • DAKOTA45
    • By DAKOTA45 13th May 17, 5:01 PM
    • 477 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    DAKOTA45
    As I explained above, there isn't any "14 day" requirement in the terms of a Form K Restriction
    Originally posted by eggbox
    Unless the creditor also has a 'modified' restriction with words to that effect… as in my case.

    D45
    • silverback18
    • By silverback18 14th May 17, 3:52 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    silverback18
    Hi, this is just the subject I need help with, I am just in the process of re-mortgaging, mortgage approved and all going well, then solicitors came back with their are restrictions on the Land Registry, they said they cannot proceed as its a restriction nor a charge, I knew of a charging order, I contacted the debtor who I was paying off monthly as an agreement and thought that would be sorted, but when I contacted the solicitors who are acting for the mortgage lender to tell them it has been cleared and they will lift the restriction they said did you pay all of them, I was unaware of any other charge, they sent me the land registry paper work, there is another charge there, a loan I had as a limited Company, which I closed back in 2009, I have been told I must of signed as a personal guarantee otherwise the judge would not of permitted a charge on my personal property, but the thing with this charge is it is only an interim, not a final charge as the other charge that I cleared was marked as, secondly the charge was put on in 2010, I have never had any contact from them in the 7 years, not a word, where do i stand on this, would the debt be taken as statute barred as they have not made any attempt to contact me to arrange a payment plan or anything in 7 years, or does the interim charge / restriction although it is down as an interim charge on the Land Registry mean statute Barred does not come into play
    • eggbox
    • By eggbox 14th May 17, 5:03 PM
    • 1,228 Posts
    • 629 Thanks
    eggbox
    Silverback 18

    1. Charging Orders (or the Restriction notifying the interim Order) are not subject to becoming Statute Barred; so the creditor has no need to contact you.

    2. The reason your lender won't proceed with a re-mortgage, until the Restriction is cleared, is because they require the mortgage lending to be the first registered charge on your property. As the Restriction would take priority (by date) over any new lending; its extremely doubtful they would proceed with any new lending until that is removed.

    If it helps, a secured loan doesn't normally worry too much about Restrictions unless the amount of equity in the property is extremely low?
    And, as this thread is highlighting; you have options on whether to pay the Restrictions if you decide to sell, instead?
    Last edited by eggbox; 15-05-2017 at 7:14 AM.
    • RMS2
    • By RMS2 15th May 17, 1:51 AM
    • 322 Posts
    • 159 Thanks
    RMS2
    If it helps, a secured loan doesn't normally worry too much about Restrictions unless the amount of guilty in the property is extremely low?
    Originally posted by eggbox
    It's a terrible thing guilt, but I think we will settle for equity in this case.
    • DAKOTA45
    • By DAKOTA45 15th May 17, 6:54 AM
    • 477 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    DAKOTA45
    It's a terrible thing guilt, but I think we will settle for equity in this case.
    Originally posted by RMS2
    I was thinking the same thing…

    D45
    • eggbox
    • By eggbox 15th May 17, 8:06 AM
    • 1,228 Posts
    • 629 Thanks
    eggbox
    It's a terrible thing guilt, but I think we will settle for equity in this case.
    Originally posted by RMS2
    A Freudian slip, maybe?
    • Hootin_Heck
    • By Hootin_Heck 16th May 17, 10:01 AM
    • 23 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Hootin_Heck
    I would just like to add, I know some of you are eager to get hold of a solicitor to deal with "restrictions", and whilst the one I am using so far appears to be on track, I would be unable to supply their details until I can be sure that the outcome is as we would like it to be.

    Also I would prefer, based on the right outcome, that I ask the solicitor if they are willing to take on more clients with the same issue, rather than them just getting inundated.

    Once I am positive that 1) they are ok with it, and, 2) the restrictions are dealt with accordingly, then I will supply eggbox with the details to share where required.

    If it goes wrong for me then I would prefer it didn't go wrong for others too... so I would like to confirm that the solicitors can do the job properly first.
    • Kri5hna
    • By Kri5hna 18th May 17, 4:26 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Kri5hna
    Hi,
    I am hoping someone can help please.
    I have read through most of the thread,but so much to understand have become a little confused,hence the reason for the help and sorry in advance if I am asking a repeated question.
    Property is under mine and my husbands name I am remortarging the house not for equity but because the house is on an interest free mortgage.Solicitor has come back with two restrictions on the property,and because of this can not proceed.
    I came across this forum after settling the first restriction.
    I have read post #3000,meaning that I am unable,unfortunatley, to go through the notice procedure to the creditor.
    The company who has put the restriction on the property does not reside at the given address on the restriction,I have checked the company regeistration number on gov.co.uk and now is trading under a different name and different address.
    Where do I stand with this (if I do)?
    Could I possibly fill out an RX3?
    I am confused,frustrated dont know what to do and would kindly and gratefully appreciate help on this matter.
    Thank you.
    • eggbox
    • By eggbox 18th May 17, 4:42 PM
    • 1,228 Posts
    • 629 Thanks
    eggbox
    Hi Kri5hna

    Filling out an RX3 form is the route I would take in your position? Land Registry Rep is always impressing that its the terms of the Restriction that have to be complied with. If a creditor hasn't updated the Restriction details that is a problem for them?

    Therefore (and I stand to be corrected on this by LRR), when you make the RX3 application to cancel the restrictions the Land Registry can only contact the address as notified on the restriction.

    If its the wrong address and no response is received then that is, neither, the fault of you or the Land Registry and the restrictions will be removed if no objection is received (I think) after 14 days.

    You will then be free to re-mortgage unencumbered and , whether, or not the creditor later gets wind of this and re-applies to register the restriction won't be a problem for you (regarding the re-mortgage) as the mortgage lender will have obtained the first charge as they require.
    Last edited by eggbox; 18-05-2017 at 4:45 PM.
    • Kri5hna
    • By Kri5hna 18th May 17, 5:36 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Kri5hna
    Hi Eggbox,

    Thank yooooou so much for the quick reply and for the great job you are doing on this forum.
    Could you or LRR please help in what I would say on the RX3 as it asks for evidence or state reason why the restriction is no longer required?
    I have filled a RX3 for the first restriction that I have settled and have sent the receipt and letter from the creditor to the land registry as evidence.Will the land registry remove the restriction straight away with the evidence I have sent or will they contact the creditor and wait for the 14 days?
    Sorry to be a pain,I am running short on time and again very grateful for your help.

    Thank you again.

    Kri5hna.
    • eggbox
    • By eggbox 18th May 17, 5:46 PM
    • 1,228 Posts
    • 629 Thanks
    eggbox
    Kri5hna

    LRR won't be able to advise what you should say as its seen as legal advice. But he should be able to explain what the LR procedure is if you were to make an RX3 application stating you have attempted to contact the creditor to repay but they are no longer in business or at the address concerned

    If you do make an application you wouldn't put down you think they are trading under another name at another address as, unless they have notified you of this, its not your problem they haven't updated you with their details.
    • Kri5hna
    • By Kri5hna 18th May 17, 5:56 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Kri5hna
    You are a star Eggbox,thank you again.
    Hopefully LRR replies soon and I can get the process going.
  • Land Registry
    Kri5na see section 3.7.2 of our PG 19 as to the cancellation of a restriction https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/notices-restrictions-and-the-protection-of-third-party-interests-in-the-register

    You need to explain why the restriction is no longer required. Easy where you have settled it of course

    As the guide explains if the application is not made with the beneficiary's consent/involvement then we will most likely serve notice on them. We will only do that if the form RX3 and supporting evidence (if any) is sufficient

    Eggbox is correct re the serving of the Notice on the details we have registered. The notice period is 15 business days.

    The notice aspect is not automated so we will only serve once the RX3 has been considered and cancel at some point after the notice has time expired. That means it may not be considered for a few days after receipt or cancelled until a day or so after the 15th day
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • Kri5hna
    • By Kri5hna 19th May 17, 7:47 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Kri5hna
    Hi LRR,

    Thank you for your reply.

    I have settled one restriction and have the receipt and letter from the creditor. I will be sending as wveidence with a rx3 form.Please could you advise how long it takes for restriction to be removed after LR receive this? Is it done straight away or do they do the 15 day process,even with a letter and receipt from the creditor?

    Thank you again for your help.
    • eggbox
    • By eggbox 19th May 17, 9:08 AM
    • 1,228 Posts
    • 629 Thanks
    eggbox
    Hi LRR

    Can I ask if there are guide lines, regarding the evidence supplied on with an RX3, that the Land Registry are under an obligation to automatically refuse the removal of the Restriction?
    • DAKOTA45
    • By DAKOTA45 22nd May 17, 9:12 AM
    • 477 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    DAKOTA45
    Eggbox… how do you attach jpeg or PDF here, please? D45
    • eggbox
    • By eggbox 22nd May 17, 9:24 AM
    • 1,228 Posts
    • 629 Thanks
    eggbox
    Click on the insert image icon below where it says message when you are typing an entry to the thread (hover your mouse over the icons and it will come up)
  • Land Registry
    Hi LRR,

    Thank you for your reply.

    I have settled one restriction and have the receipt and letter from the creditor. I will be sending as wveidence with a rx3 form.Please could you advise how long it takes for restriction to be removed after LR receive this? Is it done straight away or do they do the 15 day process,even with a letter and receipt from the creditor?

    Thank you again for your help.
    Originally posted by Kri5hna
    Every application is treated on merit and how quickly it is processed and whether Notices are served will depend on the specific circumstances.

    Consideration normally takes between 7/10 business days
    If you submit the applicaiton yourself along with the letter/receipt from the creditor I would expect us to then serve Notice and allow them 15 business days to reply
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • Land Registry
    Hi LRR

    Can I ask if there are guide lines, regarding the evidence supplied on with an RX3, that the Land Registry are under an obligation to automatically refuse the removal of the Restriction?
    Originally posted by eggbox
    There is no guidance above and beyond our Practice Guides, of which you are already aware.

    Every application is treated on merit and considered not only on the basis of what is submitted but also what is registered.

    I assume you really mean what sort of evidence would we expect to receive in support of an applicaiton to cancel a form K restriction, which is not automatically being cancelled when overreached.

    If so we would expect the supporting evidence to be one of the following
    * a court order discharging the charging order; or
    * a form DS1, suitably amended; or
    * a receipt for payment of the money secured.

    If that evidence is not submitted then we would usually request it rather than automatically refuse an application.

    But, and in the context of recent posts on this thread, if the application is simply that they have been unable to get hold of the creditor then that is likely to be rejected as it is clear that the debt exists albeit the creditor has not been reached.
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • DAKOTA45
    • By DAKOTA45 23rd May 17, 10:18 AM
    • 477 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    DAKOTA45
    Ok.../Users/Desktop/Form K.jpeg I don't think this will work, though…

    It's a jpeg on my desktop… perhaps it needs to be in a different format… it's an imaged I have scanned…
    D45
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