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  • FIRST POST
    blueback
    Charging Order? The myth
    • #1
    • 26th Jul 09, 11:28 AM
    Charging Order? The myth 26th Jul 09 at 11:28 AM
    I feel that this is so important that I thought a new thread should be made to highlight the importance of understanding the law on Charging Orders and how many people are stuck with their property in the false believe that they have had a Charging Order put on their property.

    In particular the thousands of Northern Rock customers that have had unsecured debt turned into secured debt by their tactics.

    If your property is jointly owned a creditor will not be able to obtain a CO against you, they can only get what is called a restriction.

    The laws on Restrictions are totally different to Orders, the most important being there is NO OBLIGATION for you to pay any of the proceeds of the sale to the creditor.

    However, during the whole court process you go through the reference from all parties (especially the creditor) will be to charging order and NOT to restriction. This is done in order to decieve you believing you are stuck with a CO.

    However, not all solicitors are aware of the law in this regard and it is important that you raise this point with them in the first instance before proceeding with them

    Quote:

    Restriction


    The restriction which can be entered on the register where a charging order is made against one of joint proprietors is in the following form :-
    No disposition of the registered estate is to be registered without a certificate signed by the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to [name of person with the benefit of the charging order] at [address for service], being the person with the benefit of [an interim] [a final] charging order on the beneficial interest of (name of judgment debtor) made by the (name of court) on (date) (Court reference.…).
    You are therefore correct in saying that when the Land Registry receives an application to register, for example a transfer, we will not ask to see the consent of the person who has the benefit of the charging order. We will only want a certificate from the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that the person who has the benefit of the charging order has been given written notice of the transfer.

    If both joint owners sell the land to a third party the restriction will be cancelled when the transfer to the purchasers is registered.


    So I hope I have provided benefit to everyone who has had a restriction entered against them (especially NORTHERN ROCK CUSTOMERS) who believe wrongly that they are Charging Orders.

    You now have the freedom to go and sell your houses with the knowledge that the vultures can do nothing

    I also think this VERY IMPORTANT point needs highlighting by the moderators as many many people are stuck with houses that they believe they cannot sell
Page 145
    • stayhappy
    • By stayhappy 13th Oct 16, 3:49 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    stayhappy
    Advice needed again!
    I posted recently asking for help with an ICO. I defended the interim order as advised although I did not expect to stop it. I sent the defence to the court and the claimants soliciters.
    I had a letter from the soliciter answering my defence. The letter 'appeared' reasonable and also said they had not been advised to get an order for sale just to secure the debt with the charging order.
    I heard nothing else and was expecting a court date, However all we received was a letter from the court confirming the hearing had taken place and the order made final.
    The letter says
    The final charging order continues as modified.
    The interest of the judgement debtor in the asset (home) stand charged with the payment of the sum of £xxxx. the amount now owing under a judgement or order given Jan 2015 by CCBC. together with any further interest becoming due and £243 costs of application.
    The costs are to be added to the judgement debt.
    Does this mean we carry on the monthly payments as per original CCJ?
    Also we were going to attend a hearing to make sure no further interest would be added unlawfully, so I am concerned about the bit saying any further interest etc.
    Any thoughts thankyou.
    • nikkita
    • By nikkita 13th Oct 16, 6:07 PM
    • 86 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    nikkita
    Help with "charge" against my property
    I bought a house from a family friend just over a year ago but i didnt have the full asking price. Our friend was happy to allow us to pay off the shortfall in monthly installments as if we were paying a mortgage.The conveyencing was done properly through both ours and our friends solicitors. Our friend quite rightly put a charge on/against? (not sure what the correct term is) the property to ensure that it would be paid back in full and we have never defaulted on the payments. I am the registered owner of my house and although i am married my husband is not down as the joint owner.We currently live in northern ireland.
    We are now in a position to pay back this money but we are not sure how to go about getting the charge removed. Any help would be greatly appreciated x
    CHAMPAGNE TASTE.....LEMONADE MONEY




    42/70 lbs weight gone forever
    • DAKOTA45
    • By DAKOTA45 13th Oct 16, 6:16 PM
    • 380 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    DAKOTA45
    I posted recently asking for help with an ICO. I defended the interim order as advised although I did not expect to stop it. I sent the defence to the court and the claimants soliciters.
    I had a letter from the soliciter answering my defence. The letter 'appeared' reasonable and also said they had not been advised to get an order for sale just to secure the debt with the charging order.
    I heard nothing else and was expecting a court date, However all we received was a letter from the court confirming the hearing had taken place and the order made final.
    The letter says
    The final charging order continues as modified.
    The interest of the judgement debtor in the asset (home) stand charged with the payment of the sum of £xxxx. the amount now owing under a judgement or order given Jan 2015 by CCBC. together with any further interest becoming due and £243 costs of application.
    The costs are to be added to the judgement debt.
    Does this mean we carry on the monthly payments as per original CCJ?
    Also we were going to attend a hearing to make sure no further interest would be added unlawfully, so I am concerned about the bit saying any further interest etc.
    Any thoughts thankyou.
    Originally posted by stayhappy
    That doesn't sound right… you would normally be sent a date to attend court for the final CO. D45
    • DAKOTA45
    • By DAKOTA45 13th Oct 16, 6:18 PM
    • 380 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    DAKOTA45
    I bought a house from a family friend just over a year ago but i didnt have the full asking price. Our friend was happy to allow us to pay off the shortfall in monthly installments as if we were paying a mortgage.The conveyencing was done properly through both ours and our friends solicitors. Our friend quite rightly put a charge on/against? (not sure what the correct term is) the property to ensure that it would be paid back in full and we have never defaulted on the payments. I am the registered owner of my house and although i am married my husband is not down as the joint owner.We currently live in northern ireland.
    We are now in a position to pay back this money but we are not sure how to go about getting the charge removed. Any help would be greatly appreciated x
    Originally posted by nikkita
    I would imagine you pay your friend and she (or you) would contact Land Registry and get the charge removed. I'm sure Eggbox will advise, though. D45
    • eggbox
    • By eggbox 13th Oct 16, 8:49 PM
    • 1,059 Posts
    • 553 Thanks
    eggbox
    I posted recently asking for help with an ICO. I defended the interim order as advised although I did not expect to stop it. I sent the defence to the court and the claimants soliciters.
    I had a letter from the soliciter answering my defence. The letter 'appeared' reasonable and also said they had not been advised to get an order for sale just to secure the debt with the charging order.
    I heard nothing else and was expecting a court date, However all we received was a letter from the court confirming the hearing had taken place and the order made final.
    The letter says
    The final charging order continues as modified.
    The interest of the judgement debtor in the asset (home) stand charged with the payment of the sum of £xxxx. the amount now owing under a judgement or order given Jan 2015 by CCBC. together with any further interest becoming due and £243 costs of application.
    The costs are to be added to the judgement debt.
    Does this mean we carry on the monthly payments as per original CCJ?
    Also we were going to attend a hearing to make sure no further interest would be added unlawfully, so I am concerned about the bit saying any further interest etc.
    Any thoughts thankyou.
    Originally posted by stayhappy
    Interim Orders are usually granted without hearing. If you wrote to "defend" the IO then they have probably taken it that there wasn't any objection to a FCO?

    The rules have recently changed for Charging Orders and they can now be sorted by the Court Office unless there is an objection (which then reverts to being heard before a Judge)

    The part about any further interest due is more likely to just cover any interest that is due; any Order granting interest will have to give a rate of the interest.

    If your only objection was going to be regarding the interest you can ask the Court to confirm whether or not the FCO included interest on the debt and act accordingly?

    Its really up to you if you want to carry on repaying the debt now as there is no chance they can get an OFS. If you have other commitments you can prioritise those and drop this creditor to a pound.
    • eggbox
    • By eggbox 13th Oct 16, 8:52 PM
    • 1,059 Posts
    • 553 Thanks
    eggbox
    I would imagine you pay your friend and she (or you) would contact Land Registry and get the charge removed. I'm sure Eggbox will advise, though. D45
    Originally posted by DAKOTA45
    Yes just fill in the relevant RX form when the debt is settled
    • stayhappy
    • By stayhappy 14th Oct 16, 12:51 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    stayhappy
    Hi Thanks for reply.
    We received the IO and then I had a set time to send a defence which I did and presumed this was against it being made final.
    I expected to be notified of a court date.
    As it was unlikely we could have prevented a FCO I am not too bothered as long as further interest will not be added to the amount owing.
    I will continue to pay the CCJ as it is not a large amount anyway and this prevents them applying for an Order for Sale if we keep up to date with payments doesn't it?
    I know it is unlikely they would grant this but I would rather avoid the stress of them applying in the first place.
    Can I confirm the wording from the order that I posted in my last post is not asking for immediate payment.
    Thanks again
    • eggbox
    • By eggbox 14th Oct 16, 12:58 PM
    • 1,059 Posts
    • 553 Thanks
    eggbox
    stayhappy

    No its not its just letting you know how much is added to your debt.
    • eggbox
    • By eggbox 15th Oct 16, 12:53 PM
    • 1,059 Posts
    • 553 Thanks
    eggbox
    I've just had post come up on my page from a poster called "so very confused" but its now gone?

    Has it been deleted is the site playing up?
    • so very confused
    • By so very confused 15th Oct 16, 1:00 PM
    • 879 Posts
    • 2,844 Thanks
    so very confused
    Hi Eggbox
    My apologies that was me. I was very worried went into detail and when I read my post back realised I might be identified.
    I have never deleted a post before.
    Thank you for your response.
    svc
    SCP # 034
    The £1000 emergency fund #59
    • eggbox
    • By eggbox 15th Oct 16, 2:15 PM
    • 1,059 Posts
    • 553 Thanks
    eggbox
    Hi Eggbox
    My apologies that was me. I was very worried went into detail and when I read my post back realised I might be identified.
    I have never deleted a post before.
    Thank you for your response.
    svc
    Originally posted by so very confused
    No problem. However, to answer the question that you were asking the chances of an OFS on a primary, family residence is so minute it's not worth being concerned about.

    A quick search of Google will show that it is virtually impossible to find anyone who has had an OFS granted against them. And Court statistics show less than 5 in a 1000 Charging Orders ever progress to the OFS stage (and that is progress not granted?)

    The reason why Orders For Sale are also so difficult to obtain is largely because the final decision is at the total discretion of the Judge. Creditors understand this which is why, despite often threatening an OFS, they don't proceed to court as they know the chances of them succeeding are so minutely small and they understand they will just be wasting time and a Court fee.

    As has also been noted on this thread, the Ministry of Judtice's review of charging orders, in 2012, also accepted that there was Case Law that prevented an OFS happening, on primary or family residences, when making their decision of the £1000 threshold before and OFS could be sought by a creditor .

    Whilst I understand that being in debt is not a nice position to be in; you can at least be re-assured that you won't have a OFS granted against you given your circumstances.
    Last edited by eggbox; 15-10-2016 at 2:19 PM.
    • so very confused
    • By so very confused 15th Oct 16, 5:59 PM
    • 879 Posts
    • 2,844 Thanks
    so very confused
    Hi eggbox
    Thank you again for your response. I thought that might be the case but when you can see the process beginning fairly imminently it gets a bit scary. Rational thought processes go out the window.
    Well, I will try sleeping at night again.
    SCP # 034
    The £1000 emergency fund #59
    • DAKOTA45
    • By DAKOTA45 15th Oct 16, 6:00 PM
    • 380 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    DAKOTA45
    I think also, making someone homeless would be very unlikely… my creditor has twice threatened me with an OFS and so far has not followed through…
    *touches wood*

    D45
    • DAKOTA45
    • By DAKOTA45 15th Oct 16, 6:03 PM
    • 380 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    DAKOTA45
    Hi eggbox
    Thank you again for your response. I thought that might be the case but when you can see the process beginning fairly imminently it gets a bit scary. Rational thought processes go out the window.
    Well, I will try sleeping at night again.
    Originally posted by so very confused
    Sleep.. what's that?!! The nights are dreadful and I don't sleep at all… it's so much worse at night for some reason… so what happens is that you fall into a deep sleep during the day…

    I'm so out of kilter now, I'm virtually nocturnal.

    Creditors should not be allowed to prey upon people to the extent that they seriously affect the health of those whose only crime (in my case) is to be poor ...

    D45
    • so very confused
    • By so very confused 15th Oct 16, 6:17 PM
    • 879 Posts
    • 2,844 Thanks
    so very confused
    Hi D45
    Read some of your posts, don't know how you are coping.

    Thanks for taking the time to reply
    SCP # 034
    The £1000 emergency fund #59
    • DAKOTA45
    • By DAKOTA45 16th Oct 16, 8:44 AM
    • 380 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    DAKOTA45
    Hi D45
    Read some of your posts, don't know how you are coping.

    Thanks for taking the time to reply
    Originally posted by so very confused
    You just have to cope as best you can… I can honestly say that this has been a life changing episode for me and one from which I will never fully recover… the nightmares and anxiety are crippling.
    It would be so much easier if I could afford to pay a lawyer…

    So many people in this boat without the means to defend themselves in court.. How can that be justice!!

    I hope all goes well for you eventually…

    D45
    • DAKOTA45
    • By DAKOTA45 16th Oct 16, 8:45 AM
    • 380 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    DAKOTA45
    Eggbox… the thread seems to be functioning at the moment… you gave me a scare…
    Arrggghhh!!

    D45
    • Fergie42
    • By Fergie42 19th Oct 16, 4:12 PM
    • 180 Posts
    • 301 Thanks
    Fergie42
    Final charging order
    Hi




    Back in 2008 a final charging order was made on our home due to my husband not being able to keep up with car finance. This is for approximately £9k now as he was regularly paying £20 a month.
    However, when we changed bank accounts he didn't set up a new standing order and hasn't being paying them.
    They have wrote to him and I am petrified they will now be able to take our family home. He has wrote back asking to start up the £20 per month again and told them he has no money and is on benefits.
    We have 2 children under 16 and about £50k equity in the home and a joint mortgage.
    Are they allowed to force us to sell as we would never get another mortgage and effectively be homeless.
    Sorry for rambling but I am so scared about this
    Thanks

    • eggbox
    • By eggbox 19th Oct 16, 4:32 PM
    • 1,059 Posts
    • 553 Thanks
    eggbox
    Hi Fergie42

    Don't lose any sleep over this as whilst they can apply for an Order For Sale the chances of them succeeding are less than zero.

    This is because of your circumstances of having children and also the property being a family home. Your husband's creditor will also be aware they have no chance of obtaining an Order For Sale and will understand that attempting to do so will only waste their time and cost them the expense of court please .

    Most creditors who obtain a Charging Order fully understand that they are in for a long wait before the debt is repaid. So don't get worried if they write and explain they will have to apply for an order for sale if you don't pay more money?

    It will be an underhand bluff to try and scared the wits out of you so you started paying money you can't afford. For now I would just repay them what you feel you can and leave it at that.
    • Fergie42
    • By Fergie42 19th Oct 16, 4:52 PM
    • 180 Posts
    • 301 Thanks
    Fergie42
    Hi Fergie42

    Don't lose any sleep over this as whilst they can apply for an Order For Sale the chances of them succeeding are less than zero.

    This is because of your circumstances of having children and also the property being a family home. Your husband's creditor will also be aware they have no chance of obtaining an Order For Sale and will understand that attempting to do so will only waste their time and cost them the expense of court please .

    Most creditors who obtain a Charging Order fully understand that they are in for a long wait before the debt is repaid. So don't get worried if they write and explain they will have to apply for an order for sale if you don't pay more money?

    It will be an underhand bluff to try and scared the wits out of you so you started paying money you can't afford. For now I would just repay them what you feel you can and leave it at that.
    Originally posted by eggbox
    Thanks so much for your reply. What happens when the children reach 18 though as they are 14 and 15 now? I know it seems a long way off but I can't help worrying.
    thanks again

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