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  • G_M
    • #2
    • 20th Jul 09, 12:17 AM
    • #2
    • 20th Jul 09, 12:17 AM
    Good selection of docs here.
  • zzzLazyDaisy
    • #3
    • 20th Jul 09, 12:26 AM
    • #3
    • 20th Jul 09, 12:26 AM
    Good selection of docs here.
    Originally posted by G_M
    But that site costs 75 to join :confused:

    OP, there is a free download here

    http://www.riky.co.uk/more_info.asp?...FZgU4wodvl7s-A

    The word version so you can amend it to suit yourself costs 4.95, but you could always print off the free download and then type it up yourself.

    (note I found this on a google search - I haven't actually checked out the document)
    I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.

    Letter Before Claim from a parking company? DO NOT IGNORE - THE NEXT STEP IS COURT ACTION. See my thread (page 1 of the parking forum) and FIGHT BACK!
  • clutton
    • #4
    • 20th Jul 09, 12:53 AM
    • #4
    • 20th Jul 09, 12:53 AM
    i get sooooo frustrated at new landlords who come on here on a weekly basis asking for free tenancy agreements

    when will they ever learn that the ONLY time you will know if your agreement is a legal document is in court - you will be trying to get a tenant out who has not paid you rent for months and trashed your house - and the judge throws out your case because your tenancy agreement is rubbish

    if you are new to this business - and it is a complex business - then either join RLA or NLA and do some reading about your legal responsibilities and get their versions of a tenancy agreement - at least you will know it comes from an accurate source

    joining such a professionals body (which is tax deductible and which gives you cheaper house insurance, legal help line, all the docs you can possibly want) shows tenants that you are a proper landlord - not an amateur trying to do things on the cheap

    there are 69 different pieces of legislation covering landlord and tenancy matters......
  • nomis21
    • #5
    • 20th Jul 09, 8:38 AM
    • #5
    • 20th Jul 09, 8:38 AM
    i get sooooo frustrated at new landlords who come on here on a weekly basis asking for free tenancy agreements

    when will they ever learn that the ONLY time you will know if your agreement is a legal document is in court - you will be trying to get a tenant out who has not paid you rent for months and trashed your house - and the judge throws out your case because your tenancy agreement is rubbish

    if you are new to this business - and it is a complex business - then either join RLA or NLA and do some reading about your legal responsibilities and get their versions of a tenancy agreement - at least you will know it comes from an accurate source

    joining such a professionals body (which is tax deductible and which gives you cheaper house insurance, legal help line, all the docs you can possibly want) shows tenants that you are a proper landlord - not an amateur trying to do things on the cheap

    there are 69 different pieces of legislation covering landlord and tenancy matters......
    Originally posted by clutton
    Yeah sorry clutton you are right. Iam not trying to do anything on the cheap, iam sorry to have frustrated you. I just wanted to compare tenancy agreements with the one i have but i was not prepared to pay as some sites are expensive.
    I understand the importance of joining such professions and i will seek advice on this.
    Thanks for yr comments
  • clutton
    • #6
    • 20th Jul 09, 10:59 AM
    • #6
    • 20th Jul 09, 10:59 AM
    there is no such thing as a standard tenancy agreement - i have seen one half a page long and seen one 75 pages long.

    i have seen amateur landlords using scottish agreements in England and i have seen agreements that are so out of date they would not be valid

    the AST is THE most important document you need in this business
  • rla_john
    • #7
    • 30th Nov 09, 3:52 PM
    • #7
    • 30th Nov 09, 3:52 PM
    But that site costs 75 to join :confused:
    Originally posted by zzzLazyDaisy
    Just want to say that the RLA tenancy agreement is designed by the professionals and solicitors behind the Residential Landlords Association.

    It is a one-size-fits all tenancy agreement that is designed to be as clear and concise as can be.

    For those who want to add conditions, the RLA can provide an "Addendum" that can be used to add extra conditions and RLA advise is that any conditions you want to remove, can be struck out and signed.

    The AST is free for RLA members, which is where the 75 comes in and non-members can purchase it for 5, which helps fund the RLA's lobbying fund.

    Clutton is correct, there is no such thing as a standard AST, but the best advice is to not rush out and make your own from scratch, even if it is from a template - unless of course you are willing to run it by a solicitor to check, in which case the cost will spiral.

    Take comfort in the quality of documents you can get from any of the better known suppliers out there like the RLA or NLA, you have enough to worry about running your tenancies.

    Being from the RLA, I can tell you that the RLA AST is used in it's tens of thousands throughout England & Wales, it can be completed on-screen or by hand and is in keeping with legislation.

    One final word, there are actually over 80 different laws and statutes controlling the PRS, it was only 50 five years ago

    Cheers

    John
    ----------------------------------
    "I can only be nice to one person each day and today isn't your day - in fact, its not looking good for tomorrow either"
  • 791alexis
    • #8
    • 30th Nov 09, 3:54 PM
    • #8
    • 30th Nov 09, 3:54 PM
    hi. sorry to interupt, but i am new to all of this, and i haven't got a clue how to start a new post. could someone help me out please? xxxxxxxx
  • N79
    • #9
    • 30th Nov 09, 3:58 PM
    • #9
    • 30th Nov 09, 3:58 PM
    Just want to say that the RLA tenancy agreement is designed by the professionals and solicitors behind the Residential Landlords Association.
    Originally posted by rla_john
    Since you have dragged up an old post (presumably to advertise based on your username?) I thought I would point out that these are the same "professionals" who thought that taking 2 months rent at the start of a tenancy was not a deposit. :rolleyes:
  • rla_john
    Simple, go back up to the forum (not this conversation for example) and then click the blue button (called "New Thread") at the top of the list of conversations.

    From there, enter your thread title and subject, then your cooking with gas !!

    Regards,

    John

    P.S. Welcome to MSE!
    ----------------------------------
    "I can only be nice to one person each day and today isn't your day - in fact, its not looking good for tomorrow either"
  • 791alexis
    thankyou for your help xxx
  • tbs624
    Tenancy agreements also available from LL&T solicitor Tessa Sheppersons site( she also drafts for LawPack) and from legal stationers Oyez.

    OP - membership of LL Law and LL associations etc is tax deductible ( as is the cost of your AST) and gets you discounts on your LL insurance premiums, plus a fairly straightforward way of keeping up with changes to the rules and regs. Do note however, that even the RLA gets it wrong sometimes ( see N79s comment above) so its worth joining more than one.
    Last edited by tbs624; 30-11-2009 at 5:34 PM.
  • 791alexis
    sorry, i bet i sound really dumb, but i haven't got anything that says new thread. xxxxx
  • rla_john
    Since you have dragged up an old post (presumably to advertise based on your username?) I thought I would point out that these are the same "professionals" who thought that taking 2 months rent at the start of a tenancy was not a deposit. :rolleyes:
    Originally posted by N79
    No lies, I think my user name and the fact I said "Being from the RLA" shows I'm not trying to be covert in anyway.

    I simply want to highlight that the RLA doesn't charge 75 for an AST.

    On the subject of 2 Months Rent in advance, much like 1 month rent in advance , is not a deposit, but as it sounds, 2 months rent in advance.

    At this point, as far as I know, that is being challenged and so we are waiting to see if some form of case law comes to light.

    Regards,

    John
    ----------------------------------
    "I can only be nice to one person each day and today isn't your day - in fact, its not looking good for tomorrow either"
  • bungle4x4
    i get sooooo frustrated at new landlords who come on here on a weekly basis asking for free tenancy agreements

    when will they ever learn that the ONLY time you will know if your agreement is a legal document is in court - you will be trying to get a tenant out who has not paid you rent for months and trashed your house - and the judge throws out your case because your tenancy agreement is rubbish

    if you are new to this business - and it is a complex business - then either join RLA or NLA and do some reading about your legal responsibilities and get their versions of a tenancy agreement - at least you will know it comes from an accurate source

    joining such a professionals body (which is tax deductible and which gives you cheaper house insurance, legal help line, all the docs you can possibly want) shows tenants that you are a proper landlord - not an amateur trying to do things on the cheap

    there are 69 different pieces of legislation covering landlord and tenancy matters......
    Originally posted by clutton
    can you post up the templates here then? for free? or are you part of this 'organisation'?
  • N79
    On the subject of 2 Months Rent in advance, much like 1 month rent in advance , is not a deposit, but as it sounds, 2 months rent in advance.

    At this point, as far as I know, that is being challenged and so we are waiting to see if some form of case law comes to light.

    Regards,

    John
    Originally posted by rla_john
    John - I'm glad that you can take a joke!

    But I can't let that part of your post pass. Yes, two months rent in advance is two months rent in advance - we all agree on that. Under such circumstance the T's next payment is due before the start of month 3. However, the RLA's old avoid TDS weeze of taking the first and last months rent in advance is not the same thing!

    Maybe the RLA's original scheme will be proved right in the but I doubt and you (the RLA) doubt it.
  • tbs624
    No lies, I think my user name and the fact I said "Being from the RLA" shows I'm not trying to be covert in anyway.

    I simply want to highlight that the RLA doesn't charge 75 for an AST.

    On the subject of 2 Months Rent in advance, much like 1 month rent in advance , is not a deposit, but as it sounds, 2 months rent in advance.

    At this point, as far as I know, that is being challenged and so we are waiting to see if some form of case law comes to light.

    Regards,
    John
    Originally posted by rla_john
    From the RLA website :
    "We have previously issued advice to members to ensure that advance payment of rent is properly described as such and documented. However, it has now come to our attention that the Courts are beginning to carefully scrutinise advance payments of rent and that judges may treat it as a disguised deposit which ought to be dealt with under one of the statutory tenancy deposit schemes. This could mean that you could have to pay three times the amount penalty if you have taken advance rent, and not protected it under one of the statutory schemes should the Court decide to treat it is a deposit. Whilst the RLA still believes that an advance payment of rent is not a tenancy deposit, judges are appearing to regard it as an attempt to avoid the legislation. As a result, if you apply for possession using Section 21 against an assured shorthold tenant, at the least you could have to attend Court to explain the situation and persuade the judge that the money you received genuinely was an advance payment of rent and not a tenancy deposit. If you bring action based on rent arrears you could face a claim by the tenant that the advance payment of rent was not that at all but was a deposit. This could mean that the tenant could then try to counterclaim for the penalty to avoid rent arrears. Either way, you could face delay and anxiety in obtaining possession. It may well be the case in time that the position is clarified in favour of the landlord. We are however, issuing a strong warning to landlords about the problems which could be encountered by you. Our advice therefore is not to take an advance payment of rent from the tenant because of the potential uncertainty and problems you might face."


    My highlighting.Guess it comes as a shock to the RLA that they don't make the rules on this one.

    Trying to help your members effectively circumvent the law on tenancy deposits is pretty disgraceful : LLs who seek to do so deserve trouncing via the courts IMO Will the RLA help those LLs who end up in difficulty because they acted on the RLA's original "professional advice" btw?
    Last edited by tbs624; 30-11-2009 at 4:20 PM.
  • Fire Fox
    can you post up the templates here then? for free? or are you part of this 'organisation'?
    Originally posted by bungle4x4
    Clutton is a professional landlord, and a very helpful one at that. Why should Clutton give you something for free that she has paid for? Join the landlord's association, you will excellent get value for money by all accounts.
    What a difference a day makes, twenty four little hours.
  • bungle4x4
    Clutton is a professional landlord, and a very helpful one at that. Why should Clutton give you something for free that she has paid for? Join the landlord's association, you will excellent get value for money by all accounts.
    Originally posted by Fire Fox
    why not though. this is a money saving forum....
  • N79
    why not though. this is a money saving forum....
    Originally posted by bungle4x4
    Money saving not breaching copyright, "stealing" others work and removing the advatages of a professional relationship.
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