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  • FIRST POST
    linlin
    Cost of oil central heating
    • #1
    • 6th Mar 06, 3:31 PM
    Cost of oil central heating 6th Mar 06 at 3:31 PM
    Official MSE Insert:

    If you've arrived from Google, our fully researched Cheap Heating Oil guide may be helpful.

    Back to the original post...

    A property I may be interested in has oil fired central heating. I asked the estate agent some questions and was told the boiler is 7 to 8 yrs old, is a Camroy 2 and the current owners have had two oil deliveries in the past year costing approx £160 each. The EA forgot to ask about quantities, but I guess this has to be 2 x 500 litre deliveries

    I estimate the house is approx. 1400 sq ft on one floor.

    £320 pa for heating seems very low and I'm wondering if I've been told the truth or not.
    Last edited by Former MSE Zorica; 18-02-2014 at 6:08 PM.
Page 2
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 2nd Apr 06, 2:40 PM
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    Cardew
    Oil was not 9p a litre 6 or 7 years ago. When I moved in 20 years years ago it was 10p then, and that was the cheapest since I have been here.
    I was told "that oil was much more expensive than gas", on my experience that was not a valid statement.
    by moonrakerz
    I think we may be at cross purposes here.

    There is no doubt that oil at one time was the cheapest fuel for CH. In fact I bought the 'Which' central heating supplement about 30 years ago. That advised oil was the cheapest and I converted the solid fuel CH system I had to oil - and within a year or so it turned out to be a bad decision(cost wise) However the relative differential in running costs between oil, gas, off-peak electricity and solid fuel has varied considerably over the years.

    The point I and Paul were making is that it is now considerably more expensive than gas for the same output. That is not to say that the gap might not close(or widen?) over the next couple of years.

    As I said in another thread there is merit getting Economy 7 and using this for heating water and getting some modern slimline storage heaters and retaining oil CH for topping up heating if required. Given you can get E7 electricity at less than 2p kWh in some places(with 100% efficiency) it is much cheaper than oil. Even if you just used it for the Immersion heater it would be a saving.
  • moonrakerz
    I am about to move house - from oil fired to gas. Give me a few months and I'll let you know my thoughts on that move.
    I will be going to a smaller house with a warm air system rather than rads - it 'aint gonna be easy to compare the two cost-wise !
    • alanfp
    • By alanfp 8th Nov 07, 1:12 AM
    • 136 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    alanfp
    Aga is the culprit
    Just moved into a house with an Aga.

    I noticed that some of the earlier threads mentioned how high their bills were - but they each had an Aga!

    Mine is electric and is supposed to use around 260kWh / week. That's about £13 at an ave cost of 5p / kWh (4p for 7 hrs at night, 10.5 p if it has to boost during the day). So £650 p.a. ........... not too bad, I suppose, compared with some of the figures quoted above, BUT THAT'S JUST TO COOK AND KEEP THE KITCHEN WARM!!!!! On top, I have to pay for hot water and Central heating.

    My money saving tip would be to not use an oven that you can't turn down/off if you're not using it. (and don't even think about the interest on the £10,000 that it would cost to install today. No, I haven't got the decimal point in the wrong place - check out a current brochure for an electric night storage 4-oven one like mine). And during the summer, of course, you moderate the temperature of your kitchen by deciding how wide to leave the windows open.

    But I'm rather stuck with mine as it would be a mega job to rip it out (kitchen is only about 3 yrs old) and the current Mrs fp quite likes it:rolleyes:
  • Pilly57
    Re: Boulter Camray 2

    I wish I had seen this post before

    Skidduck and paul_h

    As an oil heating engineer of 29 years I feel qualified to say what an absolute load of crap you both talk ...that's the kind of blurb I would expect from a manufacturer trying to flog their new "more efficient" boilers. Efficiency is determined by the quality of the commissioning or service engineer, not by the manufacturers, OFTEC or SEDBUK. Just because a boiler is capable of reaching 95% - doesn't mean that it always will !, moreover, just because a boiler is classed as "condensing" - doesn't mean it's always in condensing mode, a good service engineer is required to keep it there.

    I service dozens of Boulter Camray 2's every year and not one of them falls below 86% and some will reach 90% but they are still worthy of a SEDBUK band B listing. The Boulter Camray 2 is not in the sedbuk listings because it has simply been superceeded. Interestingly, all of the parts for the Boulter Camray 2 are still available today and they have one of the most reliable burners, that being Riello's Mectron 2M & 3BM for most domestic models.

    So often I hear people harking on about Worcester Bosch being so wonderful, like many engineers I too suspect that Worcester bosch acquired Boulter because the quality build and reliability of the Boulter Boilers product was a threat to Worcester Bosch. Of all the boilers I service every year I am called on to replace more parts on a Worcester Bosch boiler than any other make (with perhaps a single exception being Eurocal), the least number of parts required is associated with Boulter Boilers. So when taking into consideration the efficiency of a boiler we must consider the cost of ongoing maintenance and lets not forget the energy required to produce those replacement parts for the Worcester Heatslave. If you own a later version of the Worcester Bosch Heatslave with the plastic Honeywell divertor valve you should expect to be shelling out before too long on a new valve cartridge and labour charges.
    Be under no illusion, just because a boiler has been superceeded doesn't mean that it is inneficient, it usually means that a manufacturer has run out of things to sell you and it will tell the consumer anything in order to make a sale. Worcester Bosch are the market leaders not because their boilers are more efficient or reliable but because they have huge resources to pump into marketing hype. If their product is so good, why do we hear their adverts so often on the radio and TV. A good product sells itself !

    And as for the "Cost of oil central heating" consumers might do better to brush away all of the marketing hype and brainwash that's flying about and concentrate more on long term maintenance costs, Boulter Boilers were always out in front on this score.

    Curiously at the time of writing I hear on the news that gas and electricity prices are expected to rise by 40% !
    Last edited by Pilly57; 19-06-2008 at 3:23 PM.
    • amtrakuk
    • By amtrakuk 21st Jun 08, 1:10 PM
    • 612 Posts
    • 208 Thanks
    amtrakuk
    From another post:

    "It is getting really scary - I only installed oil heating at the turn of this year as I was advised it was a cheaper option from electricity "Total Heating with No Control" . (Live in a village with no access to gas)

    It was only after installing that I realised we were in a situation where the oil suppliers are completely unregulated and can effectively charge what they want.

    The increases in the cost of a litre of kerosene is obscene 64.54p per litre if I order over 900 as at today's prices - while I moan about it now it is not until winter is here and I cannot afford to heat my house for my family that it will really be felt and I am sure I will not be alone!! God only knows what the price will be sitting at then

    Damart here I come!!"

    If hes filling 900 litres @ 64.54p per litre, that makes £580.86. Filling twice a year is close to £1200.00 a year. To me thats very close to gas.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 21st Jun 08, 4:11 PM
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    • 13,048 Thanks
    Cardew
    I service dozens of Boulter Camray 2's every year and not one of them falls below 86% and some will reach 90% but they are still worthy of a SEDBUK band B listing. The Boulter Camray 2 is not in the sedbuk listings because it has simply been superceeded. !
    Originally posted by Pilly57
    Interesting post.

    Do you measure the efficiency of an installed boiler with a flue gas analyser? which presumably measures combustion efficiency.

    I have never really understood the effect of the various factors that contribute to the overall efficiency of a boiler, and how that degrades with age.

    For instance I have a 20 year old Ideal Mexico Gas boiler that has a nominal rating of 65% - I would be interested to be able to determine its efficiency now.

    Watching the various Corgi engineers service the boiler over the years, and reading the full servicing manual, the servicing consists mainly of cleaning.

    The only adjustments are for the pilot light and gas pressure(if required - and I believe it never has needed adjusting ) so it is difficult to see how that will have a great effect on efficiency.
  • lindsaytob
    Hi Im not sure if this is a stupid idea or not. I have just had a refurbished camray boulter boiler fitted along with brand new tank pipes etc. I am also having to replace an open fireplace because the back boiler started leaking when we turned on the radiators. I want to install a stove woodburning preferably because I can Get a license from the forestry to cut trees for about £30 pa. I don't know whether it's stupid paying out for a stove or should I just replace my back boiler and keep the open fire. I want to be able to have a backup for the oil heating because the prices look like they are going sky high. If I get a stove, which one!!!!!!!!
    • twiglet98
    • By twiglet98 24th Jun 08, 12:04 AM
    • 779 Posts
    • 3,787 Thanks
    twiglet98
    I'm in a large old 3 bed semi in East Anglia, timber framed with concrete infill, 80s aluminium double glazing, loft insulated to depth of rafters. Open fire in sitting room, 10 rads with thermostatic valves, plus wall 'stat in middle of house set at 21C in winter. Previous owners installed a double-sized bath so we never use it, only shower, though the shower comes off the HW tank, it's not an electric one. Family is me and 4 'kids' between 16 and 26. The Camray 2 boiler is 22 years old and serviced most years. Electricity meter was on 'Domestic Night & Day' tariff when I came here in 1991 but changed to Economy 7 when the meter was compulsorily updated. No gas in the village, electric cooking on solid hotplates. Son uses electric convector in a caravan in the garden.

    My electricity monthly d/d has just gone up from £78 to £95 and I'm currently paying £140/month on the budget scheme for oil. I have a 2600 litre tank and get 1000 litres at a time, which lasts about 8 weeks in winter - I get four or five deliveries a year, depending how long the cold season is. The heating is on 0600 to 0800 and 1700 to 2130 from about Oct to April/May, water only on from 0600 to 0700 and 1800 to 1900 in summer. The oil payments were set in January and certainly won't cover this year's use.

    I've just bought some 2nd hand electric oil filled radiators in the hope they'll be cheaper if only in bedrooms. Planning to change the old Rayburn Rembrandt open fire for a woodburner with closed doors so we can keep it going most of the time. I'm having two trees down soon but the wood won't be seasoned enough for next winter. Just wonder if installing a back boiler for water only is worthwhile, or is it only worth doing if it's running the heating too?
  • janken
    60p a litre bought in Aberdeen yesterday and listening to the number of thefts have decided to reduce the quantity and buy more often

    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 24th Jun 08, 8:45 AM
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    Cardew
    Welcome to the forum.

    There are a couple of threads on the problems of incorporating solid fuel heating into a central heating system - I have such a system.

    There are safety issues which are not easy to overcome.

    Money spent on insulation - particularly the roof - will never be wasted.

    As you are on Economy 7 what is the ratio of usage i.e. Night units to day units?

    I would carefully consider getting some storage heaters instead of oil filled heaters and even consider putting one in the caravan.
    Last edited by Cardew; 24-06-2008 at 9:01 AM.
    • twiglet98
    • By twiglet98 25th Jun 08, 3:18 PM
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    twiglet98
    Thanks Cardew, pleased to have joined the forums after reading for quite a while.

    According to my May statement we'd used approx 2000 Day kWh and 1000 night kWh in the quarter. I understand Economy 7 is 'cheap' rate from midnight to 08.00 GMT and I try to ensure the dryer, washing machine and dishwasher are on then. Of course most use of lights/TV/computers and cooker will be during the evening, before midnight! Generally I use the electric immersion heater only when the oil runs out or the boiler breaks down - the house has a big 1200mm x 500mm cylinder, installed to cope with the ridiculous over-sized bath. Changing the bath for a normal one is on the wish-list, but I always seem to be paying the plumber for emergencies!

    If routing water and/or heating through a back boiler on a new, closed-door woodburner is not recommended, perhaps having a timer put on the immersion and using that during the summer would be worthwhile - I'm not sure how much oil goes just to heat water when the heating is off.

    My experience of storage heaters in the 70s/80s in a small flat and later, a large bungalow, were of huge, brick-lined boxes that had the place scorching hot at 06.00, cool by mid-afternoon and freezing by 20.00 - that would be deeply unpopular here, we like to be warm in the evening. I'm lining the curtains and will look at adding to the roof insulation. I think I read that grants may be available, though there is already a certain amount of fibreglass up there it's worth finding out.
    • amtrakuk
    • By amtrakuk 28th Jun 08, 7:37 PM
    • 612 Posts
    • 208 Thanks
    amtrakuk
    Enough people seemed to be worried about the price of oil heating to the extent of figures of £1400+ a year being quoted, people having to lock up and defend their oil tank. I think the days of oil heating is coming to and end.
    • wymondham
    • By wymondham 28th Jun 08, 7:57 PM
    • 4,820 Posts
    • 8,119 Thanks
    wymondham
    Oil seems to be v high to run looking at these posts. I have a 3 bed semi with gas fired rads and i pay £30 a month for heating+hot water...
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 28th Jun 08, 8:24 PM
    • 26,903 Posts
    • 13,048 Thanks
    Cardew
    Thanks Cardew, pleased to have joined the forums after reading for quite a while.

    According to my May statement we'd used approx 2000 Day kWh and 1000 night kWh in the quarter. I understand Economy 7 is 'cheap' rate from midnight to 08.00 GMT and I try to ensure the dryer, washing machine and dishwasher are on then. Of course most use of lights/TV/computers and cooker will be during the evening, before midnight! Generally I use the electric immersion heater only when the oil runs out or the boiler breaks down - the house has a big 1200mm x 500mm cylinder, installed to cope with the ridiculous over-sized bath. Changing the bath for a normal one is on the wish-list, but I always seem to be paying the plumber for emergencies!

    If routing water and/or heating through a back boiler on a new, closed-door woodburner is not recommended, perhaps having a timer put on the immersion and using that during the summer would be worthwhile - I'm not sure how much oil goes just to heat water when the heating is off.

    My experience of storage heaters in the 70s/80s in a small flat and later, a large bungalow, were of huge, brick-lined boxes that had the place scorching hot at 06.00, cool by mid-afternoon and freezing by 20.00 - that would be deeply unpopular here, we like to be warm in the evening. I'm lining the curtains and will look at adding to the roof insulation. I think I read that grants may be available, though there is already a certain amount of fibreglass up there it's worth finding out.
    Originally posted by twiglet98
    Firstly the Economy 7 hours vary and are not just midnight to 7 am and in any case vary with British Summer time. - so check!

    Your ratio of day/night electricity is good, but the more you can improve it the cheaper it will be.

    There is no doubt that if you have E7 then you should always use your immersion heater for Hot water(on E7 of course), In fact you should turn off your oil boiler during the summer.

    The problem with the old storage heaters was, as you say, that they leaked heat during the day and had run out at night.

    By all accounts the modern storage heaters are much better in that respect - but it is still not an ideal system - although as E7 electricity is much cheaper than oil, you can afforn to 'waste' some heat.

    Lastly, with the exception of double glazing, money spent on insulation is seldom wasted.
    • twiglet98
    • By twiglet98 4th Jul 08, 1:42 AM
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    twiglet98
    I checked the Economy 7 times with E-on and mine is 01.00 to 08.00 BST, midnight to 07.00 GMT - glad I checked, I've been putting laundry and dishwasher on just after 12 and should have been doing it before breakfast instead! I'll see about getting a timer fitted to the immersion, which is wired straight into the socket - thanks for the advice. I'm not clear how to work out the price of E7 vs oil for hot water only, and the extra-large cylinder (and immersion element) will make it more than averagely expensive, but it has to be worth trying. Many thanks for the advice.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 4th Jul 08, 9:48 AM
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    • 13,048 Thanks
    Cardew
    I'll see about getting a timer fitted to the immersion, which is wired straight into the socket - thanks for the advice. I'm not clear how to work out the price of E7 vs oil for hot water only, and the extra-large cylinder (and immersion element) will make it more than averagely expensive, but it has to be worth trying. Many thanks for the advice.
    Originally posted by twiglet98
    If your Immersion is heated on E7 you simply need to look at the price you pay for a kWh- around 4p. Electricity is 100% efficient so that is the cost.

    The cost of oil depends on the price you pay for oil and the efficiency of your boiler.

    A litre of oil contains 10.2 kWh, so approx 6.5p for a kWh at current prices around 65p/litre.

    The efficiency of your boiler can be between 50% for an ancient boiler to 95% for the very latest condensing boiler.

    So oil will cost anything between 7p to 13p for a kWh, with 10p being a reasonable average figure.
    • twiglet98
    • By twiglet98 4th Jul 08, 10:37 PM
    • 779 Posts
    • 3,787 Thanks
    twiglet98
    If your Immersion is heated on E7 you simply need to look at the price you pay for a kWh- around 4p. Electricity is 100% efficient so that is the cost.

    The cost of oil depends on the price you pay for oil and the efficiency of your boiler.

    A litre of oil contains 10.2 kWh, so approx 6.5p for a kWh at current prices around 65p/litre.

    The efficiency of your boiler can be between 50% for an ancient boiler to 95% for the very latest condensing boiler.

    So oil will cost anything between 7p to 13p for a kWh, with 10p being a reasonable average figure.
    Originally posted by Cardew

    What a star, thank you so much! Now it makes sense!
    • amtrakuk
    • By amtrakuk 8th Jul 08, 11:39 PM
    • 612 Posts
    • 208 Thanks
    amtrakuk
    Hurray to the oil fueled heaters out there. Crude has dropped nearly $10 a barrel. would be interesting to know if/when the savings will be passed on
    • dawnie1972
    • By dawnie1972 9th Jul 08, 10:33 AM
    • 2,396 Posts
    • 10,967 Thanks
    dawnie1972
    I'm moving into a property at the end of this month with oil central heating and its a scary thought as i'm told its going to be very expensive. Can anyone recommend the best places to buy oil from - i'm in Cambridgeshire.
    • Skintmama
    • By Skintmama 9th Jul 08, 12:46 PM
    • 458 Posts
    • 1,554 Thanks
    Skintmama
    Dawnie, you can buy oil in various ways.

    Look at Boilerjuice.com and their quote service will give you an idea of current prices. You can buy through them if you choose.

    See if there is an oil buying group in your area.....ask the neighbours....and you may be able to get discounts by buying together. If there isn't you may be able to start one if other people are interested.

    Buy as an individual but the key thing is that you must shop around! Phone a number of suppliers and find out their price per litre for that day. If you have a bulk order see if they will discount it.

    edited to add: I have not found that any one supplier is always the cheapest.

    The bigger the oil delivery the cheaper the unit price, so never order just 500 litres, go for a 1000 litres plus.
    Last edited by Skintmama; 09-07-2008 at 12:48 PM. Reason: as stated
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