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# 681
Guys Dad
Old 03-10-2010, 4:15 PM
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I take your first point, but I did not comment directly on your spat then. Just simply observing that after returning from a break plus a change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobilejunkie View Post
"though your knowledge and advice have improved now the penny has finally dropped on you know who)
That is presumably when I agree with you ??

So, can I ask calmly and politely, (1) what point did Oneaday make in his posts #646 and #651 that was so wrong and (b) what caused you to label him " a complete armchair amateur" which is not particularly pleasant for someone who was trying to help and whose help was, indeed, acknowledged by the person who received it?

Last edited by Guys Dad; 03-10-2010 at 4:18 PM.
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# 682
mobilejunkie
Old 03-10-2010, 5:59 PM
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What was wrong is perfectly clear; it is totally misleading to suggest that THIS dealer (in particular) would somehow adjust payments to help with the VAT rise - it's t&c specifically exclude it. The potential encouragement to prefer the only dealer I know of who clearly states that in their t&c because they might do the oppiste to what they state is just plain wrong - and anyone checking the t&c would know that straight away. Since most people don't and aren't aware of it, such naivety in saying any - that alone this - dealer will try to help by adjusting payments is simply cloud cuckoo land.

Last edited by mobilejunkie; 03-10-2010 at 6:01 PM.
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# 683
OneADay
Old 03-10-2010, 6:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobilejunkie View Post
What was wrong is perfectly clear; it is totally misleading to suggest that THIS dealer (in particular) would somehow adjust payments to help with the VAT rise - it's t&c specifically exclude it. The potential encouragement to prefer the only dealer I know of who clearly states that in their t&c because they might do the oppiste to what they state is just plain wrong - and anyone checking the t&c would know that straight away. Since most people don't and aren't aware of it, such naivety in saying any - that alone this - dealer will try to help by adjusting payments is simply cloud cuckoo land.
Read my comments http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...&postcount=651

Before twisting my words into trying to justify your arrogance and rudeness, read what I said "In 2011, with VAT rising, company like BMP have more chance of working out the right cashback amounts to be paid as they ask for all monthly bills to be sent for each claim."

In case of BMP, read the t&c, it mentions VAT in three places and nowhere does it mention cashback. And I did not quote or mention t&c or tell anyone to ignore anything. Do you understand? No course not.

7.1. Unless we indicate otherwise, all prices stated include VAT and delivery within the United Kingdom (excluding Eire). All Errors and Omissions are excepted.

"14.1.1. In the event that you are disconnected from your network for any reason within the period of 120 days from your initial billing date, you will be invoiced for the minimum sum of 240 GBP plus VAT per handset to cover the costs of the goods provided, loss of income and administration. Invoices will referred to Daniels Silverman Limited. All charges and legal fees incurred will be the responsibility of the customer and will be legally enforceable."

14.1.3. In the event that you elect to downgrade your tariff in the first 120 days from your initial billing date ("first period") we will invoice you the minimum sum of 100 GBP plus VAT per handset. The charge will be dependant on the tariff selected at the time of the downgrade. Should you change your tariff during the first 120 days from your initial billing date, either up or down, the "first period" starts again. It is in your interest not to change tariffs in the first 120 days from your initial billing date. Certain Networks may not allow you to change tariff within the first 6 months of your contract. Also see 14.1.5.

I cannot tell how BMP or any mobile retailer or even the electricity / gas companies will cope with VAT changing but they are all going to have to frig their systems.

And also read my comment http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...&postcount=646 which reads clearly

"TAT rise comes into affect, you could potentially be paying 2.5% extra on line rental and not getting that 2.5% cashback unless the dealers / mobile companies work out some way to protect the buyer."

Last edited by OneADay; 03-10-2010 at 6:43 PM.
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# 684
mobilejunkie
Old 03-10-2010, 8:05 PM
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[QUOTE=OneADay;37177582]Read my comments http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=37093764&postcount=651

Before twisting my words into trying to justify your arrogance and rudeness, read what I said "In 2011, with VAT rising, company like BMP have more chance of working out the right cashback amounts to be paid as they ask for all monthly bills to be sent for each claim."

In case of BMP, read the t&c, it mentions VAT in three places and nowhere does it mention cashback. And I did not quote or mention t&c or tell anyone to ignore anything. Do you understand? No course not."

I understand that nothing you have quoted is relevant and the only thing which is you have totally ignored. But then that sums up your scribblings. Try reading on from the bits you copied. All the way to 16.1.4.

Last edited by mobilejunkie; 03-10-2010 at 8:24 PM.
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# 685
OneADay
Old 03-10-2010, 8:28 PM
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[QUOTE=mobilejunkie;37180304]
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneADay View Post
Read my comments http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=37093764&postcount=651

Before twisting my words into trying to justify your arrogance and rudeness, read what I said "In 2011, with VAT rising, company like BMP have more chance of working out the right cashback amounts to be paid as they ask for all monthly bills to be sent for each claim."

In case of BMP, read the t&c, it mentions VAT in three places and nowhere does it mention cashback. And I did not quote or mention t&c or tell anyone to ignore anything. Do you understand? No course not."

I understand that nothing you have quoted is relevant and the only thing which is totally ignored. But then that sums up your scribblings. Try reading on from the bits you copied. All the way to 16.1.4.
Stop reading what I type if you think its scribblings because clearly you keep ignoring what I have pointed out. Their t&c do not mention change in VAT in relation to cashback directly. Nor did I mention t&c till you jumped in.

And I made my first comment regarding t&c specifically to highlight the issue that people might lose out by not getting 2.5%. And in my second comment, why I thought a buyer like BMP have more chance to cope with the change in the interest of the buyer. I did not say they would - I stated they have more chance.

Now go on repeat yourself ....
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# 686
mobilejunkie
Old 03-10-2010, 9:16 PM
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I presume you mean a dealer then buyer... hard to know sometimes. You'll never get it at all. Your comment was quite clear and so is 16.1.4 - the your attempts to give credit to Mobiles.co you are suggesting Buymobilephones is going to consider doing something which it has already voluntarily ruled out. You didn't mention the t&c until I repeatedly pointed out that you hadn't bothered to read them - something you repeatedly said wasn't important. You really don't understand the first thing about dealers or t&c so any comments regarding them should be taken with a huge wealth warning.

I go back to my original point; this dealer will ensure that you will NOT get back what you pay out. Others haven't actually done that - despite you saying this one is more likely to look after the iunterests of its customers. Utter nonsense as usual.
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# 687
shuriks
Old 03-10-2010, 10:10 PM
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Thx for the answers,

have one more question though. I chose T-Mobile tariff plan with unlimited internet buster. If you press info button for this plan it says:
"Unlimited Internet has a fair usage policy of 1GB a month." and in the table there are fares for MObile Internet calls saying "1 GB free after 0.73p for MB". Could any1 explain these terms to me? How can it be unlimited and still limited with 1 gb?
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# 688
daindian
Old 03-10-2010, 10:38 PM
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hi thats why i said you should go direct through t-mobile!!!! 20 600 mins unltd texts unlimtd 3gb net, the 1gb is the fair usage if u go over that t mobilt slow ur net down even more! i would go directly for a new contract esp on the wildfire!
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# 689
shuriks
Old 03-10-2010, 10:47 PM
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yeah, but T-mobile doesn't sell Motorola so I'm kinda stuck here. and what is unlimited 3gb internet?

When I went to T-mobile shop the other day they said me that 1 gb fair usage is for downloading only, but there are no limitations for browsing websites. Does the same apply for deals in BMP ?
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# 690
daindian
Old 03-10-2010, 11:49 PM
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i thought u wanted the wildfire a android based handset... by bad sorry! and yes the same applies the 3gb fair usage as apposed to 1gb fair usage applies to android handsets bought direct through t mobile for a new contract and an upgrade through ANYBODY!
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# 691
OneADay
Old 04-10-2010, 7:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobilejunkie View Post
I presume you mean a dealer then buyer... hard to know sometimes. You'll never get it at all. Your comment was quite clear and so is 16.1.4 - the your attempts to give credit to Mobiles.co you are suggesting Buymobilephones is going to consider doing something which it has already voluntarily ruled out. You didn't mention the t&c until I repeatedly pointed out that you hadn't bothered to read them - something you repeatedly said wasn't important. You really don't understand the first thing about dealers or t&c so any comments regarding them should be taken with a huge wealth warning.

I go back to my original point; this dealer will ensure that you will NOT get back what you pay out. Others haven't actually done that - despite you saying this one is more likely to look after the iunterests of its customers. Utter nonsense as usual.
If you have seen that clause, why not point it out? I did not refer to t&c till you started going on about them and throwing them in my face. That particular clause is in there on their t&c updated 10/8/10, I have t&c which I got for a purchase I made last year which has not got that clause. So why not point that out.

I pointed out that people might potentially lose out 2.5% in my original post and that if retailers wanted to act in interest of customers, BMP might have a greater chance to determine the right cashback amount. I did not say they were more likely (as you have just said) than others. Next you are throwing t&c at me.

Even the new clause is open to interpretation. A judge would rule that as unfair, VAT rise will impact all industries so wait and see what happens.
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# 692
Guys Dad
Old 04-10-2010, 8:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobilejunkie View Post
What was wrong is perfectly clear; it is totally misleading to suggest that THIS dealer (in particular) would somehow adjust payments to help with the VAT rise - it's t&c specifically exclude it. The potential encouragement to prefer the only dealer I know of who clearly states that in their t&c because they might do the oppiste to what they state is just plain wrong - and anyone checking the t&c would know that straight away. Since most people don't and aren't aware of it, such naivety in saying any - that alone this - dealer will try to help by adjusting payments is simply cloud cuckoo land.
You may be completely correct in your interpretation of the t&c. However, as you have written many, many times, t&c can change overnight.

The point is that Oneaday highlighted a potential VAT issue which provoked an insult from you within 2 posts. Was it necessary to take that line? It seems that you are incapable of giving advice or even correcting someone without lacing it with bile/vitriol. This is what demeans you as a contributor and you do have a tendency to give the impression that you alone are the sole font of knowledge.

I acknowledge - as do many others - that you do have a vast experience in cashbacks, but this is the MSE Mobile Phones Forum, where MSE stands for "MoneySavingExpert", not "MobileJunkie's Soapbox Exclusively".

So, why not try being polite for a couple of weeks, by all means correcting what you believe to be bad advice, but constructively rather than in an adversarial way? Others manage it and it would be great - as well as cutting out spat posts - if you could be a little more tolerant to others.
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# 693
mobilejunkie
Old 04-10-2010, 9:12 AM
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Actually the two of you only manage that sometimes - and it was you attacking me and some others when we were warning about another dealer over a long period, rather than the other way round. Bad advice is bad advice and neglect of research results in that (among other things). I also know more about this particular topic than I will announce on here - but then I know what your response to that will be too, even though I was proven to be correct last time after months of lambasting. I chose not to specify the t&c originally for very good reason; I am also fully aware of when it came in and that it wasn't there before (among other things not mentioned on here which are significant enough to allow no room for doubt about whether this dealer would adjust any cashback to "help" its cutomers in 2011).
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# 694
mobilejunkie
Old 04-10-2010, 9:18 AM
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HE didn't highlight it - I did. His contribution was to suggest that this dealer might be in a "better position" to "help" its customers; in fact the reverse is plainly true and for much of the exchanges he stated that it wasn't necessary to read the t&c - something both of you have said or done with another dealer previously when I pointed out the significance of their t&c. Anyone posting when choosing to ignore t&c are always liable to offer bad advice and poor comfort. HE didn't raise the issue of the effect of VAT - I did. He merely postured that this dealer might be in a better to position to "help" its customers when the plain fact is that whether they are or not is irrelevant. They have already set out their stool to ensure they won't. There is more that I will not post on here, but that is their stance. I am also fully aware of when the clause came in etc; but that's pretty meaningless from someone who resolutely took the stance that there was no need to even read them (repeatedly) and (when they finally did) missed the relevant one by a million miles.
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# 695
Guys Dad
Old 04-10-2010, 9:39 AM
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These last 2 posts demonstrate far more eloquently than I can just what point I was making. Bitterness, self glorification and anger seem far higher up your agenda than polite helping. You had a chance to offer to be more constructive and polite but declined.A Great pity.

However, as I don't want to hijack this thread or get the mods to close it, I won't be drawn to comment again on this thread about your attitude. (Might do on any other threads, though) but I will correct one factual point - I have always advised reading t&c - after many years in business that is one of my golden rules.

Last edited by Guys Dad; 04-10-2010 at 9:43 AM.
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# 696
Quentin
Old 04-10-2010, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guys Dad View Post
However, as I don't want to hijack this thread or get the mods to close it, I won't be drawn to comment again on this thread about your attitude. (Might do on any other threads, though)..........
And you don't like being called troll????
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# 697
OneADay
Old 04-10-2010, 4:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobilejunkie View Post
HE didn't highlight it - I did. His contribution was to suggest that this dealer might be in a "better position" to "help" its customers; in fact the reverse is plainly true and for much of the exchanges he stated that it wasn't necessary to read the t&c - something both of you have said or done with another dealer previously when I pointed out the significance of their t&c. Anyone posting when choosing to ignore t&c are always liable to offer bad advice and poor comfort. HE didn't raise the issue of the effect of VAT - I did. He merely postured that this dealer might be in a better to position to "help" its customers when the plain fact is that whether they are or not is irrelevant. They have already set out their stool to ensure they won't. There is more that I will not post on here, but that is their stance. I am also fully aware of when the clause came in etc; but that's pretty meaningless from someone who resolutely took the stance that there was no need to even read them (repeatedly) and (when they finally did) missed the relevant one by a million miles.
When did I say whatever stance you keep protraying me to take?
I read my t&c for the contract I have which ends in November.

If you can't deal with other people having opinions, why the hell are you on this forum.

And I did not posture anything, you did. I have commented on the impact of VAT and potential loss to customers of 2.5% unless dealers act in good faith. then you come on here and call me an "armchair amateur", banging on about me not reading t&c which I did not even mention - until you started going on about them.

If we are talking t&c, the clause you refer to was added by BMP on 10th Aug 10 - its open to challenge in my opinion since VAT changes do not happen often. From the earlier t&c from BMP, they do not have that clause. Point that out why don't you. In meantime, we will see if any networks absorb the 2.5% increase or not or try to push it onto the consumer and hence get a lot of irate customers.

Last edited by OneADay; 04-10-2010 at 4:27 PM.
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# 698
mobilejunkie
Old 04-10-2010, 11:56 PM
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I'm sure they'll be terrified of that. Just as judges would look at such a legal opinion as yours. As for the rest, there is much you aren't aware of and I won't enlighten you. I am fully aware of the different t&c and the whole point of my original warning was what was going to happen with this dealer in January. Your contract ending in November 2010 has absolutley no bearing on anything. As for your pointless pontifications on dealers being concerned to help their customers or networks caring about theirs - it's laughable and flies in the face of most of the complaints across these forums (as well as the facts, including the t&c of this dealer.

As for the rest; your grammar makes the sense of whatever it is you are saying undecipherable.
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# 699
Lynsey
Old 08-10-2010, 12:54 PM
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Anyone else expecting a payment in the next few weeks??
Mine is 14 days from the 5th October - so anytime up until the 19th would be ok. Let's see if they can keep to their T&C's this time, fingers crossed. I'll update asap once received and obviously state whether they are back on track (for me anyway).

Lynsey
**** Sealed Pot Challenge 2014 (No. 7) - Member #96 - Target 1000 (2 - 350.00, 1 - 524.00, 50p - 50.00, 20p - 40.00 - Total 964.00 (890 of it banked)) ****
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# 700
glenderg
Old 08-10-2010, 2:50 PM
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ME tooooooo
Be good to the young on their way up you might need them on your way down.
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