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  • FIRST POST
    star2007
    Making home made seitan? (veggie food)
    • #1
    • 11th Feb 09, 11:02 PM
    Making home made seitan? (veggie food) 11th Feb 09 at 11:02 PM
    I bought a pack of fresh seitan today from the health food shop. It's devilishly delish, but at about £2.70 for a smallish steak, it's not very old style. (sorry for the dreadful pun )

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_gluten_(food) ... (have fixed prob with link now)

    Just wondering if any of you veggie Old Stylers have ever had a go at making your own. My friends tried to make some once, and they said it came out really strangely spongy, so I'm a bit apprehensive about having a go.

    What sort of flour should I use? Is the strong white bread making flour the best? Is it possible to buy Vital Wheat Gluten flour anywhere in London/ the south? (Otherwise will have to pester relatives in America to bring some over next time!) What are the best flavourings to use for the broth?

    I'd love to be able to make the chickpea cutlets in the Veganomicon cookbook...

    Sorry, so many questions... please throw any tips and encouragement my way! Thanks!
    Last edited by star2007; 12-02-2009 at 9:30 AM. Reason: link seemed to have got mangled
Page 1
    • Penelope Penguin
    • By Penelope Penguin 12th Feb 09, 7:16 AM
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    Penelope Penguin
    • #2
    • 12th Feb 09, 7:16 AM
    • #2
    • 12th Feb 09, 7:16 AM
    Just wondering if any of you veggie Old Stylers have ever had a go at making your own. My friends tried to make some once, and they said it came out really strangely spongy, so I'm a bit apprehensive about having a go.
    Originally posted by star2007
    Is this what you're after :confused:

    Penny. x
    Last edited by Penelope Penguin; 13-02-2009 at 3:00 PM.
    Badgers at the bottom of our garden
  • star2007
    • #3
    • 12th Feb 09, 8:40 AM
    • #3
    • 12th Feb 09, 8:40 AM
    Hi Penelope,

    I believe that post was referring to Soba, which are a type of noodles, and miso, which is a type of flavouring paste in Japanese food.

    Seitan is something different entirely... you can either get it in vacuum packs where it looks like a steak (it is a vegetarian meat substitute)... or in tins where it is often referred to as (rather unappetisingly) 'Mock Duck'.

    Or making your own, it is basically made by kneading a flour dough for ages in water, then steaming, but I'm not quite sure about the refinements in technique!

    Hope that clarifies a bit!
    • Penelope Penguin
    • By Penelope Penguin 12th Feb 09, 8:47 AM
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    Penelope Penguin
    • #4
    • 12th Feb 09, 8:47 AM
    • #4
    • 12th Feb 09, 8:47 AM
    Hi Penelope,

    I believe that post was referring to Soba, which are a type of noodles, and miso, which is a type of flavouring paste in Japanese food.

    Seitan is something different entirely... you can either get it in vacuum packs where it looks like a steak (it is a vegetarian meat substitute)... or in tins where it is often referred to as (rather unappetisingly) 'Mock Duck'.

    Or making your own, it is basically made by kneading a flour dough for ages in water, then steaming, but I'm not quite sure about the refinements in technique!

    Hope that clarifies a bit!
    Originally posted by star2007
    I'm not veggie, but I do eat a lot of meat-free food. Hope I'm not offending anyone, but I've never understood why anyone who doesn't want to eat meat will eat something that resembles meat :confused:

    Penny. x
    Badgers at the bottom of our garden
    • kafkathecat
    • By kafkathecat 12th Feb 09, 9:07 AM
    • 507 Posts
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    kafkathecat
    • #5
    • 12th Feb 09, 9:07 AM
    • #5
    • 12th Feb 09, 9:07 AM
    hello!
    I made it once years ago. You make a dough with bread flour and then repeatedly rinse it until the water runs clear. Then you can boil it up in some stock or apparently bake, fry or steam. Sorry, I don't have any amounts or times. It was very nice though and even the cat like it.
  • weezl74
    • #6
    • 12th Feb 09, 9:10 AM
    • #6
    • 12th Feb 09, 9:10 AM
    I bought a pack of fresh seitan today from the health food shop. It's devilishly delish, but at about £2.70 for a smallish steak, it's not very old style. (sorry for the dreadful pun )

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_gluten_(food)
    Originally posted by star2007

    Hi Star2007, I tried your link but I think wiki have removed that article, have you got any other links to show us what you mean? I'm intrigued by this delish veggie food!

    Love Weezl x

    Jonathan 'Fergie' Fergus William, born 05/03/09, 7lb 4.4oz
    Benjamin 'Kezzie' Kester Jacob, born 18/03/10, 7lb 5oz
    cash neutral gifts 2011, value of purchased gifts/actual paid/amount earnt to cover it £67/£3.60/£0
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  • star2007
    • #7
    • 12th Feb 09, 9:19 AM
    • #7
    • 12th Feb 09, 9:19 AM
    Penny,

    Interesting point! and no, you haven't offended me lol

    I think that some veggie food can be 'meaty' in the sense of being hearty and satisfying, without being 'meaty' in the sense of being an analogue to a bit of animal flesh on the plate.

    A nice big, marinaded grilled portobello mushroom comes to mind for the former category.

    Whereas something like quorn, made in industrial sized vats of some weird concoction and mycoprotein made into a stringy, muscular like texture is pretty freaky, IMO.

    Seitan, to me, is pleasantly substantial and flavoured, without being freakily meat textured (in the vacuum pack form... the stuff in tins does look a bit too spookily like duck!) It also has the added bonus of being a traditional foodstuff of the East for 100s of years, and hence can be home-made.... if I had the confidence to take a leap and have a go, as it does have the reputation for being a bit tricky to make!

    I think the main issue for veggies is ethics rather than taste, in that animals didn't suffer to produce a meal, and you don't have all the environmental implications & pollution of animal agriculture.
    • twinkle_star
    • By twinkle_star 12th Feb 09, 9:22 AM
    • 342 Posts
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    twinkle_star
    • #8
    • 12th Feb 09, 9:22 AM
    • #8
    • 12th Feb 09, 9:22 AM
    Hi weezl,

    If you look up seitan on wikipedia it should work.
    • Penelope Penguin
    • By Penelope Penguin 12th Feb 09, 9:33 AM
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    Penelope Penguin
    • #9
    • 12th Feb 09, 9:33 AM
    • #9
    • 12th Feb 09, 9:33 AM
    Hi Star2007, I tried your link but I think wiki have removed that article, have you got any other links to show us what you mean? I'm intrigued by this delish veggie food!

    Love Weezl x
    Originally posted by weezl74
    It's here Those tins of "mock duck" look

    Penny. x
    Badgers at the bottom of our garden
  • weezl74
    Ah! Thanks.

    when I googled mock duck recipes, there was loads of things you could do with the tinned stuff. So then I tried 'how to make mock duck' and got this linkie

    which looks fairly straightforward!

    Star2007, howsabout you make it, post about it and then we'll try it? (go on youknowyawant to!) Except penny who's feeling a little green round the gills at the thought!

    Jonathan 'Fergie' Fergus William, born 05/03/09, 7lb 4.4oz
    Benjamin 'Kezzie' Kester Jacob, born 18/03/10, 7lb 5oz
    cash neutral gifts 2011, value of purchased gifts/actual paid/amount earnt to cover it £67/£3.60/£0
    january grocery challenge, feed 4 of us for £40
    • Penelope Penguin
    • By Penelope Penguin 12th Feb 09, 9:56 AM
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    Penelope Penguin
    I think the main issue for veggies is ethics rather than taste, in that animals didn't suffer to produce a meal, and you don't have all the environmental implications & pollution of animal agriculture.
    Originally posted by star2007
    That'll be vegans, not vegetarians To produce milk or eggs, surplus males are born/hatched, which have no value, so are culled. I can undersatnd being a vegan for ethical reasons, but not a vegetarian :confused:

    Penny. x
    Badgers at the bottom of our garden
  • star2007
    Hi Weezl,

    thanks for the linky there!

    Yup.... I'm feeling a bit intrepid so I'll take a trip into uncharted O/S waters and make my own, keeping a travel diary as I go, and will report back to OSHQ with my research findings...

    Might not be till Monday however, as Mr Star is coming to visit me later for a long Valentine's romantic weekend!

    Will keep you posted & update you soon!

    Star x
  • star2007
    Hi Penny,

    I use 'veggies' as a short hand to cover both vegetarians & vegans. I don't use either milk or eggs... however I'm technically not quite vegan as I do occasionally use honey (undecided about the issue), I'm still wearing out my old leather shoes (don't purchase them new now however), etc.

    Being vegan is a whole lifestyle package I don't feel I can completely live up to at the moment (i.e. thinking of things like animal ingredients in the dyes in our clothes) etc.

    However, I try to live as environmentally & ethically as I can, which to me overlaps about 98.55% with veganism.
    • foreign correspondent
    • By foreign correspondent 12th Feb 09, 10:26 AM
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    foreign correspondent
    ooh mock duck - this used to be my big treat when I was a teenage vegetarian - now I am a grown up omnivore I still like it!

    However, I am pretty certain that this (or something similar) is passed off as chicken at my local chinese takeaway!
    - almost a legend -
    FC, you are fast becoming the Ted Hutchinson of the pet forums
  • star2007
    However, I am pretty certain that this (or something similar) is passed off as chicken at my local chinese takeaway!
    Originally posted by foreign correspondent
    Oh well, at least they're passing off something from the vegetable kingdom, rather than something unmentionable from the animal one! :rolleyes:
    • foreign correspondent
    • By foreign correspondent 12th Feb 09, 10:43 AM
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    foreign correspondent
    absolutely, I never buy chicken unless I am cooking it myself, however, OH has had things with it in a couple of times, and it is definately not chicken - he cannot tell, but I can - the structure and texture is all wrong! I would actually buy it if I knew for certain it wasnt going to be chicken :-)
    - almost a legend -
    FC, you are fast becoming the Ted Hutchinson of the pet forums
  • star2007
    ooh I think I know what you mean about the strange texture of the 'chicken' in the chow mein, back from when I was an omni! I just thought it was a from a cheapo cut of meat. Even if it were actually seitan, I'm guessing it would be simmered in chicken broth, so not suitable... but maybe worth asking? :confused:
  • baby_fuzz
    ooh I think I know what you mean about the strange texture of the 'chicken' in the chow mein, back from when I was an omni! I just thought it was a from a cheapo cut of meat. Even if it were actually seitan, I'm guessing it would be simmered in chicken broth, so not suitable... but maybe worth asking? :confused:
    Originally posted by star2007
    The cheapo chicken they use in the takeaways IS chicken, but it has been mixed with shedloads of water and tenderisers in giant cement mixers...
    urgh!
    • foreign correspondent
    • By foreign correspondent 13th Feb 09, 2:57 PM
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    foreign correspondent
    hmm, I am not sure it is chicken at all though - the structure is fibrous, but not quite the same as real chicken... I have tried googling to find out in the past but without success.

    If anyone manages to make the seitan and it is good, please do let me know!

    ETA - there is a youtube here showing how to make it! it has a very long intro but is useful http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRNxKKOncY4

    and part 2 - how to cook it!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Tu64T4Zo34&feature=related
    Last edited by foreign correspondent; 13-02-2009 at 3:06 PM.
    - almost a legend -
    FC, you are fast becoming the Ted Hutchinson of the pet forums
    • Caterina
    • By Caterina 13th Feb 09, 4:07 PM
    • 5,227 Posts
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    Caterina
    I have made seitan before, a long time ago when I was young and macrobiotic - will try to give you some direction but can't remember the exact recipe, I think it is more a case of trial and error.

    If all fails, here is another link on how to make seitan "properly":

    http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cookbook:Seitan

    What I did was start a dough with wholemeal flour and water, then placed the dough in a bowl of cold water under the tap and kept kneading and rinsing away the starch, as soon as the water got a bit cloudy I would change it. I know that some people leave the dough submerged in water overnight but I always worried that it would dissolve completely.

    I kept kneading and kneading and rinsing and rinsing until the dough became seitan.

    I suppose you could start small and then once you got the hang of it you can increase the volume.

    Good luck, I would be interested in your successful result as many times I have thought I would give it another go, much cheaper than buying industrial made veg protein!

    I also used to make tofu (fiddly but very satisfying and sooooo much cheaper than shop bought!).

    HTH
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