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  • FIRST POST
    clairehi
    A&L "instant" property valuation - Halifax house price calculator
    • #1
    • 10th Feb 09, 8:27 PM
    A&L "instant" property valuation - Halifax house price calculator 10th Feb 09 at 8:27 PM
    Hi all

    A&L told me on the phone today that we currently have a 78% ltv on our house. apparently they work out property values using the halifax house price calculator. this gave me a shock as the online version of the halifax house price calculator gives me a house price (for 2008q4) which equates to an ltv of 70%. their agent couldnt tell me if they are using a different version of the halifax tool but clearly something is different.

    obviously this is a significant difference as we do not qualify for their better mortgage rates with this higher ltv.

    do all lenders use this system now? does anyone know where they get the numbers from and why the "retail" version is giving a different result?
Page 1
  • feisty1
    • #2
    • 10th Feb 09, 8:31 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Feb 09, 8:31 PM
    is this the one you have?

    http://www.hbosplc.com/economy/housepricecalculator.asp
  • clairehi
    • #3
    • 10th Feb 09, 9:02 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Feb 09, 9:02 PM
    Thats the fella.
  • Chris Type R
    • #4
    • 10th Feb 09, 9:47 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Feb 09, 9:47 PM
    I had a go with the calculator:

    if I use 2004Q2 to 2008Q4 as the date range, then 2004Q1 to 2008Q4 as the date range, the answer that is spewed out is rather different 240864 vs 259346 !

    How can one quarter make that much difference (8%) :confused: 2004Q3 as a start date is even more depressing.

    What date should one be using, offer date, survey date, completion date...
    Last edited by Chris Type R; 10-02-2009 at 9:51 PM.
  • lucy2308
    • #5
    • 10th Feb 09, 11:15 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Feb 09, 11:15 PM
    For once I agree with a banking measure. For me anyway! I have tried various different dates and all are within a !% tolerence of what my house was valued at during that quarter.
  • Torby
    • #6
    • 11th Feb 09, 9:20 AM
    • #6
    • 11th Feb 09, 9:20 AM
    YIKES!!!!!!!



    House price calculator

    An average house, in the Northern Ireland region valued at 149000 in 2008 Q1 would be worth 100765 in 2008 Q4.

    A change of -32.4 percent.

    bit of a serious generalisation there....thank goodness I dont have a mortgage on the property any more!
    Last edited by Torby; 11-02-2009 at 9:25 AM.
    I'm now a retired teacher... hooray ...

    Those who can do, those who can't, come to me for lessons

  • Fliss M
    • #7
    • 11th Feb 09, 9:57 AM
    • #7
    • 11th Feb 09, 9:57 AM
    Interested if anybody could tell me what date I should use? We signed the paperwork on a new house and had the mortgage all sorted in Feb 06, but didnt move in till Sept 06. So do I use Q1 or Q3? (not that it makes a great deal of difference, but I like to know where I stand)
    Back to my comping ways. 527.89 in wins so far since August 13
    Married for 9 years with 2 beautiful daughters

    Praying for that Lotto win!
  • 1978
    • #8
    • 11th Feb 09, 10:15 AM
    • #8
    • 11th Feb 09, 10:15 AM
    what a load of rubbish.

    we bought our place for 150k in the summer of 2007. a house has gone up for sale on our street (identical house, less our conservatory) at a price of 155k in the last fortnight. granted it hasn't sold yet, but it's good to get a feeling of valuation.

    this valuation tool has the value of our place at less than 120k. :confused: :rolleyes:
    Last edited by 1978; 11-02-2009 at 11:28 AM.
  • pritsim
    • #9
    • 11th Feb 09, 11:33 AM
    • #9
    • 11th Feb 09, 11:33 AM
    its absoulte rubbish...how the banks value your house...my house is 2 years old,when doin a remortgage i put at it 300k i bought for 300k..thats after geting an estate agent...to value it at,and other houses sold..not exact same size..but sq fooot similar..all were goin around for 300 to 320k..albeit all new.and also some inthe market which were smaller than my house for 290 -310k.and mine was valued at 230!!!after mcuuh argueing and fightig got it increased to 250!!
  • feisty1
    pritsim: What is the valuation this calculator gives?
  • Hillfly
    Well I used that calculator. It valued mine at 281K.
    However last month I had a valuer come round for a mortgage app who valued my house at 295k. Not a massive difference can makeor break the deal when it comes to LTV issues.
    Fortune's always hiding, I've looked everywhere......
  • pixiepie99
    what a load of rubbish.

    we bought our place for 150k in the summer of 2007. a house has gone up for sale on our street (identical house, less our conservatory) at a price of 155k in the last fortnight. granted it hasn't sold yet, but it's good to get a feeling of valuation.

    this valuation tool has the value of our place at less than 120k. :confused: :rolleyes:
    Originally posted by 1978
    I think the key thing here is it hasn't sold yet. You have no idea how close this figure is to the estate agent's valuation or if anyone has viewed it. Therefore you have no idea whether 155k is an accurate valuation. I would suggest that it probably isn't and if they want to sell the house right now they are going to have to knock money of that price.

    I'd say less than 120k may well be correct.
  • blued
    I'm a little surprised to find that calculator quite accurate! I had my house valued in April 2008 at 170k and the calculator said it would 175795 in Q4 2008.
  • clairehi
    Well no-one's been able to answer my original q but I spoke to L&C today who tell me that most lenders use either the Nationwide or Halifax hp calculator. I just tried the Nationwide and that is giving me a compeltely different figure. However these are all based on regional statistics so are almost meaningless, as take no account of local variations and the type of property.

    I am waiting for L&C to ring back but I just dont know whether its worth paying for a valuation.
  • HelpWhereIcan
    The figures given by the HBOS online calculator (while a good general guide) are not really to be relied upon IMHO as they are based on widespread Regional data

    eg I come under Yorkshire & The Humber but that covers everything from my 'desireable' East Riding Village to the unoccupied financial suicide flats in Leeds city centre.

    The figures this calculator gives are also different to the Nationwide (depending on area)

    http://www.nationwide.co.uk/hpi/calculator.asp

    They are different again to the Land Registry.

    The problem with trying to compare them to the figures lenders use is that many lenders will use more 'sophisticated' models that look at smaller areas and value based on parameters set by the lender.

    My personal opinion is that most lenders are currently building in an extra cushion in their automated valuations to account for concerns they may have over the level of previous valuations and the fact that they can only be, at best, a general indication.

    In my experience the only way to currently challenge an automated valuation is to ask that they instruct a physical valuation by a surveyor.

    The issue is that it will cost you money with no guarantee it will come out any higher especially if the surveyor is a cautious one.

    It is also a bit of a one chance option as they will be unlikely to accept any challenges to the surveyor's valuation.

    This means that it is important to be as sure as possible of your figures and you can only do this by getting as many different guides as possible - from the 3 above, to using recent sold price information in your street from the likes of Rightmove and using specialist tools like those available to brokers (and AFAIK the public) at a cost such as UK Valuation, Hometrack etc etc

    That way, armed with a good idea you can decide whether it is worth risking the money on getting a physical valuation done. Otherwise you will need to accept that the house is not worth what you hoped or that you will need to look at different deals/lenders.

    I currently have 3 clients having physical valuations done to challenge an automated one and, based on our research, we (and the customers) expect one to come in much higher than the automated; the second to slightly higher (but enough); and the third to be a long shot (but one the customer feels it worth spending 75 on).

    Your odds may be no better than 50/50.

    Good Luck
    I am an IFA (and boss o' t'swings idst)
    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as an IFA, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
  • jayremoh
    i tried with 2 values, the price when built in 2002 Q3 and the price when i bought in 2006 Q4

    HALIFAX
    An average house, in the North West region valued at 190000 in 2006 Q4 would be worth 162404 in 2008 Q4.
    A change of -14.5 percent.

    NATIONWIDE
    A property located in North West which was valued at 190000 in Q4 of 2006, would be worth approximately 168186 in Q4 of 2008.
    This is equivalent to a change of -11.48%.

    ------OR-------

    HALIFAX
    An average house, in the North West region valued at 115000 in 2002 Q3 would be worth 182655 in 2008 Q4.
    A change of 58.8 percent.

    NATIONWIDE
    A property located in North West which was valued at 115000 in Q3 of 2002, would be worth approximately 177457 in Q4 of 2008.
    This is equivalent to a change of 54.31%.


    ITS THE SAME BLEEDING HOUSE!

    so my house which i paid 190k is worth anywhere between 162k and 182k, lovely.

    utter rubbish!
    Last edited by jayremoh; 11-02-2009 at 3:26 PM.
  • clairehi
    wish you could give more than one "thanks" for an extra helpful post!

    lenders' valuation fees seem to differ wildly - I would be happy to risk 75 for a valuation though.

    we live in a small town and there are very few comparables (1 detached house sold in Q4 2008), so the valuation is anyone's guess. If no houses are selling do they value the house at 0?

    both the publicly available calculators (Halifax and Nwide) and the LR as well tell me that our LTV is lower than 75% but the A&L say differently.

    stop press - L&C have suggested that we apply for a mortgage with a lender that offers free (physical) valuations. they have advised me that the product fee of 995 can be added to the loan. in the event the property is downvalued, and they offer us a less sttractive rate, we could cancel the application without having to pay the product fee. this sounds a bit too good to be true to me...?
  • HelpWhereIcan
    wish you could give more than one "thanks" for an extra helpful post!
    Originally posted by clairehi
    thanks

    lenders' valuation fees seem to differ wildly - I would be happy to risk 75 for a valuation though.
    Originally posted by clairehi
    Often when it is a challenge to an automated one on the likes of a product transfer (taking a new deal with your current lender) they will only charge 75-99.

    If it is a full scale remortgage it could range from nothing on a deal with a free valuation to the full fee which can be in the 00s.

    we live in a small town and there are very few comparables (1 detached house sold in Q4 2008), so the valuation is anyone's guess. If no houses are selling do they value the house at 0?
    Originally posted by clairehi
    probably one of the reasons you have some issues as most automated valuation models rely quite heavily on sold information to value a property.

    both the publicly available calculators (Halifax and Nwide) and the LR as well tell me that our LTV is lower than 75% but the A&L say differently.
    Originally posted by clairehi
    Unfortunately the publically available calculators are too general to be anything but a guide.

    stop press - L&C have suggested that we apply for a mortgage with a lender that offers free (physical) valuations. they have advised me that the product fee of 995 can be added to the loan. in the event the property is downvalued, and they offer us a less sttractive rate, we could cancel the application without having to pay the product fee. this sounds a bit too good to be true to me...?
    Originally posted by clairehi
    An option but I would also ask them whether A&L will agree to a physical valuation and what the cost would be. If quite low and you are sure it could be worth trying
    I am an IFA (and boss o' t'swings idst)
    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as an IFA, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
  • usignuolo
    I am astonished by the calculator supplied above because it assigns one overall value to all property in Greater London. So a house in areas like say Barking (east London) or Haringey (north east London), where house prices are relatively low for all sorts of reasons, is assigned the same LTV value over a comparable period as one in Hampstead or Kensington. For example I entered my friend's house in Twickenham (south west London) which she purchased for 40,000 in 1983. True it was pretty run down and she has had done a lot to it - but it sold recently for 620,000. The Halifax calculator has it increasing to 266,000 in that period. Bonkers.
  • 1978
    I think the key thing here is it hasn't sold yet. You have no idea how close this figure is to the estate agent's valuation or if anyone has viewed it. Therefore you have no idea whether 155k is an accurate valuation. I would suggest that it probably isn't and if they want to sell the house right now they are going to have to knock money of that price.

    I'd say less than 120k may well be correct.
    Originally posted by pixiepie99
    whilst i agree it hasn't sold yet, it's only been on the market 2 weeks.

    that last part - why do you think it may well be correct without knowing the street and recent trends on that estate? to say i have no idea is a bit flippant.

    not that it matters, mind.
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