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  • Canucklehead
    • #2
    • 2nd Feb 09, 10:03 AM
    • #2
    • 2nd Feb 09, 10:03 AM
    My boiler has decided that as it is snowing, it would be a great time to break down. It was only fitted in October 2006.

    According to my BIL it is looking like the PCB unit has packed in meaning no power to the boiler.

    Has anyone else had a similar problem with the IDEAL ISAR HE24 boiler?

    It was installed under the Warmfront scheme but I believe the warranty ended in October 2008.
    Originally posted by prettypennies
    Good morning: Ideal Isar and Icos boilers are notorious for PCB failure(among other faults)...unfortunately these boilers are still being installed under the Warmfront scheme

    HTH

    Canucklehead
    Last edited by Canucklehead; 02-02-2009 at 10:06 AM.
    Ask to see CIPHE (Chartered Institute of Plumbing & Heating Engineering)
  • prettypennies
    • #3
    • 2nd Feb 09, 10:05 AM
    • #3
    • 2nd Feb 09, 10:05 AM
    Am I likely to have any joy getting Ideal or Warmfront to replace it?
    Or is it down to me to find a replacement?
    If so, any ideas about the best place to source it?
    cheers
    Twins, twice the laughs, twice the fun, twice the mess!

    2012 in 2012 member #114 8.33/2012
  • Canucklehead
    • #4
    • 2nd Feb 09, 10:17 AM
    • #4
    • 2nd Feb 09, 10:17 AM
    Hi... I doubt you'll get any joy but one never knows! Contact Ideal and ask about a fixed price repair...as you're now on a slippery slope with this boiler and I doubt this will be the last problem with your Isar look into getting a service contract(my brother-in-law did this as advised by my OH, a RGI, and he has saved a bundle to date as PCBs, heat exchangers etc are pricey parts).

    HTH

    Canucklehead
    Ask to see CIPHE (Chartered Institute of Plumbing & Heating Engineering)
  • hayley86
    • #5
    • 3rd May 09, 7:04 PM
    • #5
    • 3rd May 09, 7:04 PM
    I too have had a problem with my Ideal Isar. It was installed in March 2007 but I did not move in until March 2008 (it was a brand new flat). This month I had problems with hot water (was only getting lukewarm in bathroom but heating and kitchen no problem). I have British gas homecare cover so they came out and told me that I had a sludge problem (after the boiler being in use for 14 months!) and although he had cleaned some sludge off to permanently repair the boiler I needed a new heater exchange and a hydroflow system fitted. Within 12 hours the boiler had completely gone. Another British gas engineer came out. Looked over boiler and told me the PCB had blown. He also listed a load of other repairs that needed doing that totalled almost 1000 (unsure whether this included all labour charges). Obviously I was extremely angry on hearing this and contacted the builders for the development. After some intense conversations they arranged for the original plumbers that installed the boiler to come out an look at all the defects themselves, and for the manufacturers to come out.

    The original installers of the boiler found that more than half the problems listed by british gas did not exist (these people actually tested things and looked for the scale reducer, whereas the british gas man tested NOTHING and looked no further than the actual boiler for anything). They did admit that there was some bad wiring, though that wasnt dangerous, and are coming back out to fix it. The engineer from Ideal found that the only thing that was at fault was the PCB and replaced it straight away. He admitted that there is a problem with those PCB's for that model, so they have been redesigned. He installed this new PCB for me. He found no other faults with the boiler. And told me there was nothing wrong with the heater exchange.

    This engineer also told me that Combi-boilers can not get sludged up, and i was only the old type where you have one large tank and one smaller ank in loft. Is this true? Even if it isnt I find it hard to believe my boiler coul get sludged up after 14 months of use, and I have a scale reducer fitted on the incoming water pipe.

    I have had plumbers (and an electrician) out from three different companies. British gas are telling me all this work needed doing and the others are telling me british gas are trying to con me into buying a new boiler. If this is the case I want to complain to british gas for trying to get me to take out these unnecessary repairs. Does anyone have any advice for me about how I go about this?
    Also can combi-boilers get sludged up due to limescale? Esp when I have a scale reducer fitted?
  • prettypennies
    • #6
    • 4th May 09, 8:30 AM
    • #6
    • 4th May 09, 8:30 AM
    As you read from my posts above, I too had a problem with the PCB unit. Apparently the PCB going can be a sign of an underlying problem in the boiler so other things could have potentially been wrong with it. HOWEVER, from my experience, every plumber in the trade seems to be aware that on the ISAR IVAR boilers there is a fault with the PCB unit and hence why Ideal have re-designed it. Incidentally, when I contacted IDEAL about the problem, they refused to acknowledge that these PCB units are faulty. I managed to get a resonably priced replacement from a chap on EBAY who appears to be doing a roaring trade in them.

    I definitely think you should complain to British Gas. The prices they were quoting for faults that they hadn't adequately tested for are out of order.
    As regards the sludging etc., there are some very knowledgeable people on this board and I'm sure one of them will be along soon to advise you
    Twins, twice the laughs, twice the fun, twice the mess!

    2012 in 2012 member #114 8.33/2012
  • EliteHeat
    • #7
    • 4th May 09, 11:50 AM
    • #7
    • 4th May 09, 11:50 AM
    I too have had a problem with my Ideal Isar. It was installed in March 2007 but I did not move in until March 2008 (it was a brand new flat). This month I had problems with hot water (was only getting lukewarm in bathroom but heating and kitchen no problem). I have British gas homecare cover so they came out and told me that I had a sludge problem (after the boiler being in use for 14 months!) and although he had cleaned some sludge off to permanently repair the boiler I needed a new heater exchange and a hydroflow system fitted. Within 12 hours the boiler had completely gone. Another British gas engineer came out. Looked over boiler and told me the PCB had blown. He also listed a load of other repairs that needed doing that totalled almost £1000 (unsure whether this included all labour charges). Obviously I was extremely angry on hearing this and contacted the builders for the development. After some intense conversations they arranged for the original plumbers that installed the boiler to come out an look at all the defects themselves, and for the manufacturers to come out.

    The original installers of the boiler found that more than half the problems listed by british gas did not exist (these people actually tested things and looked for the scale reducer, whereas the british gas man tested NOTHING and looked no further than the actual boiler for anything). They did admit that there was some bad wiring, though that wasnt dangerous, and are coming back out to fix it. The engineer from Ideal found that the only thing that was at fault was the PCB and replaced it straight away. He admitted that there is a problem with those PCB's for that model, so they have been redesigned. He installed this new PCB for me. He found no other faults with the boiler. And told me there was nothing wrong with the heater exchange.

    This engineer also told me that Combi-boilers can not get sludged up, and i was only the old type where you have one large tank and one smaller ank in loft. Is this true? Even if it isnt I find it hard to believe my boiler coul get sludged up after 14 months of use, and I have a scale reducer fitted on the incoming water pipe.

    I have had plumbers (and an electrician) out from three different companies. British gas are telling me all this work needed doing and the others are telling me british gas are trying to con me into buying a new boiler. If this is the case I want to complain to british gas for trying to get me to take out these unnecessary repairs. Does anyone have any advice for me about how I go about this?
    Also can combi-boilers get sludged up due to limescale? Esp when I have a scale reducer fitted?
    Originally posted by hayley86
    The Ideal engineer is pretty much right about the sludge problem for systems that do not contain inhibitor, let me explain why as this may give you more ammunition to beat BG with.

    The sludge is actually a substance called magnetite, which results from the radiators rusting from the inside out. The only way that this corrosion can occur is if oxygen is present and oxygen is of course present in water.

    In a traditional system with a header or expansion tank in the loft there is an unlimited amount of oxygenated water available to enable the oxidation (corrosion) process. Therefore, generally these traditional systems suffer most from sludge.

    In sealed systems, including combi-based ones, there is no header tank and the system is initially filled with water via a filling link. This automatically means that there is a finite amount of oxygen within the system and it should be obvious that after a small amount of corrosion depletes this, no more corrosion can occur unless the oxygen is replaced in some way – usually by emptying and refilling the system.

    So, in the normal course of events, sealed systems are inherently less prone to sludge and corrosion than traditional systems.

    Some additional information for you; the usual way to combat corrosion is to ensure that corrosion inhibitor is added to a system and this (obviously!) stops the corrosion from happening. While I am not suggesting that inhibitor does not need to be added to a sealed system, the damage caused by a non-inhibited sealed system will be less than the equivalent traditional, open vented system. If a heating engineer has spent money on corrosion inhibitor, he would usually put a sticker on the boiler to advise the owner not to flush the system and thus lose the inhibitor. If you can’t see the sticker you probably haven’t been protected.
    Last edited by EliteHeat; 04-05-2009 at 4:47 PM. Reason: Italics added for clarity
  • 27col
    • #8
    • 4th May 09, 4:17 PM
    • #8
    • 4th May 09, 4:17 PM
    I am not sure why an open system should be more prone to the formation of magnetite. Surely, if the open system does not have any leaks then there is no requirement for top up water and consequently no dilution of the inhibitor. Obviously there is unlimited top up water available, but it should not be required unless the system is partially drained and some treated water lost in the process. The same would be the case if the sealed system was in need of top up from the filling loop. This top up water would be without any inhibitor, so would surely be just as prone to dilution as the top up water for the open system. When my system was commissioned the inhibitor was put into the header tank and thus made its way into the rads and pipework. Presumably the tank still has inhibitor in it, and in the event of top up being required the inhibitor laden make up water will make its way into the system. You wont offend me (much) Eliteheat, if you say that I am talking out of the top of my head. Maybe I've had hold of the wrong end of the stick for all these years.
    I can afford anything that I want.
    Just so long as I don't want much.
  • EliteHeat
    • #9
    • 4th May 09, 4:40 PM
    • #9
    • 4th May 09, 4:40 PM
    I was referring to un-inhibited open vented systems. The expansion tank is a huge source of freely available oxygen. An inhibited open vented system is no more susceptible to corrosion than any other with the caveat that evaporation will reduce the effectiveness of the inhibitor over time.

    P.S. I have amended my original post to add a tiny bit of clarity
    Last edited by EliteHeat; 04-05-2009 at 4:45 PM.
  • tsb
    We've just replaced an ideal boiler with a decent boiler for a customer who had one fitted through the warmfront grant. In fact the customer had the first boiler replaced with a new one under guarantee and we have replaced that one, as the guarantee had run out. Two ideal boilers in two years wouldn't make me want to fit one
  • dori2o
    Hi,

    If you need a replacement PCB why not try these people Adlink uk limited (check ebay stores). I am in no way affiliated with them but when my Ravenheat boiler blew its PCB they managed to get a replacement for me. They are reconditioned parts but they give a 12 month guarantee on them. They sell them at reasonable prices and all they ask is that you send your old one back to them.

    At least then you get the part you want at a reasonable price with as much warranty as you would get with a brand new PCB.

    Check them out. I was very happy with them.
  • 27col
    Thanks for the clarification eliteheat, I thought that I had finally forgotten everything that I knew about the subject.
    I can afford anything that I want.
    Just so long as I don't want much.
  • bikeral64
    My boiler has decided that as it is snowing, it would be a great time to break down. It was only fitted in October 2006.

    According to my BIL it is looking like the PCB unit has packed in meaning no power to the boiler.

    Has anyone else had a similar problem with the IDEAL ISAR HE24 boiler?

    It was installed under the Warmfront scheme but I believe the warranty ended in October 2008.
    Originally posted by prettypennies
    My Isar HE 30 boiler warranty also ran out in October 2009. It has just sprung a leak. I can't find anyone interested in fixing it under 240.00 initial call out charge. Out rageous, they ought to be bombed out of business. They are producing sub-standard equipment and allowing them to be installed, knowing that they will break down.
  • deano72
    just replaced my pcb on my ideal/evo after 14mtns from new.original pcb 180 & luckily i fitted it my self.what a pile of toot..ps did contact ideal but not interested
  • iamcornholio
    The Isar boards often blow due to a leak from the auto air vent, or the combustion chamber seal.

    Its a very badly designed layout, but it means that the probelm may more than just the board
  • krissy08
    Help!!! How soon after taking out the extra yearly insurance offerred can i call to make a claim. I haven't received my renewal documents, my free 2 yr guarantee ended some weeks ago and i took out a new policy but now my boiler is tripping off my sockets.
  • 3dcad4u.com
    Why is the goverment yet again, giving grants to firms, that supply a bad product at a high price, will this goverment make them pay back or replace the boilers with one that works more than 6 months without paying out 240.00 each time, we have two babys one at 12 weeks and one a 23 months and have no hot water, and do not think we can afford there price for months, what happens then, willthe trading standards be bothered? or goverment? because warmfront are not!
  • dave7761
    I have the isar the symptom that i have is that the display is not showing any details (no power to it) does this mean the PCB has gone down ???

    I have now managed to source a PCB as that is what seems to be the problem. The guy who sold it to works for Ideal he told me they come from Koria & cost 8.00 each yet Ideal want to charge 240.00 I would say that is extortion !!!!
    Last edited by dave7761; 02-12-2011 at 1:38 PM.
  • Aquatronixjenny
    We had to fit a new PCB on one of these last week! Reading this it may be the first of many... The PCB for this boiler is expensive, I think it was about 230 including VAT and delivery, and then there's the labour to fit it.
  • macman
    Worth trying CET for a recon PCB: I used them last year for a Sime board.
    http://www.cetltd.com/default.asp
    No free lunch, and no free laptop
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