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    ish
    PCN - Stopped to drop off passenger at bus stop
    • #1
    • 23rd Jan 09, 5:15 PM
    PCN - Stopped to drop off passenger at bus stop 23rd Jan 09 at 5:15 PM
    I have received a PCN from London Borough of Hounslow stating that i have contravened "(47) STOPPED ON A RESTRICTED BUS STOP OR STAND".

    I just stopped at a bus stop to drop a friend, didnt wait. literally just stopped, he got out and i drove off. In the picture you can see my car steering right and my right signal on to confirm i am moving off.

    I couldnt belive it and wondering if there is anything i can do, surely this must be allowed. Also note this is not a red line zone.

    Can someone point me in the right direction on how i can appeal and what i can do.

    Greatly Appreciated.
Page 1
    • Crabman
    • By Crabman 23rd Jan 09, 5:31 PM
    • 9,438 Posts
    • 6,865 Thanks
    Crabman
    • #2
    • 23rd Jan 09, 5:31 PM
    • #2
    • 23rd Jan 09, 5:31 PM
    Hello ish, could you take a look at the welcome sticky on the main board and upload the PCN accordingly, so someone can take a look?
    I'm a Board Guide on the Savings & Investments, ISAs & Tax-free Savings, Public Transport & Cycling, Motoring and Parking Fines, Tickets & Parking Boards which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly & I can move & merge posts there. Board Guides are not moderators & don't read every post. If you spot a contentious or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com

  • ish
    • #3
    • 23rd Jan 09, 5:58 PM
    • #3
    • 23rd Jan 09, 5:58 PM
    Thank You

    Here are the links for the pictures.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/34646228@N03/3220806572/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/34646228@N03/3220811124/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/34646228@N03/3220812332/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/34646228@N03/3219962533/
  • robredz
    • #4
    • 23rd Jan 09, 6:50 PM
    • #4
    • 23rd Jan 09, 6:50 PM
    You are on a sticky wicket here as only a bus can stop at a bus stop, even a taxi will get a ticket. Even police should not park or stop on a bus stop. Wardens have ticketed buses for stopping too long on a bus stop. LOL
    • Crabman
    • By Crabman 23rd Jan 09, 8:32 PM
    • 9,438 Posts
    • 6,865 Thanks
    Crabman
    • #5
    • 23rd Jan 09, 8:32 PM
    • #5
    • 23rd Jan 09, 8:32 PM
    You are on a sticky wicket here as only a bus can stop at a bus stop, even a taxi will get a ticket. Even police should not park or stop on a bus stop. Wardens have ticketed buses for stopping too long on a bus stop. LOL
    Originally posted by robredz
    Among other things we're focusing on procedural improprieties on the PCN here, so until Neil B has had a chance to take a look it's probably best not to belittle the chances of a successful appeal.

    The reason I'm posting this is because a similar comment a week or so ago caused the Appellant to panic, they paid the fine and consequently lost the right to appeal. Don't want that to happen again!
    I'm a Board Guide on the Savings & Investments, ISAs & Tax-free Savings, Public Transport & Cycling, Motoring and Parking Fines, Tickets & Parking Boards which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly & I can move & merge posts there. Board Guides are not moderators & don't read every post. If you spot a contentious or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com

  • Neil B
    • #6
    • 23rd Jan 09, 9:29 PM
    • #6
    • 23rd Jan 09, 9:29 PM
    The reason I'm posting this is because a similar comment a week or so ago caused the Appellant to panic, they paid the fine and consequently lost the right to appeal. Don't want that to happen again!
    Originally posted by Crabman
    Well said Sir!

    Unfortunately I can't be of much help in this instance. Stopping on a bus stand/stop is a contravention at all times. For info though, unless an additional restriction applies, then, contrary to what someone said above, a taxi can.

    A couple of minor errors on the PCN are so inconsequential they are of no use.

    I could post similar to some we have seen on here and say - 'don't be stupid, of course you can't stop on a bus stop' - but I can't cos i suddenly realised that only a few months ago, before getting clued up, I would have also thought it was the most sensible place to stop!

    The only possibilities remaining are failures of signage and road markings for the bus stop itself. Not unknown but would need pics.
    -
    • TheBogsDollocks
    • By TheBogsDollocks 24th Jan 09, 9:29 PM
    • 227 Posts
    • 206 Thanks
    TheBogsDollocks
    • #7
    • 24th Jan 09, 9:29 PM
    • #7
    • 24th Jan 09, 9:29 PM
    Did the bus stop have the appropriate sign such as one of these

    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/023113aj.gif

    Many stops fail to have the appropriate sign accompanying the road marking so it's worth checking.
  • Bielzibub
    • #8
    • 24th Jan 09, 11:36 PM
    • #8
    • 24th Jan 09, 11:36 PM
    I have received a PCN from London Borough of Hounslow stating that i have contravened "(47) STOPPED ON A RESTRICTED BUS STOP OR STAND".

    I just stopped at a bus stop to drop a friend, didnt wait. literally just stopped, he got out and i drove off. In the picture you can see my car steering right and my right signal on to confirm i am moving off.

    I couldnt belive it and wondering if there is anything i can do, surely this must be allowed. Also note this is not a red line zone.
    Originally posted by ish
    Pay it. It's an absolute offence. Only a bus can stop in a restricted bus stop. You cannot stop there at all for any reason, even to drop someone off.
    Bielzibub
  • pepperwhitemini
    • #9
    • 24th Jan 09, 11:40 PM
    • #9
    • 24th Jan 09, 11:40 PM
    I would imagine the offence has been committed once you have stopped. If you were still moving even slowly when he got out (an impossibility really) you might have grounds for appeal - as it stands I think you will have to pay the fine.
  • Neil B
    Pay it. It's an absolute offence. Only a bus can stop in a restricted bus stop. You cannot stop there at all for any reason, even to drop someone off.
    Originally posted by Bielzibub
    it is not an 'offence' at all.

    Although the case does not look hopeful so far did you read 'Bogs'' post #7?

    So much for 'money saving advice'!!
    • TheBogsDollocks
    • By TheBogsDollocks 24th Jan 09, 11:51 PM
    • 227 Posts
    • 206 Thanks
    TheBogsDollocks
    It's only a contravention if all the legally prescribed signs and lines are in place. Along with my other link above the sign must accompany one of these bays.

    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/023113bd.gif

    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/023113be.gif

    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/023113bf.gif
    • TheBogsDollocks
    • By TheBogsDollocks 24th Jan 09, 11:58 PM
    • 227 Posts
    • 206 Thanks
    TheBogsDollocks
    Pay it. It's an absolute offence. Only a bus can stop in a restricted bus stop. You cannot stop there at all for any reason, even to drop someone off.
    Originally posted by Bielzibub
    Complete tosh..I advise you read the TSRGD 2002 schedule 19 part 1 and stop giving incorrect advice.
  • Bielzibub
    http://www.findleys.co.uk/highway_code/waiting_and_parking.html

    Items in the HC code which state MUST or MUST NOT are backed up by an applicable section of the Road Traffic Act.
    Bielzibub
  • Neil B
    http://www.findleys.co.uk/highway_code/waiting_and_parking.html

    Items in the HC code which state MUST or MUST NOT are backed up by an applicable section of the Road Traffic Act.
    Originally posted by Bielzibub
    You are entirely missing the point. You can make as much reference to the 'Highway Code Code' as you like, it must first be a bus stop - and it is not an offence in CPE which is applicable here.
    -
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 25th Jan 09, 4:36 PM
    • 22,673 Posts
    • 27,195 Thanks
    peter_the_piper
    I wonder if Clark Kent has found his way onto here?
    Millies gone back to Thailand, Roll on Summer.
    • TheBogsDollocks
    • By TheBogsDollocks 25th Jan 09, 5:05 PM
    • 227 Posts
    • 206 Thanks
    TheBogsDollocks
    http://www.findleys.co.uk/highway_code/waiting_and_parking.html

    Items in the HC code which state MUST or MUST NOT are backed up by an applicable section of the Road Traffic Act.
    Originally posted by Bielzibub
    You should read these sections and then you will learn that there are exceptions to the rule. For instance in the link, it says, you must not wait or park where there are yellow line restrictions, but we all know that you can for boarding and alighting or loading/unloading (where not prohibited) and other's such as BB holders parking up to 3 hours or on direction of a police officer.

    So, as I said previously, it's complete tosh that you cannot park on a bus stop clearway for any reason. There are acceptable reasons, see paragraphs 4 & 5 in the link

    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023113.htm#sch19


    We are moving away from the issue of helping the OP. To get the PCN cancelled. it will depend on faulty paperwork or non compliant markings and signage or mitigating circumstances.
    Last edited by TheBogsDollocks; 25-01-2009 at 5:10 PM.
  • Herve
    Good afternoon,

    I realise that this topic is quite old but I am in a similar situation with one twist. The area where the bus stop is has CCTV surveillance without signs to warn motorists.

    I have the photos but they are clear cut, not sure they add to the debate. Dropping stuff at a charity shop. 1min 20' in bus stop. Probably had an off-day.

    It seems presence of CCTV have to be displayed. Some variance in what I should/can do on the top of the signage requirement already made on this thread.

    Should I pursue the route of "The IOC CCTV code of conduct states that warning signs should be placed where CCTV is in use. No such signs were in place in the location where this PCN was issued therefore it is invalid".

    Previous experience welcome.

    Thanks
  • wvpTV
    Pausing to read the restrictions should be a valid defence, how else could you know what they are?

    Many signs face the road, but small print can require a close inspection.

    They say ignorance of the law is no excuse, OK, but don't fine me for finding out.
    • ManxRed
    • By ManxRed 3rd Oct 12, 4:44 PM
    • 3,394 Posts
    • 4,484 Thanks
    ManxRed
    So would you drive through a red light unless there was a sign saying 'don't drive through red lights'?
    Je Suis Cecil.
  • wvpTV
    No ManxRed of course not.

    You seem to be missing the point that some restriction signs are impossible to read from the road way, thus fall into "inadequate signing", thus if PCN's are issued because you stopped to find out the restriction (and nothing else), the PCN should be cancelled.

    There's some successful defences precisely on these grounds, Google the issues if you are interested.
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