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  • evilgoose
    • #2
    • 30th Jul 08, 2:09 PM
    • #2
    • 30th Jul 08, 2:09 PM
    I think its goes along the lines of:---

    Skilled/training
    Less --- > ----> -----> More
    Carpenter - Joiner - Cabinet Maker

    Can you ask him for a reference of someone he has done work for to see what the quality of his work is?

    My Father was an 'old school' time served cabinet maker and also did some mould making for the plastics industry. When he made something, you couldnt tell where the joins were, I'm not impressed with alot of the woodwork you see these days, the quality is certainly not was it was - No offence to any carpenters out there!!

    If you do a search on Wikipedia for Joiner it gives some info on there.
    Last edited by evilgoose; 30-07-2008 at 2:14 PM.
  • McAzrael
    • #3
    • 30th Jul 08, 8:48 PM
    • #3
    • 30th Jul 08, 8:48 PM
    I'm not sure that putting in a "no offence to carpenters" at the end of that post is going to save you. Carpentry and cabinet making are completely different trades, and the skill levels are not comparable. It would be like comparing architects to lawyers because they both use pens and paper.

    Carpentry and joinery are both construction trades. To oversimplify, joiners join wood and carpenters fix it. All of the skill in making construction components (windows, doors, trusses, stairs, etc.) is in the joints. Joiners normally work in workshops, producing the components for carpenters to fix. Carpenters normally work on site and their skill is in dealing with site conditions where nothing is ever quite right (and dealing with bricklayers).

    There is, of course, considerable overlap. Most will have learnt the basics of both trades as apprentices before specialising. Both should be able to handle the work of the other, although slowly and probably not too adeptly. There are many one-man-band tradesmen out there who really do do both, making up a couple of windows and going out and fixing them. Joinery companies, particularly if they are supplying the private market, will employ carpenters to fix their products.

    With modern construction having more and more components prefabricated (although this change is still relatively slow in Britain) then more and more jobs traditionally carried out by carpenters are now being handled by joiners, or at least in joinery workshops. Doors will be hung in their frames before they leave the workshop. Windows can be glazed and painted before leaving the workshop. Fixing a pre-glazed and painted window, without damaging it and without allowing any plasterers or their mess to get anywhere near it, that's a skill.
    Last edited by McAzrael; 30-07-2008 at 8:51 PM.
    • Churchpolly
    • By Churchpolly 30th Jul 08, 9:20 PM
    • 80 Posts
    • 44 Thanks
    Churchpolly
    • #4
    • 30th Jul 08, 9:20 PM
    carpenters, joiners
    • #4
    • 30th Jul 08, 9:20 PM
    Hi, I wanted a really good carpenter for a job and was at a bit of a loss after asking friends and family etc, no one could help - but then I had a brainwave! I went to a local, long established small woodyard and asked the owner if he could recommend someone for a special job. He certainly did and I must say I was delighted with the results - by the way, its always a good idea I think to employ someone who has an actual business and is carrying insurance, that way if anything does go drastically wrong they are covered. all the best, Polly
  • evilgoose
    • #5
    • 30th Jul 08, 9:39 PM
    • #5
    • 30th Jul 08, 9:39 PM
    The schema I used is from Wikipedia - I certainly didnt mean to imply that carpenters are unskillfull! Maybe not phrased the best-It seems that anyone who can use a saw often call themselves carpenters now, if you are able to get some references it will help settle your mind to the standard of work or as churchpolly has said get some recommendations.

    When was the last time you went into a new building/new office recently? The quality of skirting, and architrave etc work is appauling. with large gaps and poor quality materials.

    I've grown up in a house where my father, who was a perfectionist, did all the woodwork, from building and installing the staircase to making the skirting, windows and doors (and even the moulds to repair the plaster coving). My mum's had tradesmen into do work in the house and they comment on the standard of work and without realising my father had passed away offer him a job. Hense, I'm probably an overly harsh critic of other woodwork I see.

    When my father was alive he used to say that carpenters were some of the most undervalued workers on a building site, they often have to turn up before the other workers and finish after them, they can spend hours doing their work, which quite often his hiden behind the other trades work. But without the carpenters work been correct - their (plasterers etc) work wouldnt be correct. But a plasterer could turn up, plaster a room and the room would look great, but the carpenters work would then be hidden.

    Sorry guys I really didn't/and dont mean to offend and imply lack of skill in their discipline.
    Last edited by evilgoose; 30-07-2008 at 9:41 PM.
  • sodamnfunky
    • #6
    • 31st Jul 08, 8:29 AM
    • #6
    • 31st Jul 08, 8:29 AM
    Joiners are just better. LOL.. I am one. Seriously tho McAzreal has it spot on. I do both carpentry and Joinery, there is skill attached to both, although I would say there is more skill involved with joinery.

    I also agree with the comment about the standard of the woodwork that is around. I learnt my trade with an old guy, who wouldnt let me near wood for a year, unless you call sweeping the shavings up, working with wood. I have seen work by so called C&J's and it is shocking, but what worries me is they get the work. We have a few here, that everyone knows, but they get the work with bullsh1t. Yet the real tradesmen are quiet.
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