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  • FIRST POST
    • molokoid
    • By molokoid 29th Jun 08, 5:46 PM
    • 22Posts
    • 14Thanks
    molokoid
    Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?
    • #1
    • 29th Jun 08, 5:46 PM
    Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route? 29th Jun 08 at 5:46 PM
    Hi all,

    Moved into a house in Jan that has a bulk LPG tank, which was previously supplied (and the tank is owned by) Calor. The contract they were really keen for me to sign was quite a restrictive lock in one and after speaking and a bit of negotiating they dropped the standing charge and discounted the pence per litre by 12%. This only made me sceptical that they had a lot of fat in the price anyway and there seems to be limited information available on the net about bulk lpg supply (lots of websites that will find you the cheapest supply for a fee!). Seems to be crying out for a MSE article if there are enough bulk lpg owners out there.

    Anyway, i read that there is some sort of regulation coming into the market which allows me to choose the supplier i wish and in turn they buy the tank off the previous owners. This seems to be a more market competitive way of doing it, but i can't find out when this is due to happen.

    Are there any bulk lpg owners out there that can give me some advice?

    TIA
Page 151
    • zaax
    • By zaax 24th Dec 17, 5:11 PM
    • 1,807 Posts
    • 716 Thanks
    zaax
    I have just ordered a delivery from Extra Fuel, my contract started in August, with a price of 31.5 pence, today I paid 36.5p because of the surcharge.

    Just shows that contract prices mean nothing, and they can increase the price at will.
    Originally posted by macman54
    At the end of the day a contract is a contract, and can e enforced in the court
    Do you want your money back, and a bit more, search for 'money claim online' - They don't like it up 'em Captain Mainwaring
    • mcmullank
    • By mcmullank 26th Dec 17, 5:32 PM
    • 89 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    mcmullank
    At the end of the day a contract is a contract, and can e enforced in the court
    Originally posted by zaax
    You are correct but Extrafuel contracts specifically allow for a surcharge. As always, it pays to read the contract and understand it before signing.
    • RoyP
    • By RoyP 27th Dec 17, 11:49 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    RoyP
    Countrywide price increase
    Yes I got a 8ppl increase as well.
    • macman54
    • By macman54 27th Dec 17, 11:53 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    macman54
    Extra Fuel Surcharge
    You are correct but Extrafuel contracts specifically allow for a surcharge. As always, it pays to read the contract and understand it before signing.
    Originally posted by mcmullank
    Just to say I contacted Extra Fuel and the surcharge has been removed, and will credited back to my account.

    I received a phone call from them this morning,explaining what had happened.

    So all's well again.

    Very impressed with the service.
    • mcmullank
    • By mcmullank 27th Dec 17, 11:55 AM
    • 89 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    mcmullank
    Just to say I contacted Extra Fuel and the surcharge has been removed, and will credited back to my account.

    I received a phone call from them this morning,explaining what had happened.

    So all's well again.

    Very impressed with the service.
    Originally posted by macman54
    Great result. However, I am sure that your contract will allow a surcharge to be applied, especially one that was signed this year.
    What was the reason that they gave for firstly applying it and more importantly for others, the reason for removing it.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 27th Dec 17, 11:56 AM
    • 16,054 Posts
    • 14,343 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Just to say I contacted Extra Fuel and the surcharge has been removed, and will credited back to my account.

    I received a phone call from them this morning,explaining what had happened.
    Originally posted by macman54
    Conspiracy or c*ck-up?
    • macman54
    • By macman54 27th Dec 17, 3:24 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    macman54
    Extra Fuel Surcharge
    Great result. However, I am sure that your contract will allow a surcharge to be applied, especially one that was signed this year.
    What was the reason that they gave for firstly applying it and more importantly for others, the reason for removing it.
    Originally posted by mcmullank
    Not sure, was told it should not have been applied on my contract, and did mention that the surcharge would be removed across the board, possibly in 6 weeks.

    Was told the wholesale price of LPG had dramatically increased, hence the surcharge.

    So cannot say for sure if it was a mistake, or the fact that I complained.


    My order was only for 950 litres, so the surcharge was about £45.

    This will probably be credited against the tank rental I pay in March.
    • Lumphammer1
    • By Lumphammer1 2nd Jan 18, 2:42 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Lumphammer1
    I have just switched from Callow (local independent) Was with them for 9 years and most recently on a deal which matched the Lister ANSI tracker. Lister were taken over by Avanti, I believe, and the tracker scrapped. Most recent price was 30.3. Callow told me new price was 46.95p (!) for a full tank and 56.95p (!!) for a half tank. No notice or warning given to me that I had been removed from tracker product. Decided, I would leave on principal.

    Shopped around and best deal was with FloGas via Robert Flaxman. I found him to be very professional and prompt in his service. Got 30.5p fixed for 12 months and maximum 5p rise in year 2. Plus £125 free gas and £30 M & S voucher. And a telemetry unit which monitors/re-orders gas level - something previously we didn't have.

    Happy.
    • Mister G
    • By Mister G 3rd Jan 18, 3:58 PM
    • 480 Posts
    • 285 Thanks
    Mister G
    I have just switched from Callow (local independent) Was with them for 9 years and most recently on a deal which matched the Lister ANSI tracker. Lister were taken over by Avanti, I believe, and the tracker scrapped. Most recent price was 30.3. Callow told me new price was 46.95p (!) for a full tank and 56.95p (!!) for a half tank. No notice or warning given to me that I had been removed from tracker product. Decided, I would leave on principal.

    Shopped around and best deal was with FloGas via Robert Flaxman. I found him to be very professional and prompt in his service. Got 30.5p fixed for 12 months and maximum 5p rise in year 2. Plus £125 free gas and £30 M & S voucher. And a telemetry unit which monitors/re-orders gas level - something previously we didn't have.

    Happy.
    Originally posted by Lumphammer1
    Does the Flogas contract still allow them to exceed the 5p rise in 'exceptional circumstances'?
    • JerryW
    • By JerryW 4th Jan 18, 12:51 PM
    • 82 Posts
    • 48 Thanks
    JerryW
    ... And a telemetry unit which monitors/re-orders gas level - something previously we didn't have.
    Happy.
    Originally posted by Lumphammer1
    I had a telemetry unit added by Calor. The pros are that you don't have to bother looking at the tank any more, and if you do run out of gas you have a reasonable case for blaming the supplier and getting them to sort it out. The cons are that it transfers decisions about when to fill the tank from you to the supplier. Supposing the price is going to go up shortly, guess when the supplier is more likely to call? Before or after? Calor also used to let the tank get pretty damn empty before filling it, it was below 10% more than once. Their decision to fill the tank appeared to be based on a number of factors, including (a) a convenient round for the tanker, (b) pricing factors, and (c) a random element that confused the tanker driver as much as it did me.. twice in a month, once.

    So I'm not saying they are a bad thing, but neither are they an unmitigated benefit. Most suppliers would still provide a fill on request I expect (Calor were a bit iffy about this) so they could be used as a backup or safety net, I guess. I just look at my tank once a month, phone Woldlink when it is about 30% full, job done ..
    • JerryW
    • By JerryW 4th Jan 18, 1:01 PM
    • 82 Posts
    • 48 Thanks
    JerryW
    Does the Flogas contract still allow them to exceed the 5p rise in 'exceptional circumstances'?
    Originally posted by Mister G
    The standard Flogas contract (which I have, via Woldlink) gives three reasons for increasing prices, clauses 8.1 8.2 and 8.3. The next clause says that prices will not increase more than 5p as a result of 8.2 and 8.3, but carefully omits any mention of clause 8.1, which says:
    "Any underlying increase in the cost of LPG as evidenced by reference to the relevant Platts LPG Price index for North West Europe (taking into account any relevant exchange rate issues)"

    Subsequent clause makes it crystal clear that the maximum increase is "unlimited" ... so yes, I bet any Flogas customer can be caught by that
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 4th Jan 18, 1:18 PM
    • 16,054 Posts
    • 14,343 Thanks
    AdrianC
    When we returned to Calor the other month, they were absolutely insistent that they'd install telemetry... Until they tried it. No mobile signal. Just like I'd told 'em repeatedly.

    You'd think that far from unusual for properties off the mains gas grid, wouldn't you?
    • JerryW
    • By JerryW 5th Jan 18, 8:04 AM
    • 82 Posts
    • 48 Thanks
    JerryW
    When we returned to Calor the other month, they were absolutely insistent that they'd install telemetry... Until they tried it. No mobile signal. Just like I'd told 'em repeatedly.

    You'd think that far from unusual for properties off the mains gas grid, wouldn't you?
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    Mine connected via the landline (in some way that didn't involve me paying for the calls)
    • Essexuser
    • By Essexuser 6th Jan 18, 3:04 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Essexuser
    Many years ago Calor installed a telemetry unit and it rendered my landline totally unserviceable. I wouldn't chance it again especially as my landline is now on VOIP.

    Under my current Flogas contract they just come round and top it up every couple of months or so in the winter. I find their service excellent and also changed to them via Robert Flaxman at 31.5 ppl plus free gas, etc., from the king of the rip-offs, Avanti.
    • HateLPG
    • By HateLPG 12th Jan 18, 12:24 PM
    • 461 Posts
    • 768 Thanks
    HateLPG
    January 2018 Pricing
    OMG! Has it REALLY been that long?!

    SO sorry, everyone, life has just kind of got in the way. Anyway, a coouple of conversations this week reminded me that it was well past time that I posted som enew figures, so here goes.








    Click Graph for larger version

    As always, Hope these are of use.

    Enjoy

    • mcmullank
    • By mcmullank 12th Jan 18, 12:29 PM
    • 89 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    mcmullank
    OMG! Has it REALLY been that long?!

    SO sorry, everyone, life has just kind of got in the way. Anyway, a coouple of conversations this week reminded me that it was well past time that I posted some new figures, so here goes.


    Click Graph for larger version

    As always, Hope these are of use.

    Enjoy

    Originally posted by HateLPG
    Given that the Malvern Hills price is no longer available, perhaps you could replace it with the Woldlink price?
    • LittleVermin
    • By LittleVermin 12th Jan 18, 3:52 PM
    • 675 Posts
    • 669 Thanks
    LittleVermin
    Mushrooms and bulk LPG prices.....
    Thanks Hate for another release of the technicolor LPG extravaganza!

    This show has been running for several years now - and older forum users will remember it was set up because we were fed up (eulogism alert) by being ripped off by suppliers despite the Competition Commission domestic bulk LPG market investigation and ruling (it's all archived - but suppliers' names are redacted) so the charts show transparent prices - i.e. those available on the web - plus, originally, Platts (the index used by the suppliers ...and available on subscription ....but just somehow published on-line [at one time by the Chinese - many thanks!]) and when Platt's disappeared totally behind a high paywall then ANSI was available by digging. For a time both were available and their correspondance in prices for the North Sea area was clear. So ANSI is a good indicator of what the suppliers pay (but the cost to them of LPG in any given month is complicated by forward buying, storage capacity, etc). And, of course, they pay in US dollars.

    SO only publicly accessible retail prices are shown (see links below). LOTS of good deals for customers which are not publicised (except on the forum by helpful people e.g. Mister G (#2999) paying HBS, a small supplier in Hants area, 30ppl for the last 2 1/2 years! Yes, we assume they are making money!) Northern Energy (and affiliates) get good mentions for prices and service.

    Malvern Hills District Council did a deal with Lister - and let us have the prices (yes, this forum helped them set it up!) and then the prices were sometimes available on line. Lister set up its excellent ANSI Tracker for people outside the MHDC but within their distribution area. But Lister has been gobbled up by Avantigas (use the Search box, above, to find comments on them).

    Then there's Flogas. You can approach Flogas direct. Or you can approach Woldlink, a big farmers' co-op in Lincs., which [it seems clear!] only sends its business to Flogas (e.g. you cannot switch from Flogas to Woldlink). It has really good monthly prices (currently unavailable for new customers) and not-quite-so-good 6 monthly fixes. Forum users kindly post these prices. Or you can get a price - using Flogas - from LPG Save (Robert Flaxman's company: he was a senior Flogas employee according to his LinkedIn profile, until he deleted it!).

    So who's left to mention? Extrafuel was the first to go transparent - publishing monthly prices on-line, with everyone paying the same (respect to them!). But then people asked for fixed price deals for 6 months or a year...and it all got a bit messy. And at renewal time the majors would always undercut any quote you had from Extrafuel...then make up the 'loss' in year 2. You can see from forum posts that their customers can be paying rather less (!) than the transparent price visible on-line. Extrafuel subcontracts to Flogas in SW England (I don't know about other areas). Carver's - they post a price and say they give a discount to everyone. They also were charging a high tank rental...which made comparisons tricky (there are further complications - use the Search box again ..or, if you use them, please post an up-date).

    Cardiff Gas - seems totally transparent! Good prices. Deliver both sides of the Bristol Channel, etc. Good reports (use Search).

    Birmingham Autogas - (relatively) new kid on the block. Good prices. No-one has posted about them, so far as I know.

    Mushrooms? These charts - and everyone's posts on this forum - are a little attempt to let a chink of light into the dark mushroom shed where the big suppliers would like us to be. With the consolidation of the market - independents only ever had around 10% of the domestic market - it's getting darker again. And - so far as I know - there is NO other forum dealing with domestic bulk LPG in the UK.

    Finally, the links: Extrafuel, Carvers Gas, Cardiff Gas, and Birmingham Autogas.

    Please post prices - increases with original and/or present price plus rental. And any inducements. Turkeys at Christmas, etc.

    If you get any info from your supplier (office/tanker-driver/engineer) please post .. or if that might cause problems send a private message to someone on the forum...and we'll post (but maybe after a while!). The indies are just as fed up as most of the forum users about the rip-offs (e.g. retired folk being loyal to major suppliers ...and paying eg. 65ppl at the present time. People unable to switch because of tanks which do not meet present regs...but the suppliers are happy to refill, the tanker-driver having ticked the safety check box before each delivery (as they must). There are NO grandfather rights - again, use the Search box).

    End of lecture. Back to hibernation.

    Happy 2018!
    .
    Last edited by LittleVermin; 12-01-2018 at 6:00 PM. Reason: English! 4:24 PM tweaks
    • DAVID.T2
    • By DAVID.T2 15th Jan 18, 9:09 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    DAVID.T2
    Update
    Following on from LittleVermins request for more info re suppliers, Carver Gases appear to have gone back to normal rental charges for their tanks.
    • armistice
    • By armistice 16th Jan 18, 9:40 AM
    • 40 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    armistice
    Please could someone help me to get the non converted ANSI price for February 2017, or point me as to where I can find out the prices myself. From viewing HateLPG's latest graph it would appear the surcharge currently imposed on my purchases due to a rise in the ANSI rate compared to the start of my contract is wrong.
    • The Hornet
    • By The Hornet 16th Jan 18, 10:57 AM
    • 75 Posts
    • 66 Thanks
    The Hornet
    Recently had a delivery from Countrywide Farmers (33ppl) and was told that last week Countrywide were taken over by DCC, the parent company of Flogas. Supposedly they are to continue to be run as separate companies but I would take that statement with a VERY large pinch of salt.

    So I would advise anyone taking out a new contract with Countrywide to check the small print carefully for the standard Flogas get-out clause allowing them to raise the price despite a supposed "capped increase" promise in the case of wholesale gas price increases.
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