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  • FIRST POST
    • molokoid
    • By molokoid 29th Jun 08, 5:46 PM
    • 21Posts
    • 14Thanks
    molokoid
    Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?
    • #1
    • 29th Jun 08, 5:46 PM
    Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route? 29th Jun 08 at 5:46 PM
    Hi all,

    Moved into a house in Jan that has a bulk LPG tank, which was previously supplied (and the tank is owned by) Calor. The contract they were really keen for me to sign was quite a restrictive lock in one and after speaking and a bit of negotiating they dropped the standing charge and discounted the pence per litre by 12%. This only made me sceptical that they had a lot of fat in the price anyway and there seems to be limited information available on the net about bulk lpg supply (lots of websites that will find you the cheapest supply for a fee!). Seems to be crying out for a MSE article if there are enough bulk lpg owners out there.

    Anyway, i read that there is some sort of regulation coming into the market which allows me to choose the supplier i wish and in turn they buy the tank off the previous owners. This seems to be a more market competitive way of doing it, but i can't find out when this is due to happen.

    Are there any bulk lpg owners out there that can give me some advice?

    TIA
Page 137
    • tp023
    • By tp023 7th Oct 16, 2:19 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    tp023
    In April I negotiated 30ppl. This will take it to 33ppl. Can they do this in the first year? I thought they could only increase in the 2nd year?
    • mcmullank
    • By mcmullank 7th Oct 16, 2:59 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 55 Thanks
    mcmullank
    In April I negotiated 30ppl. This will take it to 33ppl. Can they do this in the first year? I thought they could only increase in the 2nd year?
    Originally posted by tp023
    Yes, if the contract allows it. I expect we will see many more cases like this posted on here over the next month or so. Probably including people who thought they were signing a deal for xx in year 1, limited to a yppl increase in year 2. I did raise the flag on this previously but found it impossible to get anyone to provide me with a copy of one of these contracts.

    Bottom line is that you need to gather the contract and any related documentation, read it and see if Calor stated that they would only raise prices in the second year.
    • Juliandicks
    • By Juliandicks 7th Oct 16, 4:06 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Juliandicks
    Woldlink contract Price for there 6 monthly fix is 27.85ppl down slightly from previous fix (27.95) but they indicated that there had been an upturn in pricing in the last couple of months.

    The below is the standard email they send out potential new customers.

    Standard contract length for domestic customers is 2 years and for commercial customers 5 years.

    New domestic customers will receive a £250.00 worth of free gas that will be credited to their account on completion of change over.

    The price of bulk LPG is based on a 6 monthly fixed price that will be reviewed and re fixed for the
    1st October and 1st April each year. If you join part way through the six month period you will be fixed to the end of that period, not for six months from the date you join.

    Current fixed price is 27.85 pence per litre until to the 31st of March 2017.

    The reason we re fix on a 6 monthly basis is that in conjunction and under discussion with our
    Supplier we can always offer our customers the best price we have available.

    There is the argument that by capping potential increases in the second year to no more than 4 ppl
    that the customer is achieving a level of security in the price they pay. In some respects this is correct
    but as a customer the reality is that you are agreeing to a guaranteed increase in the second year with
    no chance of holding or reducing the price you pay.

    This situation has been experienced by many customers coming out of contract with other suppliers,
    who having been paying well over the odds over the past few years.

    Woldlink cannot guarantee you that prices will not rise but what we can promise is that we will always
    offer you our best prices and that you will always benefit from any price reductions or if the market remains static.

    Customers will be made aware of any potential price movement well in advance of any changes allowing to you
    to top up or hold off dependent on which way the market moves.

    Standard procedure is that as the customer you decide when to place your order and at a time that suits you.
    Payment is taken at point of order by debit or credit card and any under delivery of LPG is refunded back to you on
    completion of order.

    Woldlink are looking to establish long term relationships with all of our customers and the only way we will achieve
    this is working on your behalf to obtain the absolute best prices we can.

    Standard Tank Rental on an above ground tank is £65.00 per year. Below ground £75.00
    Last edited by Juliandicks; 07-10-2016 at 4:08 PM.
    • bobmac62
    • By bobmac62 10th Oct 16, 4:20 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    bobmac62
    Price from Woldlink for LPG in October advised as 23.45ppl +5% VAT. An increase of 1.39ppl on the September price, less than the recent increases from other LPG suppliers.
    • AncientEngineer
    • By AncientEngineer 10th Oct 16, 6:49 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    AncientEngineer
    Woldlink seems too good to be true. What's the catch? Am I missing something?
    Last edited by AncientEngineer; 10-10-2016 at 6:50 PM. Reason: typo
    • Ozzysmate
    • By Ozzysmate 10th Oct 16, 7:59 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 53 Thanks
    Ozzysmate
    Woldlink seems too good to be true. What's the catch? Am I missing something?
    Originally posted by AncientEngineer
    In the 18 months I've been with them, there's no catch. If you're not with them, what you're missing is good prices and excellent customer service.
    • thozza
    • By thozza 10th Oct 16, 10:08 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 161 Thanks
    thozza
    Woldlink
    Woldlink seems too good to be true. What's the catch? Am I missing something?
    Originally posted by AncientEngineer
    Woldlink are a subsidiary of Woldmarsh Producers Ltd, an agricultural purchasing co-operatives based in the Lincolnshire. LPG is actually supplied and delivered by Flogas, but all contact is with the Woldlink office, who I have found to be very efficient, helpful and straightforward.

    The price Bobmac is quoting is for a now closed scheme, customers (as I am) on this price are very lucky as it is undoubtedly the lowest rate on offer to normal domestic customers, as it was negotiated on the back of bulk agricultural sales to farmers purchasing significant quantities of LPG.

    New customer prices are slightly higher, as outlined in Juliandicks post #2723.

    Payment is up front by debit card, any over-payment is re-credited back to the customers account after delivery is made by Flogas, so you need to have a reasonable idea of how much gas is required.

    As far as I am concerned there is no catch.
    • AncientEngineer
    • By AncientEngineer 16th Oct 16, 10:59 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    AncientEngineer
    Thank you for your replies. I've taken the leap and signed up to Woldlink. I self-own my tank, so there is nothing to lose by giving them a go. I plan to take my next fill from them and will share my experience with the forum when complete. I guess I can always return to my previous supplier if there are any problems.

    I'm really grateful to this forum for raising awareness of the various LPG options, and especially to Ozzysmate and thozza for their advice.
    Last edited by AncientEngineer; 16-10-2016 at 2:50 PM. Reason: typo
    • LittleVermin
    • By LittleVermin 18th Oct 16, 4:01 PM
    • 665 Posts
    • 657 Thanks
    LittleVermin
    "Owning Your Own Tank 101", please!
    ...... I self-own my tank...................... I guess I can always return to my previous supplier if there are any problems...........
    Originally posted by AncientEngineer
    Can you post a run-down of your experience of owning your own tank, please? e.g. where, how long, cost of tests, how many potential suppliers and getting suppliers to quote - and any problems.

    Time back one of the independents was encouraging people to own their own tanks - but recently I talked to their (newish) engineer who said it wasn't worth it, in his opinion, with present-day low prices.

    Two suppliers - Cardiff Gas and Extra Fuel - offer discounts on their websites for tank owners.

    Three years back 'molokoid' posted his long-term experiences (see here) but otherwise only three or so have said they own their own tanks. More recently 'Ruby Rose' bought her tank off Flogas via Cardiff Gas (see here and here).
    ..
    Last edited by LittleVermin; 18-10-2016 at 4:11 PM. Reason: added another link
    • LittleVermin
    • By LittleVermin 18th Oct 16, 4:27 PM
    • 665 Posts
    • 657 Thanks
    LittleVermin
    Update on prices in mid-October
    The majors (Calor, Flogas and Avantigas with just under 90% of the 'market') and most of the independents - from the largest (Countrywide) to the smallest - do NOT post prices on-line. But a few independents do:

    29 .... Birmingham Autogas
    30.3.. Lister ANSI Tracker
    35..... Cardiff Gas
    37..... Carvers
    39.73..Extra Fuel

    ..and two other trackers:
    22.05.. Woldlink
    28....... Lima Gas (Lima is now owned by J Gas, based in Scotland, which does not have a tracker).

    .....blah blah blah
    ..
    Originally posted by LittleVermin
    That was posted September 12, and one month later Birmingham Autogas still 29, Lister ANSI Tracker still 30.30, Cardiff Gas still 35 but Carver now up, to 39.2, and Extra Fuel also up, to 41.14.

    And thanks to bobmac62 (here) we know Woldlink's October tracker price is up 1.39, to 23.45, and thanks to Juliandicks (here) we know that Woldlink's six-month fix is down 0.10, to 27.85.

    LPG is priced in US $: the conversion rate for £1 was $1.45 on the night of the referendum (it was running $1.30-1.35 for several months before that) but last weekend it was down to $1.22, so expect price rises. The majors forward buy - so they should be able to keep prices down for some time, and Calor has vast underground storage spaces in the NE.

    A couple of weeks back the NW Europe price for propane was $319.0/pmt - if anyone wants to do the maths! (ref here). OK - just done the calculations, using 1960l/tonne and £1 = $1.2235 (early October) so wholesale price of propane in early October was ~13.3ppl (LPG is mostly propane). So price not much different to that in HateLPG's March chart (see here).
    ..
    Last edited by LittleVermin; 18-10-2016 at 10:18 PM. Reason: 4:42 PM added link for wholesale price, 7:46 PM tweaks for clarification, 10:18 PM added LPG ppl
    • LittleVermin
    • By LittleVermin 19th Oct 16, 8:31 PM
    • 665 Posts
    • 657 Thanks
    LittleVermin
    Calor's underground storage of LPG. LOTS of it.
    ... and Calor has vast underground storage spaces in the NE.
    Originally posted by LittleVermin
    Here's more info if you are interested:

    http://www.phillips66.co.uk/en/fuels/lpg/pages/caverns.aspx

    If Calor is your supplier it might be useful info when some Calor person tells you they need to hike your price!
    • Sycorax
    • By Sycorax 2nd Nov 16, 11:47 AM
    • 89 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    Sycorax
    That time again.....

    I've got quite a low usage, c:1000 ltr per year, based in West Midlands

    Flogas/Woldlife didn't bother to get back to me.

    Calor offered 28ppl, 3.5p cap in yr2 and £250 credit, 17.28p per day +VAT tank rental.

    Avanti offered 36ppl

    I'm an existing customer of Countrywide and they've offered me 30ppl, 3.5p cap and £150 credit. They are offering new customers £200 (maybe £250) credit.
    They have just put their tank rental up to £15.00 (from £12.50) per quarter +VAT
    'I think that God, in creating Man, somewhat overestimated his ability'..Oscar Wilde
    • LittleVermin
    • By LittleVermin 2nd Nov 16, 12:03 PM
    • 665 Posts
    • 657 Thanks
    LittleVermin
    Countrywide £250 for new customers
    ....

    I'm an existing customer of Countrywide and they've offered me 30ppl, 3.5p cap and £150 credit. They are offering new customers £200 (maybe £250) credit.
    They have just put their tank rental up to £15.00 (from £12.50) per quarter +VAT
    Originally posted by Sycorax
    Flyer from Countrywide delivered recently by postie here in Cornwall (they bought Mole Valley Farmers - see earlier posts - which did nationwide deals similar to Woldlink) offering £250 FREE GAS for existing LPG users if they switch. Any problems with getting £250 off then quote CFLPG1016 (also works for cylinders - but you're better off with Woldlink!). I'll scan the flyer if anyone wants it. Small print on their website: .../terms). If you're switching to LPG they offer FREE tank installation (but so do other suppliers).

    This £250 offer was also reported by longforgotten back in September here. You could probably get a similar deal from other suppliers.
    ..
    Last edited by LittleVermin; 02-11-2016 at 12:11 PM. Reason: added link
    • bobmac62
    • By bobmac62 3rd Nov 16, 12:53 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    bobmac62
    I have received the same flyer from Countrywide today, here in the Midlands, so they seem to be on a recruitment drive at the moment.
    Update on Woldlink prices for November - now 25.95ppl +5% VAT,an increae of 2.5ppl from October.
    • LittleVermin
    • By LittleVermin 6th Nov 16, 12:57 AM
    • 665 Posts
    • 657 Thanks
    LittleVermin
    Trackers?
    That was posted September 12, and one month later Birmingham Autogas still 29, Lister ANSI Tracker still 30.30, Cardiff Gas still 35 but Carver now up, to 39.2, and Extra Fuel also up, to 41.14.

    And thanks to bobmac62 (here) we know Woldlink's October tracker price is up 1.39, to 23.45, and thanks to Juliandicks (here) we know that Woldlink's six-month fix is down 0.10, to 27.85.

    .......................... So price not much different to that in HateLPG's March chart (see here).
    ..
    Originally posted by LittleVermin
    Birmingham Autogas still at 29, Lister ANSI Tracker still 30.30, Cardiff Gas still 35 BUT Carver has had a further rise to 40.5 and Extra Fuel a further rise to 44.51.

    Woldlink a further rise - of 2.5 - to 25.95 (thanks bobmac62).

    Using the same source as in previous posts (see links) I reckon propane wholesale was 15.15ppl in NW Europe around 18 October (up from 13.3 in early October). The pound/dollar rate is about the same - the price of propane, quoted in dollars, has increased.
    HateLPG 'scraped' the transparent prices from suppliers: maybe Birmingham, Lister and Cardiff will move later this month. Historically Cardiff has kept its price stable (just like Calor - ho ho! - except Cardiff's prices go down as well as up!).
    Last edited by LittleVermin; 06-11-2016 at 1:02 AM.
    • Lottihr
    • By Lottihr 7th Nov 16, 3:40 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Lottihr
    Interesting thread, specially as we have recently been discussing moving over to oil rather than bulk LPG! Sadly looking at our files I see we signed up for another two years with flogas in April so stuck for a bit, but we had the flyer from Countrywide too. Something to bear in mind and keep track of for 2018!

    Oh. We are in North Devon, West of Bideford. With regard to Flogas, can't seem to find the paperwork on the intial price they gave us, but we are paying 35ppl plus vat and also standing charge. We signed up with them again as we didn't know that apart from Calor there were any alternatives! (We were with Calor off contract for a bit when we first came here, but chose Flogas as they were more competitive at the time and the only other supplier that we knew of, I use flogas cylinders I buy from a local agricultural merchant for my workshop, no idea how much I paid for my last bottle, 19kg).
    Last edited by Lottihr; 07-11-2016 at 4:15 PM.
    • Trickmeister
    • By Trickmeister 7th Nov 16, 3:42 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Trickmeister
    I admire your stand sir, and wish you a long relationship
    • carolergreen
    • By carolergreen 8th Nov 16, 11:00 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    carolergreen
    LPG purchasing help
    Dear All I am new to this MSE site and to LPG. I have recently moved into a house with a 2000 litre tank. The owner unfortunately died during the sale and all we have been given is a transfer agreement with Calor dating back to 2013. The tank is about 30% full and I want to buy gas and pay a competitive price. Can anyone suggest a good supplier?

    many thanks
    Carole
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 8th Nov 16, 11:08 AM
    • 12,026 Posts
    • 10,429 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Dear All I am new to this MSE site and to LPG. I have recently moved into a house with a 2000 litre tank. The owner unfortunately died during the sale and all we have been given is a transfer agreement with Calor dating back to 2013. The tank is about 30% full and I want to buy gas and pay a competitive price. Can anyone suggest a good supplier?
    Originally posted by carolergreen
    You have no contract with anybody, so your choice is completely open.

    The tank's got enough in to give you a bit of breathing room, at least, and if it was transferred in 2013, it's likely to be in an acceptable location and condition for another transfer.

    There's enough suppliers listed in this thread to give you a good bit of phoning/emailing around, to see who's offering good deals at the moment. At the moment, you're only going to have a guesstimate of the gas usage - but I'd suggest setting up a spreadsheet to work out two year's worth of guessed usage, fixed charges and any rebates that are being offered for each supplier, and seeing who comes out as good value. What look to be similar deals can come out as quite different results.
    • carolergreen
    • By carolergreen 8th Nov 16, 11:29 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    carolergreen
    Thank you Adrian - I am in a remote part of West Cumbria so its likely that the suppliers will be more limited. What are the parameters I should ask about? You are very kind. Thank you.
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