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  • FIRST POST
    • PippaGirl
    • By PippaGirl 12th Sep 17, 7:34 PM
    • 2,167Posts
    • 1,790Thanks
    PippaGirl
    Ashamed to be back again
    • #1
    • 12th Sep 17, 7:34 PM
    Ashamed to be back again 12th Sep 17 at 7:34 PM
    I'm ashamed to have to come back here again. I went bankrupt in May 2012 and was discharged January 2013. All that debt was through no fault of my own, having left a DV relationship with little more than the clothes on my back I moved into a small empty flat. I had no idea I was entitled to benefits except child benefit so having had a nervous breakdown gained debts and hid under the duvet crying.

    This time I have to take responsibility for it, I made a stupid decision. The garden had been 6ft-10ft brambles since I moved to this LA property and the wooden fences surrounding it had collapsed. So after 6 years of having nowhere for children to play or hang the washing out I stupidly paid for replacement fencing and the brambles to be cut, all on a credit card of 39.9% for which I thought I'd manage the repayments and more and would pay it off quickly. Things went from bad to worse and in trying to keep up repayments other debt appeared, I couldn't afford to eat etc and I've finally phoned stepchange for advice. The only feasible option is bankruptcy again. Stepchange say that as I've been bankrupt less than 6 years ago I will be treated in a harsher way, be bankrupt for longer, have a payment plan in place for 3-6 years and be constantly monitored.

    I'm still just as ill. Been detained under the Mental health act twice in the last 2 years, I'm living on income related employment support allowance and PIP and that's very unlikely to change. I feel so low I'm fighting off 'way out' thoughts but I've got to try and take this one day at a time. I'm paying my 4 creditors £1 a month as the stepchange calculator says I have £5 a month spare however they said that the insolvency service are unlikely to allow me the allowances I've got on their form. That's help with my disability and specialist food for my eating disorder.

    Apparently I have to open an account with the insolvency service and start paying installments and when I've paid £680 I can file for bankruptcy. That could actually take me ages. So I'm here for the long haul, paying £1 a month to 4 companies and saving in dribbles for the bankruptcy. I'm unsure how my mental health will hold up if the 4 companies don't agree that figure, give the debt to debt agencies or threaten court action. I am in pieces right now. And this time it's all my fault.
    "Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." Dalai Lama
Page 1
    • skintandfat
    • By skintandfat 12th Sep 17, 8:44 PM
    • 176 Posts
    • 112 Thanks
    skintandfat
    • #2
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:44 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Sep 17, 8:44 PM
    Why go BR?


    You are pretty much bullet proof as things stand


    Keep paying your essentials (rent/council tax etc) and pay £1 per month to your creditors (if you can afford it)


    The other option is you don't pay and they make you BR- then you save £680


    Another BR is possibly not a good option.


    How much is your total debt?


    Remember- DO NOT LET ANYBODY IN such as bailiff's etc.- talk on the mobile or through a letter box.
    If you don't let them in they cant take any assets inside the house.
    Keep your front door locked


    On a side point- get a new mobile number and use an old android mobile (beg off friends and family / kids) as a contact mobile for the debt collection people. Then you know who is calling by which phone rings.
    Many android phones have call recording apps and they will be on their best behaviour when calling if they know they are recorded.
    • PippaGirl
    • By PippaGirl 13th Sep 17, 6:53 AM
    • 2,167 Posts
    • 1,790 Thanks
    PippaGirl
    • #3
    • 13th Sep 17, 6:53 AM
    • #3
    • 13th Sep 17, 6:53 AM
    My debt is almost £6000

    The reason I decided BR is because any action from debt collection agencies or bailiffs would almost certainly send me into a mental health crisis and probably an enforced hospital admission.

    I owe 2 credit card companies, one catalogue and my local council for fencing work they completed having said I put the new fencing I paid for in the wrong place. I think it's highly unlikely any of these would make me bankrupt? More likely I'd be hounded by debt collectors for years.

    I rarely open the door to anybody. I have upstairs windows open, could they climb in these? That would terrify me, one diagnosis being PTSD following a long abusive violent relationship so a man climbing would be terrifying. I very rarely use a telephone. I have a payg which is the number I give companies and I never answer it. On my 'real' phone I receive texts from 2 of my children and my 2 friends. The only person I ever speak to on it is my GP so no one could obtain my number. Oh I do think my local council have my real number because it's the only way they will arrange appointments to make repairs. I wouldn't answer it though unless I can see my GP's number on the screen.

    I'm up to date with rent and all normal household bills.

    Stepchange said the credit card companies are very likely to think my food allowances and help in the home (eating disordered and degenerative disc disorder in spine, currently under the care of the spine clinic and pain clinic so these allowances are necessary in my and my GP's opinion) are too high and will take me to court in order to get higher payments. This would cause CCJ's but they'd be written off by any bankruptcy after that.

    So I feel BR is my only option. I'd wanted a DRO but Stepchange says I don't qualify as I've taken out a wonga 3 day loan to buy food twice in the last month plus the insolvency service would say my allowances are too high and I have spare money. Hence stepchange saying after the BR I will likely be making payments for 3-6 years.

    I'd been under the impression that if your only income is income related ESA and PIP they wouldn't take payments from you. The DWP paperwork says "this is what you need to live on" and the PIP covers disability costs, although not all of them, the ESA pays part of them too. I'm confused about how the insolvency service can take means tested benefit from you for several years.

    I can't cope with it all. Thanks for your response.
    Last edited by PippaGirl; 13-09-2017 at 6:55 AM.
    "Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." Dalai Lama
    • Helpmeoutofthismess
    • By Helpmeoutofthismess 13th Sep 17, 9:22 AM
    • 366 Posts
    • 276 Thanks
    Helpmeoutofthismess
    • #4
    • 13th Sep 17, 9:22 AM
    • #4
    • 13th Sep 17, 9:22 AM
    I'm so sorry to hear that found yourself in a financial state again

    Have you tried calling national debt line or getting an appointment with a debt adviser at the CAB? It really does not sound like the adviser you have been speaking to at stepchange has any empathy for your situation at all. Taking out a wonga loan recently seems like a ridiculous reason to be denied a DRO!

    I doubt very much your creditors will go to court for many months yet, I'm sure if you just pay the token payments for now nothing will happen whilst you save up the £90 for a DRO and by then, the wonga loans will be a few months older.

    I hope you get something sorted soon,

    H x
    • PippaGirl
    • By PippaGirl 13th Sep 17, 11:23 AM
    • 2,167 Posts
    • 1,790 Thanks
    PippaGirl
    • #5
    • 13th Sep 17, 11:23 AM
    • #5
    • 13th Sep 17, 11:23 AM
    A friend has offered to pay the £90 for a DRO so I could do that straight away but I will decline her offer now that's not happening. It's a combination of taking out the wonga loan for 3 days and my allowances are too high and for a DRO you have to have nothing spare. I'm registered disabled and the help I need and the food my eating disorder creates means I don't have anything spare but I guess stepchange must know what the insolvency service would allow so they must be right?

    My local CAB no longer deal with debt, they leave it to stepchange. I could phone National debt line for a second opinion though I guess. Apparently you can't apply for a DRO yourself, an agency has to do it on your behalf so I can't just go ahead and ignore their advice if they're saying it's out of the question. I will see if I can muster the mental energy to phone the National debt line tomorrow. I'm drained and tearful now. It does seem stupid, the system.
    "Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." Dalai Lama
    • Helpmeoutofthismess
    • By Helpmeoutofthismess 13th Sep 17, 11:37 AM
    • 366 Posts
    • 276 Thanks
    Helpmeoutofthismess
    • #6
    • 13th Sep 17, 11:37 AM
    • #6
    • 13th Sep 17, 11:37 AM
    Have you tried asking in the DRO thread on the IVA/DRO board? Im sure some of the people that post on that thread actually process DRO's so will be able to tell you if the insolvency service are likely to accept that your PIP money is for your health needs.

    H x
    • PippaGirl
    • By PippaGirl 13th Sep 17, 12:09 PM
    • 2,167 Posts
    • 1,790 Thanks
    PippaGirl
    • #7
    • 13th Sep 17, 12:09 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Sep 17, 12:09 PM
    Thanks, will do.
    "Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." Dalai Lama
    • Helpmeoutofthismess
    • By Helpmeoutofthismess 13th Sep 17, 12:23 PM
    • 366 Posts
    • 276 Thanks
    Helpmeoutofthismess
    • #8
    • 13th Sep 17, 12:23 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Sep 17, 12:23 PM
    Have you tried the Debt remedy tool on step changes website? I just did a dummy run on there, of course I don't know your circumstances but I just used the recommended figures and a DRO was recommended, they did not include the PIP in the income at all. They also did not ask if I had taken out a payday loan recently! Hopefully you just got an adviser lacking in knowledge when you spoke to step change and national debt line will be more understanding!

    H x
    • peterkay369
    • By peterkay369 13th Sep 17, 2:52 PM
    • 161 Posts
    • 68 Thanks
    peterkay369
    • #9
    • 13th Sep 17, 2:52 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Sep 17, 2:52 PM
    So I feel BR is my only option. I'd wanted a DRO but Stepchange says I don't qualify as I've taken out a wonga 3 day loan to buy food twice in the last month plus the insolvency service would say my allowances are too high and I have spare money. Hence stepchange saying after the BR I will likely be making payments for 3-6 years.

    I'd been under the impression that if your only income is income related ESA and PIP they wouldn't take payments from you. The DWP paperwork says "this is what you need to live on" and the PIP covers disability costs, although not all of them, the ESA pays part of them too. I'm confused about how the insolvency service can take means tested benefit from you for several years.
    Originally posted by PippaGirl
    I'm unsure on the being denied a BRO because of the Wonga loans, but personally I have found that information from Stepchange can sometimes be completely inaccurate, I'm in no way knocking their service but I would also contact someone like National Debtline for a second opinion.

    I'm also pretty certain that benefits aren't classed as income, therefore they shouldn't be able to touch it.
    • PippaGirl
    • By PippaGirl 13th Sep 17, 4:02 PM
    • 2,167 Posts
    • 1,790 Thanks
    PippaGirl
    I'm unsure on the being denied a BRO because of the Wonga loans, but personally I have found that information from Stepchange can sometimes be completely inaccurate, I'm in no way knocking their service but I would also contact someone like National Debtline for a second opinion.

    I'm also pretty certain that benefits aren't classed as income, therefore they shouldn't be able to touch it.
    Originally posted by peterkay369
    I've just had a go at their online tool. It queried my food costs so I sent a message explaining why they are high. And it queried why I spend £20 a month on medicines instead of their suggested £11 so again I explained that. I will get an answer to those 2 queries within 24 hours then I can continue with the tool. It didn't question my pet cost which include dog walking at all.

    I will let you know their answer. Thank you.
    "Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." Dalai Lama
    • debt doctor
    • By debt doctor 13th Sep 17, 7:12 PM
    • 4,170 Posts
    • 5,835 Thanks
    debt doctor
    Hi Pippa,
    Sorry it's gone wrong for you but things can soon be put right.
    I have no idea what Step-change are talking about so I'm not going to try and make sense of it.
    How much did you borrow in the two Wonga loans and did either get paid back?
    Could you post up your SOA on here and I will inform you of whether you qualify for a DRO on income / expenses grounds.
    If you do - then great, if you don't then we do something else.


    In bankruptcy you would pay nothing in to an IPA - you were right, it is not requested when you income is made up entirely from benefits. You were also correct that effectively your disability benefit does not count in the calculation of a DRO.
    DD
    Debt Doctor, Debt caseworker, Citizens' Advice Bureau .
    Impartial debt advice services: Citizens Advice Bureau Find your local CAB *** National Debtline - Tel: 0808 808 4000*** BSC No. 100 ***
    • PippaGirl
    • By PippaGirl 14th Sep 17, 5:27 AM
    • 2,167 Posts
    • 1,790 Thanks
    PippaGirl
    I had one won a loan of £50 (the lowest amount they'll lend, I'd only needed £30) for 3 days then I had a 50 loan again but for 9 days, both were paid back. I currently have £80 but can't see/know how to prevent it being paid back in 8 days time as they have my debit card details, can the Co-op bank stop that payment?

    The stepchange lady told me that the Co-op bank would close my cashminder account if I went BR because the Co-op have pulled out of allowing a basic bank account to BR people so I've opened a Barclays basic account at her instruction, online yesterday morning but obviously not received anything through yet. That's a shame as I've had fantastic service from the Co-op bank for 6 years now.

    My figures are jumbled in fortnightly and 4 weekly for income and monthly for expenditure. I will convert everything to calendar months and come back this morning with an SOA.

    Thank you DD. Nice to see you're still here, the only poster so far I recognise from all those years ago.
    "Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." Dalai Lama
    • philnicandevan
    • By philnicandevan 14th Sep 17, 8:10 AM
    • 520 Posts
    • 500 Thanks
    philnicandevan

    The stepchange lady told me that the Co-op bank would close my cashminder account if I went BR because the Co-op have pulled out of allowing a basic bank account to BR people so I've opened a Barclays basic account at her instruction, online yesterday morning but obviously not received anything through yet. That's a shame as I've had fantastic service from the Co-op bank for 6 years now. Wonder where she gets her info from?...i've helped people within the last few days with cashminder accounts & opening..not once have they told me they no longer take bankrupts...IF and its a big if they did barclays will offer a basic account along now with a small handfull of other banks..

    My figures are jumbled in fortnightly and 4 weekly for income and monthly for expenditure. I will convert everything to calendar months and come back this morning with an SOA. Soon as you can then we can cast an eye over things...

    Thank you DD. Nice to see you're still here, the only poster so far I recognise from all those years ago.
    Originally posted by PippaGirl
    Few thoughts Pippa....and it's NOTHING to be ashamed of..I went bankrupt in 2006 and then looked at DRO a few years ago so your not alone thats for sure
    Not quite a newbie as you think (the member formally known as philnicandamy!)

    FINALLY a qualified CAB debt caseworker 2015..
    BSC 58
    • luvchocolate
    • By luvchocolate 14th Sep 17, 8:31 AM
    • 1,481 Posts
    • 1,332 Thanks
    luvchocolate
    Hi Pippa,I am so sorry you are having a tough time, I remember you as we were going through it a few years ago now.
    I cannot offer any further advice but please do not feel bad you are a good person and will come through this.
    Take care and try to keep strong and positive. x
    • StepChange Private Messages
      Verified User verified user
    • By StepChange Private Messages Verified User verified user 14th Sep 17, 8:35 AM
    • 112 Posts
    • 115 Thanks
    StepChange Private Messages
    Hi Pippa,

    Iím a Debt Advisor at StepChange Debt Charity. Iíve just come across your post; I hope you donít mind me responding. First of all I would say you donít need to be ashamed, problem debt can happen for all kinds of reasons often outside of your control. Whatever your situation, at StepChange weíre always here to help.

    Youíve mentioned that youíve had recent credit from Wonga. Whilst a creditor can object to a DRO on the basis of recent credit, to reassure you this would not rule you out and we would not refuse to submit a DRO application for you on this basis.

    In terms of the spending areas youíve mentioned, the Insolvency Service does have a guidelines which they use when reviewing the budget. However, if you have a good reason why these need to be higher (such as care costs and special dietary requirements) and youíre paying for these costs using your PIP, this can be explained to the Insolvency Service with your application.

    I canít say for certain without seeing your full circumstances whether a DRO would be your best advice but Iíve sent you a private message so that we can get in touch and look into this further for you.

    All the best,

    Kirsty

    I'm ashamed to have to come back here again. I went bankrupt in May 2012 and was discharged January 2013. All that debt was through no fault of my own, having left a DV relationship with little more than the clothes on my back I moved into a small empty flat. I had no idea I was entitled to benefits except child benefit so having had a nervous breakdown gained debts and hid under the duvet crying.

    This time I have to take responsibility for it, I made a stupid decision. The garden had been 6ft-10ft brambles since I moved to this LA property and the wooden fences surrounding it had collapsed. So after 6 years of having nowhere for children to play or hang the washing out I stupidly paid for replacement fencing and the brambles to be cut, all on a credit card of 39.9% for which I thought I'd manage the repayments and more and would pay it off quickly. Things went from bad to worse and in trying to keep up repayments other debt appeared, I couldn't afford to eat etc and I've finally phoned stepchange for advice. The only feasible option is bankruptcy again. Stepchange say that as I've been bankrupt less than 6 years ago I will be treated in a harsher way, be bankrupt for longer, have a payment plan in place for 3-6 years and be constantly monitored.

    I'm still just as ill. Been detained under the Mental health act twice in the last 2 years, I'm living on income related employment support allowance and PIP and that's very unlikely to change. I feel so low I'm fighting off 'way out' thoughts but I've got to try and take this one day at a time. I'm paying my 4 creditors £1 a month as the stepchange calculator says I have £5 a month spare however they said that the insolvency service are unlikely to allow me the allowances I've got on their form. That's help with my disability and specialist food for my eating disorder.

    Apparently I have to open an account with the insolvency service and start paying installments and when I've paid £680 I can file for bankruptcy. That could actually take me ages. So I'm here for the long haul, paying £1 a month to 4 companies and saving in dribbles for the bankruptcy. I'm unsure how my mental health will hold up if the 4 companies don't agree that figure, give the debt to debt agencies or threaten court action. I am in pieces right now. And this time it's all my fault.
    Originally posted by PippaGirl
    I work as a debt advisor for StepChange Debt Charity and have specific permission from Martin to post on these boards to try and help those in debt. Read more information on StepChange Debt Charity in the Debt Problems: What to do and where to get help article. If you find you're struggling with debt and you need further help try our online advice facility Debt Remedy.

    Don't be afraid of getting debt advice. We'll help you take one more step towards getting help with your debt.
    • PippaGirl
    • By PippaGirl 14th Sep 17, 10:15 AM
    • 2,167 Posts
    • 1,790 Thanks
    PippaGirl
    Hi Pippa,I am so sorry you are having a tough time, I remember you as we were going through it a few years ago now.
    I cannot offer any further advice but please do not feel bad you are a good person and will come through this.
    Take care and try to keep strong and positive. x
    Originally posted by luvchocolate
    Thank you, nice to see someone else I know well. Yes we went through much the same.
    "Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." Dalai Lama
    • PippaGirl
    • By PippaGirl 14th Sep 17, 10:17 AM
    • 2,167 Posts
    • 1,790 Thanks
    PippaGirl
    Few thoughts Pippa....and it's NOTHING to be ashamed of..I went bankrupt in 2006 and then looked at DRO a few years ago so your not alone thats for sure
    Originally posted by philnicandevan
    II I don't have to leave my cashminder account with the co-op I won't, so I won't be switching anything over until I know for sure. They've been brilliant and really helpful.
    "Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." Dalai Lama
    • PippaGirl
    • By PippaGirl 14th Sep 17, 10:39 AM
    • 2,167 Posts
    • 1,790 Thanks
    PippaGirl
    Okay here is my calendar month SOA

    Outgoings

    EON (gas & elec) 102
    Virgin Internet 34
    02 mobile 26
    Water 50
    Pets 260 Includes food, flea protection and worming for 1 dog 2 cats and
    three dog walks per week as I'm physically unable to walk her due
    to physical disability
    Hair 25
    Travel 200 Can only use taxis or train. Taxis to hospital & back, Doctors and
    everywhere. One train trip monthly to visit family.
    Netflix 8
    TV Licence 12.12
    food 300 Have eating disorder with lots of fear foods, only eat
    unprocessed foods, no refined sugar, very low/no carbs and buy i in these prepared meals when extremely depressed
    Social 22.08 Annual membership of a social club & £20 spending money
    Rent 472.20

    Total outgoings £1511.40

    Incomings

    ESA 814.67
    Housing benefit 406.08

    Total Incomings £1220.75
    Plus PIP 360.10

    Total including pip £1580.85

    Debt

    Capital One 2089 and rising as unfrozen
    Vanquis 538.49 and rising as unfrozen
    Next 1111.67 and rising as unfrozen
    Local Authority 2184.75 for fencing works billed to me, also about to have broken w wndow replaced

    Total debt £5923.91

    I hope that's clear. TIA
    "Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." Dalai Lama
    • StopIt
    • By StopIt 14th Sep 17, 11:01 AM
    • 1,397 Posts
    • 1,184 Thanks
    StopIt
    Please use this link:


    http://www.stoozing.com/calculator/soa.php


    Click Format for MSE.


    Just makes it easier for those trained in checking these things to go over easier.


    Your total income shows more than £50 surplus but PIP doesn't count for a DRO so you should be OK. I'm sure a good debt advisor at the CAB can make sure a DRO application works for you.


    One thing to look into is the local authority debt. It will certainly need looking at by an expert to make sure it is able to be put into the DRO.
    Last edited by StopIt; 14-09-2017 at 11:03 AM.
    • PippaGirl
    • By PippaGirl 14th Sep 17, 12:03 PM
    • 2,167 Posts
    • 1,790 Thanks
    PippaGirl
    Statement of Affairs and Personal Balance Sheet

    Household Information

    Number of adults in household........... 1
    Number of children in household.........
    Number of cars owned....................

    Monthly Income Details

    Monthly income after tax................ 0
    Partners monthly income after tax....... 0
    Benefits................................ 1220.20
    Other income............................ 0
    Total monthly income.................... 1220.20


    Monthly Expense Details

    Mortgage................................ 0
    Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 0
    Rent.................................... 472.2
    Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
    Council tax............................. 0
    Electricity............................. 82
    Gas..................................... 20
    Oil..................................... 0
    Water rates............................. 50
    Telephone (land line)................... 0
    Mobile phone............................ 26
    TV Licence.............................. 12.12
    Satellite/Cable TV...................... 8
    Internet Services....................... 34
    Groceries etc. ......................... 300
    Clothing................................ 34
    Petrol/diesel........................... 0
    Road tax................................ 0
    Car Insurance........................... 0
    Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 0
    Car parking............................. 0
    Other travel............................ 200
    Childcare/nursery....................... 0
    Other child related expenses............ 0
    Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 30
    Pet insurance/vet bills................. 21
    Buildings insurance..................... 0
    Contents insurance...................... 0
    Life assurance ......................... 0
    Other insurance......................... 0
    Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 35
    Haircuts................................ 25
    Entertainment........................... 22.08
    Holiday................................. 0
    Emergency fund.......................... 11
    Total monthly expenses.................. 1382.4



    Assets

    Cash.................................... 29
    House value (Gross)..................... 0
    Shares and bonds........................ 0
    Car(s).................................. 0
    Other assets............................ 0
    Total Assets............................ 29


    No Secured nor Hire Purchase Debts


    Unsecured Debts
    Description....................Debt......Monthly.. .APR
    capital one ...................2089......0.........39.9
    vanquis........................538.49....0........ .39.9
    Next...........................1111.67...0........ .29.9
    Local authority................2184.75...0.........0
    Total unsecured debts..........5923.91...0.........-



    Monthly Budget Summary

    Total monthly income.................... 1220.20
    Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 1,382.4
    Available for debt repayments........... -162.20
    Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 0
    Amount short for making debt repayments. -162.20


    Personal Balance Sheet Summary
    Total assets (things you own)........... 29
    Total HP & Secured debt................. -0
    Total Unsecured debt.................... -5,923.91
    Net Assets.............................. -5,894.91


    Created using the SOA calculator at www.stoozing.com.
    Reproduced on Moneysavingexpert with permission, using other browser.


    I didn't include my PIP in the benefits as it's not used in calculations? which is 360.10 or housing benefit of 406.08 as there was no space to write the rent down which is
    Last edited by PippaGirl; 14-09-2017 at 12:19 PM.
    "Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." Dalai Lama
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