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    • KirstyO
    • By KirstyO 13th Sep 17, 12:59 PM
    • 289Posts
    • 398Thanks
    KirstyO
    Between a rock and a hard place...
    • #1
    • 13th Sep 17, 12:59 PM
    Between a rock and a hard place... 13th Sep 17 at 12:59 PM
    Hi All,

    Just looking for a vent, and some support from fellow MSE-ers.

    I work for a church which seems to make everything complicated.

    At the moment I am employed as the office manager, and we have a consultant 'bought in' for 3 days a week to oversee the bigger picture (think operations management type thing).

    For what I do I earn a decent salary and I would be unlikely to get the equivalent elsewhere for the same role.

    This morning, I was invited to a meeting with the two senior vicars who informed me that they were thinking of a restructure which would make my job redundant.

    They would like to employ a Church Manager (salary 4k above my current) who would oversee administration and operations including building maintenance and project management, all of the grounds, sit on all of the committees and so on. My skills and experience are entirely not fit for this, I don't have senior leadership experience, I have never done project management and knowing at least two of the people who would apply for such a role, I don't stand a chance.

    To keep the office running they would appoint an administrator who would do what I am doing now but with slightly less responsibility, but would still have supervision of volunteers in the office. This role would pay 8k less than I am on now.

    I live alone so financially I need to be able to cover all of my outgoings myself. It would be possible on the lower salary but I would have to make some lifestyle changes (fine).

    As I am the only person effectively in my department and my role, it is very easy to wonder whether they think I am being lazy in my job and I'm not worth as much as they first thought, or whether I am not living up to expectations which should have been raised a long time ago (I am almost three years into the role).

    I have also had 4 months off recently with depression and anxiety, and I can't prove that this has/hasnt impacted on their decision.

    As I have been given a letter to such effect, and job specs for both the church manager and administrator job I believe legally I am now in a period of consultation. I don't know what to do. I want to fight for my job, but realistically I know that the decision will be almost impossible to overturn.

    I suppose I am left with a few options:
    1) Accept it and either apply for the lower paid job, and just work out my finances better
    2) Fight tooth and nail to keep my current role and salary
    3) Offer to continue doing what I'm doing but take a pay cut to a mutually agreeable midpoint while keeping some responsibility
    4) Start looking for another job

    It's just come at a really sucky time as I'm also planning a wedding for next year - but that doesn't really have anything to do with it (I hope).

    I enjoy working here, but I'm not sure how embittered I would feel doing what is basically the same role for less money. Being a small team in a charitable organisation, all of us already get asked to do more than what would be expected of us in the secular world. Also of course there is the chance that I could apply for the administrator role and be unsuccessful, and then I really would be annoyed. There is an element to working in a church that goes above and beyond financial motivations, but living alone with a mortgage it is important that I can meet my obligations, as my mortgage was taken out a couple of years ago on my generous salary.

    Part of me wants to see if I can dig around in this for some kind of unfair/constructive dismissal but another part of me doesn't want to because I know it will hurt those I work with and for, and it's probably just a knee-jerk reaction to bad news.

    Hints, tips, more options or just good advice very much appreciated!

    K
    Debt free on 2nd January 2015
    Next savings goals:
    £5k emergency fund
    £4k holiday of a lifetime fund
Page 1
    • Scorpio33
    • By Scorpio33 13th Sep 17, 2:56 PM
    • 452 Posts
    • 650 Thanks
    Scorpio33
    • #2
    • 13th Sep 17, 2:56 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Sep 17, 2:56 PM
    Well I don't think (2) is worth doing. I doubt that any good will come of it, apart from cause resentment. You will not be able to keep the current role as the current role is being made redundant. That has already been decided. Legally, I think you can challenge the business reasons behind it or come up with an alternative, but practically, the decision has been made and you won't be able to reverse it.

    I think if you do (1), it would probably merge into (3) anyway in time. Do that if you are happy with the pay cut.

    If you do (4), it depends on what else is out there. If the local job market means that you can easily find something equivalent elsewhere, then go for option 4. If not, got for option 1 / 3.
    • KirstyO
    • By KirstyO 13th Sep 17, 4:19 PM
    • 289 Posts
    • 398 Thanks
    KirstyO
    • #3
    • 13th Sep 17, 4:19 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Sep 17, 4:19 PM
    Thanks,

    Ive just been for a coffee with a friend and we came to a shocking realisation that could put the brakes on everything anyway. To my knowledge I am the only one at risk of redundancy but there are at least 7 people on the payroll of the organisation...
    Debt free on 2nd January 2015
    Next savings goals:
    £5k emergency fund
    £4k holiday of a lifetime fund
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 13th Sep 17, 4:41 PM
    • 15,143 Posts
    • 14,757 Thanks
    Guest101
    • #4
    • 13th Sep 17, 4:41 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Sep 17, 4:41 PM
    Thanks,

    Ive just been for a coffee with a friend and we came to a shocking realisation that could put the brakes on everything anyway. To my knowledge I am the only one at risk of redundancy but there are at least 7 people on the payroll of the organisation...
    Originally posted by KirstyO
    why does that matter?


    You are not being made redundant, your role is.
    • KirstyO
    • By KirstyO 13th Sep 17, 6:40 PM
    • 289 Posts
    • 398 Thanks
    KirstyO
    • #5
    • 13th Sep 17, 6:40 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Sep 17, 6:40 PM
    Because they are classing it as restructuring, but they havent considered other roles as part of that. There is another person that works in an admin capacity and her role hasnt been touched but would definitely fall withing the same 'function' of the organisation
    Debt free on 2nd January 2015
    Next savings goals:
    £5k emergency fund
    £4k holiday of a lifetime fund
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 13th Sep 17, 7:09 PM
    • 3,716 Posts
    • 6,100 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #6
    • 13th Sep 17, 7:09 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Sep 17, 7:09 PM
    Because they are classing it as restructuring, but they havent considered other roles as part of that. There is another person that works in an admin capacity and her role hasnt been touched but would definitely fall withing the same 'function' of the organisation
    Originally posted by KirstyO
    Is her job exactly the same as yours ? If not it is irrelevant. It is your role that is behind made redundant. Not admin roles generally.

    By the way. If you think you are not expected to work harder in the "secular world", you might be in for a shock.
    • KirstyO
    • By KirstyO 13th Sep 17, 7:35 PM
    • 289 Posts
    • 398 Thanks
    KirstyO
    • #7
    • 13th Sep 17, 7:35 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Sep 17, 7:35 PM
    By the way. If you think you are not expected to work harder in the "secular world", you might be in for a shock.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    I know what it means to work outside of a church environment, and whatever this is or isnt, I was only saying it is easy to wonder whether it is something about me and/or my work ethic. Just an intial response while the news sinks in. I was in no way implying that one sector or working environment is any easier or harder than another. A job is only easy if you have the skills to do it, after all.

    I am well aware that nothing in this world comes easy, and have worked in various other jobs over the years, some physically demanding and some intellectually demanding, but all of them with challenges.

    I was merely pointing out that the proposed changes affect 'the office' and I got the impression from my meeting today that it was only my role that had been considered in all of this, so I will be asking the question at my next meeting.
    Debt free on 2nd January 2015
    Next savings goals:
    £5k emergency fund
    £4k holiday of a lifetime fund
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 13th Sep 17, 7:47 PM
    • 3,716 Posts
    • 6,100 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #8
    • 13th Sep 17, 7:47 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Sep 17, 7:47 PM
    There is no reason why any other role, unless it is the same as yours, should be included.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 14th Sep 17, 6:48 PM
    • 15,380 Posts
    • 8,788 Thanks
    motorguy
    • #9
    • 14th Sep 17, 6:48 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Sep 17, 6:48 PM
    I was merely pointing out that the proposed changes affect 'the office' and I got the impression from my meeting today that it was only my role that had been considered in all of this, so I will be asking the question at my next meeting.
    Originally posted by KirstyO
    They've reviewed the current roles and decided to restructure which makes your current role no longer required.

    As Sangie has said, unless there is someone else doing an identical role to you then its not relevant that noone else has been put at risk of redundancy.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 14th Sep 17, 7:29 PM
    • 22,881 Posts
    • 13,243 Thanks
    xylophone
    You have looked into the terms of the redundancy?

    You are looking into applying for other jobs?

    Your chance to find interesting work in a new field?
    • polgara
    • By polgara 15th Sep 17, 10:31 AM
    • 307 Posts
    • 259 Thanks
    polgara
    Chances are during your absence they have had time to review whether they needed your role and realise they needed something different. However, this does not follow that it is unfair or constructive dismissal.

    My advice, put your rationale for why your role is needed, but start looking for alternative roles or get used to the fact that your role/salary will be changing.
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