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  • FIRST POST
    • Martinosad
    • By Martinosad 12th Oct 17, 12:53 AM
    • 11Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Martinosad
    Need advice been dismissed after 33yrs service
    • #1
    • 12th Oct 17, 12:53 AM
    Need advice been dismissed after 33yrs service 12th Oct 17 at 12:53 AM
    Please forgive me if this post is in the wrong place.I have been dismissed for fraud and misuse of time misuse of council property when carrying out my overtime and union duties ,I got my appeal next month build no hope,y employer has single me out when me and finish is common practice,an I asked for permission me my line manąger has lied, management refused to show other workers trackers stating dąta protection,when infact identafcation can be hidden ,any advice please would be m9re than welcome
Page 2
    • Martinosad
    • By Martinosad 12th Oct 17, 11:33 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Martinosad
    right all firstly I am having counselling, so a member of management can commit fraud? When actually colleagues worked 6hrs and was told to book 12hrs? management know and allowed this practice and I was given permission(wish I had it written) I did not wilfully commit fraud, management have said there was a supervisor on duty on Saturdays I never seen anyone and there are trackers on the vans ,so only a fool would do this without permission I can prove that I only done job and finish for 4 months the rest of the last 25yrs was worked up to time my tracker information proves that ,management was requesting me to meetings in my working day so how can that be misuse of time? I posted on here not to be treated as a fool but to get some advice, my employer has now said that they are withholding 4 months worth of annual leave , I understand what you are all saying but 33yrs of unblemished record , its obviously that my union duties and they wanted me out ,3 days hearing and mostly discussed my union role and how my section management was afraid of me not as an employee but as a union official? I have attended meetings with the chief exe(on paid time outside my facility time) and he gave me a good character reference and the leader of the council did? I have had a very positive relationship with all management levels on all sections but mine? I did not abuse my position as a union rep in all the 25yrs I did it ? no one from any management complain I was carrying out union duties outside my facility time? my manager complain to our chief officer she said in her statement and he did nothing not even mentioned it to me? When I walk in the office all I had was look out here's trouble coming or look out hears union coming and silence when I walk in all I ever did was to try and help my colleagues, if my supervisor said to only book the time worked I would have but he just ok? I have also been accused of personal calls on the works phone I was given permission for union duties and the phone was provided by the union and was a council sim card, making calls on the weekend, I replied if it was not acceptable to carry out union work on weekends then why not tell me?i was a marked man
    Last edited by Martinosad; 12-10-2017 at 11:38 PM.
    • nicechap
    • By nicechap 13th Oct 17, 7:58 AM
    • 840 Posts
    • 1,907 Thanks
    nicechap
    As a union official what have your union advised?

    Seems very strange to me that you are asking strangers on the internet, but not apparently listening to the advice proffered when you would have access to employment law experts and lawyers via your membership.
    Quote was right and saw into the future.
    • Martinosad
    • By Martinosad 13th Oct 17, 8:30 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Martinosad
    Was a union rep turns out just as bad as each others corrupt to the core
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 13th Oct 17, 8:57 AM
    • 4,162 Posts
    • 6,849 Thanks
    sangie595
    Was a union rep turns out just as bad as each others corrupt to the core
    Originally posted by Martinosad
    And I had in fact noticed that you didn't answer either comment I asked about the union. I'll interpret this as the union also didn't tell you what you want to hear.

    It doesn't matter whether this was a result of your union activities or not - although if you have been active for 25 years that does seem a bit unlikely that they would only now target you - the things you were dismissed for are gross misconduct in anyone's book. You are not being treated as a fool - you are receiving the very best advice that we can give you given that you are guilty of what you are accused of doing. An unblemished record of 33 years does not excuse misconduct - you know that because there is a first time for everyone, whether that is days, months or years.

    However, I am concerned that the more you disclose, the worse it looks. If you have been a union official in a council for 25 years (I thought that you had only recently taken over as a rep when the convenor took redundancy), then you know for a fact that variations to contract must be done in writing. You got no such variation. You have no evidence that your manager agreed this variation, or why, or for how long. And you cannot claim "custom and practice" if, until 4 months ago, you had always worked your full hours and knew that you had to work them. Your own arguments are unravelling.

    And I think you appear to misunderstand facility time. Being a union rep is a voluntary role. Facility time is a contribution towards your role - but you are expected to put in your own time, and that is part of the package. It is what you volunteered for.

    Anyway, I can't see this discussion going anywhere. You cannot accept or agree with the comments being made and insist that your position is the correct one. There is little point in repeating the same advice. I am sorry that we can't help you more, but I am afraid that unless there is some new information to add, all I can recommend is that you either reread the advice carefully to understand the points made, or pay for independent legal advice.
    • Martinosad
    • By Martinosad 13th Oct 17, 9:54 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Martinosad
    My full time officer has said to me its all about my union duties belt and braces approach,and that dismissal was harsh and not warranted and we put up a good defence,there's alot going on with certain people that have a personal interest in seeing me dismissed its a very complicated case to put in a short sentence,I was suspended for over 18 months due to ill health and available to attend any work related matters,I know what your saying but its not black and white like you think the lies from management,I know i been to trusting and will learn from my mistake,acas was involved and my employer told acas it was nothing to do with my union role yet most of my hearing was from certain mangers saying only problem with me is when I was a union rep making out I was some kind of monster?I appreciate you taking the time to respond but nothing is fair in this world that's what i realised,my employer has not been consistant in its approach in my case,I hope it has come over to you all what iam trying to say
    • Martinosad
    • By Martinosad 13th Oct 17, 9:58 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Martinosad
    Some good news I have just been offered a job and I was honest about my dismissal
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 13th Oct 17, 10:21 AM
    • 4,162 Posts
    • 6,849 Thanks
    sangie595
    Some good news I have just been offered a job and I was honest about my dismissal
    Originally posted by Martinosad
    That is really great news. I'm very pleased for you. Time to draw a line under the past, and move on. It's also nice to hear that you got the job having told the truth about the dismissal. We often get people trying to cover something like this up, and I always have to point out that honesty doesn't mean nobody will employ you, but dishonesty can get you dismissed again! You have proven that point.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 13th Oct 17, 10:25 AM
    • 4,162 Posts
    • 6,849 Thanks
    sangie595
    My full time officer has said to me its all about my union duties belt and braces approach,and that dismissal was harsh and not warranted and we put up a good defence,there's alot going on with certain people that have a personal interest in seeing me dismissed its a very complicated case to put in a short sentence,I was suspended for over 18 months due to ill health and available to attend any work related matters,I know what your saying but its not black and white like you think the lies from management,I know i been to trusting and will learn from my mistake,acas was involved and my employer told acas it was nothing to do with my union role yet most of my hearing was from certain mangers saying only problem with me is when I was a union rep making out I was some kind of monster?I appreciate you taking the time to respond but nothing is fair in this world that's what i realised,my employer has not been consistant in its approach in my case,I hope it has come over to you all what iam trying to say
    Originally posted by Martinosad
    I totally understand. I don't think it's black and white. But the evidence is! We all know that people get dismissed for their union activity, but they must be able to prove that. The employer here proved it was for another reason, and that is what had got you dismissed. But now you have another job, move on. Sometimes the worst things happen for a reason, and you may find that this is the start of a new chapter.
    • Martinosad
    • By Martinosad 13th Oct 17, 10:37 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Martinosad
    yes I think you are spot on, I only wish is to clear my name I would not go back working there ever, let down by the union cannot believe it after all the years I put in they treat me like the plague I guess when I not doing there dirty work, still got the internal appeal and will make sure I will give them HELL lol
    • Martinosad
    • By Martinosad 13th Oct 17, 10:39 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Martinosad
    any advice for the appeal? just to get my point across will love to drop some of the management that lied in it just to make me feel better if nothing else
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 13th Oct 17, 10:41 AM
    • 3,175 Posts
    • 2,893 Thanks
    Undervalued
    any advice for the appeal? just to get my point across will love to drop some of the management that lied in it just to make me feel better if nothing else
    Originally posted by Martinosad
    Before setting out for revenge, first dig two graves!
    • Martinosad
    • By Martinosad 13th Oct 17, 10:43 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Martinosad
    lol get them to do it lol, can anyone give me some good advice for the appeal hearing, I am still not back to myself with mental illness and tablets cloud my judgment
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 13th Oct 17, 11:48 AM
    • 4,162 Posts
    • 6,849 Thanks
    sangie595
    lol get them to do it lol, can anyone give me some good advice for the appeal hearing, I am still not back to myself with mental illness and tablets cloud my judgment
    Originally posted by Martinosad
    You won't want to hear this, so don't react - think about it. The best advice is to withdraw the appeal. You can't "give them hell". And this is only damaging yourself, keeping the lost battle going. Undervalued is right - but it'll be you that ends up in the grave, not them. You don't want to go back, and you have a new job. They won't clear your name, so you are doing nothing but preserving the anger you feel, and that is hurting you. I know you aren't listening to this because it's unpalatable, but you need to. I am sure you are right and your union activity has played into the dismissal. And your union rep said the same thing to you. But you know better than this - you have not a shred of evidence to support that claim. The dismissal is fair in law, and there is not a thing that the union can do about that. You must, in 25 years, have been in that position with members before. Where something may not be right or fair, but legally it is. You know the difference! I know you do because nobody in a union for 25 years doesn't....

    When something like this happens to a union officer, there is only ONE thing that makes an employer back down. I know you know what that is too. It isn't a union official - it's the members of the union taking industrial action to protect their rep and their own interests. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen so much now, and your former colleagues aren't going to stand up for you. If they were, they'd have done it before now. I've been there, done that and got the t-shirt - except my then employer wasn't as clever because their trumped up evidence was readily disproved and their manufactured evidence was easy to prove incorrect. It's rubbish, but this isn't the unions fault. There's nothing they can do. It's the members fault if you want too blame someone.

    So, honestly, I'd not put myself through this. You have nothing to gain and a lot to lose in terms of your health.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 13th Oct 17, 12:46 PM
    • 4,229 Posts
    • 4,401 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    How will your new employer feel if you have to request time off to attend the appeal / tribunal. You have a new job so it's time to leave the past behind. The only person who will suffer if you don't is you.
    A former colleague of my wife was effectively forced out of his job over 10 years ago. He still keeps in touch with my wife and every time they have any contact he still goes on about the b******* who destroyed his life. It achieves absolutely nothing.
    • Caroline_a
    • By Caroline_a 13th Oct 17, 1:35 PM
    • 3,873 Posts
    • 10,673 Thanks
    Caroline_a
    I was royally screwed over by a union many years ago and have never joined one since. I agree with the others that you should drop the appeal and move on, put all your energies into the new job and get your revenge by knowing that they lost a loyal and hardworking union member/employee.
    • Martinosad
    • By Martinosad 13th Oct 17, 9:08 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Martinosad
    Yes I have told my new employer . I just want to stand in front off them tell them the truth and smile in their faces, to show im not beaten and down then I can happily move on
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