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  • FIRST POST
    • iammumtoone
    • By iammumtoone 12th Oct 17, 10:05 PM
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    iammumtoone
    signing contract for job you didnt take
    • #1
    • 12th Oct 17, 10:05 PM
    signing contract for job you didnt take 12th Oct 17 at 10:05 PM
    I will try to explain the best I can (please bear with me)

    Lets say previously I sold Round Blue widgets (I have experience of selling Round widgets)

    I applied for a job selling Round widgets (not just blue but other colours as well) This job also involved selling Square widgets, something new to me which I would have to learn. I withdrew my application for this job partly due to personal issues but also because I knew it would be too much, I knew the selling of all the Round widgets (as I did part of the job) would take up all my time and I wouldn't be able to mange the square as well.

    Company then approached me to ask if I wanted to just sell just Round widgets (all colours and more of them). I agreed to this job and someone else took on the selling of the Square

    Still with me...... all good so far

    I have been given my new contract and it has the job title of the job I didn't apply for which involves the selling of round and square. I was previous given a job spec with this title so I have it in writing what this job title involves doing.

    I don't want to sign as I don't want that job and am not currently doing it (well not all of it). I also know I wouldn't be able to do it. Company refuse to change the job title on the contract stating in future I might have to do some selling of square. A tiny bit of square selling I might be able to manage but certainly not the amount that is listed on the job spec that matches the job title on my contract.

    What do I do, I am aware I don't have to sign it if I carry on working I will have assumed to accept it. Can they suddenly in a few months time give me all the extra work and say I signed contract agreeing to do it
    Last edited by iammumtoone; 12-10-2017 at 10:18 PM.
Page 1
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 12th Oct 17, 10:16 PM
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    sangie595
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 17, 10:16 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Oct 17, 10:16 PM
    I will try to explain the best I can (please bear with me)

    Lets say previously I sold Round Blue widgets (I have experience of selling Round widgets)

    I applied for a job selling Round widgets (not just blue but other colours as well) This job also involved selling Square widgets, something new to me which I would have to learn. I withdrew my application for this job partly due to personal issues but also because I knew it would be too much, I knew the selling of all the Round widgets (as I did part of the job) would take up all my time and I wouldn't be able to mange the square as well.

    Company then approached me to ask if I wanted to just sell just Round widgets (all colours and more of them). I agreed to this job and someone else took on the selling of the Square

    Still with me...... all good so far

    I have been given my new contract and it has the job title (I was previous given a job spec with this title) of the job I didn't apply for which involves the selling of round and square.

    I don't want to sign as I don't want that job and am not currently doing it (well not all of it). I also know I wouldn't be able to do it. Company refuse to change the job title on the contract stating in future I might have to do some selling of square. A tiny bit of square selling I might be able to manage but certainly not the amount that is listed on the job spec that matches the job title on my contract.

    What do I do, I am aware I don't have to sign it if I carry on working I will have assumed to accept it. Can they suddenly in a few months time give me all the extra work and say I signed contract agreeing to do it
    Originally posted by iammumtoone
    You have answered your own question. If you carry on working you are deemed to have accepted the contract.
    • iammumtoone
    • By iammumtoone 12th Oct 17, 10:23 PM
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    iammumtoone
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 17, 10:23 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Oct 17, 10:23 PM
    You have answered your own question. If you carry on working you are deemed to have accepted the contract.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    Yes I know so what are my options?

    Leave - will I be able to apply for JSA I have nothing in writing what the job I verbally accepted involves - that is not the job stated on the contract.

    Stay - if I do can they be to make me do the job that is stated on the contract.
    Last edited by iammumtoone; 12-10-2017 at 10:31 PM.
    • iammumtoone
    • By iammumtoone 12th Oct 17, 10:25 PM
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    iammumtoone
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 17, 10:25 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Oct 17, 10:25 PM
    Are they allowed to do this, give me a contract which is not the job I agreed to do, especially as I did not apply for the job that is listed on the contract.
    • theoretica
    • By theoretica 12th Oct 17, 10:48 PM
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    theoretica
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 17, 10:48 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 17, 10:48 PM
    Doesn't the contract include some wording about other duties as the company requires? That would probably cover selling anything they told you to, whether specifically mentioned or not.
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
    Had the whole of their cash in his care.
    Lewis Carroll
    • iammumtoone
    • By iammumtoone 12th Oct 17, 11:16 PM
    • 5,065 Posts
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    iammumtoone
    • #6
    • 12th Oct 17, 11:16 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Oct 17, 11:16 PM
    Doesn't the contract include some wording about other duties as the company requires? That would probably cover selling anything they told you to, whether specifically mentioned or not.
    Originally posted by theoretica
    Yes it does I have signed contracts in the past that state this, under the impression that the other duties given would be fair and reasonable.

    The selling of round widgets takes up all my time and more. I am having to do unpaid overtime to complete tasks, I am ok with this its a well paid job and I expected it (especially when busy).

    I have spoken to the person currently selling square and that takes 2 days a week. I can't do 7 days work in less than 5 its unreasonable. I believe the company have realised this hence why I am currently not doing it but the refuse to change/re-word the contract.
    • theoretica
    • By theoretica 12th Oct 17, 11:47 PM
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    theoretica
    • #7
    • 12th Oct 17, 11:47 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Oct 17, 11:47 PM
    So the issue isn't really which things you sell, but how many of them and how much stuff you need to generate? If the bottom fell out of the round widget market and no one was buying you would be happy selling other shapes?

    I don't really think you will get a contract to say 'we will never try to overwork you'.
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
    Had the whole of their cash in his care.
    Lewis Carroll
    • iammumtoone
    • By iammumtoone 13th Oct 17, 8:00 AM
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    iammumtoone
    • #8
    • 13th Oct 17, 8:00 AM
    • #8
    • 13th Oct 17, 8:00 AM
    So the issue isn't really which things you sell, but how many of them and how much stuff you need to generate? If the bottom fell out of the round widget market and no one was buying you would be happy selling other shapes?

    I don't really think you will get a contract to say 'we will never try to overwork you'.
    Originally posted by theoretica
    In this situation (fictitious company/job selling widgets) if the bottom fell out of the round widget job/market then there would be no job for anyone the company could not exist.

    I realise a company will always try to overwork its staff they already have on the job I am doing

    I want a contract for the job I agreed to do (and am doing), not one for the job I decided I would not apply for.

    Even thought I used selling of two products as my example really the two products are different roles.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 13th Oct 17, 9:02 AM
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    sangie595
    • #9
    • 13th Oct 17, 9:02 AM
    • #9
    • 13th Oct 17, 9:02 AM
    Again you have answered your own question. This is the job. It doesn't matter what you thought the job was. This is obviously a new job - so you don't have any employment protection. Leave. Or do the job whilst looking for another one. You have no other options. You are a new employee and you cannot force the employer to provide you with the job that you want. Try to and you will be out of work anyway. And explaining a dismissal is just as difficult as a resignation. Sorry, but this is the job that you are stuck with until you find another one.
    • iammumtoone
    • By iammumtoone 13th Oct 17, 5:36 PM
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    iammumtoone
    Again you have answered your own question. This is the job. It doesn't matter what you thought the job was. This is obviously a new job - so you don't have any employment protection. Leave. Or do the job whilst looking for another one. You have no other options. You are a new employee and you cannot force the employer to provide you with the job that you want. Try to and you will be out of work anyway. And explaining a dismissal is just as difficult as a resignation. Sorry, but this is the job that you are stuck with until you find another one.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    No its not a new job I am still with the same company been there over two years. If it was a new job i don't think I would be in this situation as I would have seen the contract before I agreed to/started the job.

    I know what the company are doing is wrong and not allowed but I don't want to rock the boat as I need a job. I probably could formally complain but don't want to just want to try to get my contact to match the job I am doing.
    Last edited by iammumtoone; 13-10-2017 at 5:57 PM.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 13th Oct 17, 5:59 PM
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    sangie595
    No its not a new job I am still with the same company been there over two years. If it was a new job i don't think I would be in this situation as I would have seen the contract before I agreed to/started the job.

    I know what the company are doing is wrong and not allowed but I don't want to rock the boat too much as I need a job. I probably could formally complain but don't want to just want to try to get my contact to match the job I am doing.
    Originally posted by iammumtoone
    Actually, there's no evidence yet that they are doing anything wrong or not allowed. Jobs can be changed. Easily. And I think you'd struggle to convince an employment tribunal that selling something round instead of just something square, when on the same pay and terms, was unfair in law. So until you can evidence that this is something beyond the legal definition of fair, it's right and allowed! And if you aren't willing to do anything about it anyway, it's right and allowed!
    • iammumtoone
    • By iammumtoone 13th Oct 17, 6:46 PM
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    iammumtoone
    Ok so I sign the contract for a job I am not doing, I do understand if the company wont change it I have no choice, especially if they haven't done anything wrong.

    Who do I now report to? do I start reporting to the person who is listed as my manager on the job the contract states. or do I carry on reporting to the person whos my boss in the job I am actually doing?

    The person I currently report to and work for, the role the contract states is nothing to do with them. I currently have nothing to do with the person who I should be reporting to for doing the role the contract states (this person will have no idea of what the job I am doing involves - they are in a completely different department)
    Last edited by iammumtoone; 13-10-2017 at 7:35 PM.
    • theoretica
    • By theoretica 13th Oct 17, 6:48 PM
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    theoretica
    If an employer has more people doing a role than it thinks it needs that can be a redundancy situation.
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
    Had the whole of their cash in his care.
    Lewis Carroll
    • iammumtoone
    • By iammumtoone 13th Oct 17, 6:55 PM
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    iammumtoone
    If an employer has more people doing a role than it thinks it needs that can be a redundancy situation.
    Originally posted by theoretica
    Ok fair enough but shouldn't they have stated that from the start and offered the new roles just one in each department rather than offering merged roles which they then decide not to go ahead with? but keep the contracts as if they were.
    Last edited by iammumtoone; 13-10-2017 at 7:17 PM.
    Sealed pot challenge ~ 10 #017
    Declutter 2017 items in 2017 - 78/2017

    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 13th Oct 17, 7:19 PM
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    sangie595
    This is a public site. If you want private legal advice, you need to pay a lawyer. Many people benefit from the posts here, and deciding what you will delete and what you won't is unfair to them and the people spending time trying to help you.

    The employer has done nothing wrong. The role you had was possibly redundant, but a suitable alternative existed and they have given you that. That is the law. It is what they must do. However, it may not even be necessary to consider it a redundancy - variance of contractual conditions and job descriptions is common, and quite legal. The fact that you are currently not doing the full role is irrelevant. Restructuring of this type is common and provides employers with a more flexible workforce. If you are unclear about who your line manager is, nobody here can answer that - ask your employer.

    I suggest that you do not in future demand that people don't quote posts. It's an invitation to ignore it. If you do not wish to post, then don't.
    • iammumtoone
    • By iammumtoone 13th Oct 17, 7:30 PM
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    iammumtoone
    Apologies if I have offended I did not want the post quoted as I could be identified from it, I tried my best to relay the situation without identifying myself as such but felt it would help more if I give more detail.

    I do appreciate the help that has been given. I am not normally one to go round deleting my posts/threads as I do know it helps others.
    • NewShadow
    • By NewShadow 14th Oct 17, 11:42 AM
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    NewShadow
    Apologies if I have offended I did not want the post quoted as I could be identified from it, I tried my best to relay the situation without identifying myself as such but felt it would help more if I give more detail.
    Originally posted by iammumtoone
    Not offended but want you to know - posting extra, potentially identifying detail then deleting it - it's normally clear from the responses that a post was deleted and it just took me 30 seconds on google quoting the post title to find the cached versions of the page and the deleted post (post ending: "As said I do not want to rock the boat I just want my contract to state a job that is possible not something that is impossible for one person to achieve.").

    Nothing is ever really deleted on the internet therefore if you may want to be careful what you choose to post on the forum.

    AFAIK the only sub-forum which isn't routinely cached is discussion time
    That sounds like a classic case of premature extrapolation.
    • iammumtoone
    • By iammumtoone 14th Oct 17, 11:45 AM
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    iammumtoone
    Not offended but want you to know - posting extra, potentially identifying detail then deleting it - it's normally clear from the responses that a post was deleted and it just took me 30 seconds on google quoting the post title to find the cached versions of the page and the deleted post (post ending: "As said I do not want to rock the boat I just want my contract to state a job that is possible not something that is impossible for one person to achieve.").

    Nothing is ever really deleted on the internet therefore if you may want to be careful what you choose to post on the forum.

    AFAIK the only sub-forum which isn't routinely cached is discussion time
    Originally posted by NewShadow
    Yes I do realise that but thats only because it was mentioned that I deleted a post for people to know to go looking for it.

    If there had been no mention of the deleted post then I doubt people go round checking every thread to see if anyone has deleted anything.
    Last edited by iammumtoone; 14-10-2017 at 11:52 AM.
    • NewShadow
    • By NewShadow 14th Oct 17, 3:07 PM
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    NewShadow
    Yes I do realise that but thats only because it was mentioned that I deleted a post for people to know to go looking for it.

    If there had been no mention of the deleted post then I doubt people go round checking every thread to see if anyone has deleted anything.
    Originally posted by iammumtoone
    Yes and no. On this thread you did, but the reason you posted extra detail was to inform the responses you were receiving - therefore it would be reasonable to consider the risk related to posting that additional information in the first place.

    You may not be in the habit of deleting posts but you can't deny some people do and that it's often evident when selected posts have been deleted.

    Even if you hadn't commented on the post being deleted - there is a step change in the responses to this threads when posters start talking about redundancy - there's nothing in your existing posts to suggest this is a redundancy situation so it begs the question where that idea came from.

    Either way - I just wanted to make sure you were fully aware of the potential risks of any future course of action you choose to take and wish you the best in resolving your current situation to your satisfaction.

    That sounds like a classic case of premature extrapolation.
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