IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including QR codes, number plates and reference numbers.

****Help with POPLA appeal****

Options
1356789

Comments

  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,350 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    Options
    Still needs more. Here's a checklist of items to research and include if appropriate. If you're not including one (or more) please tell us why.

    No keeper liability, including Notice to Keeper errors (PoFA 2012)
    The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who was liable for the charge
    No Contract to manage parking
    No Locus Standi
    Signage
    Consumer Rights Act 2015
    BPA Code of Practice breaches
    Why Beavis doesn't apply in your parking event

    No need to rush this, unless you're bang up against the POPLA deadline.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • jack123456
    jack123456 Posts: 50 Forumite
    Options
    Just a quick one with 'The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who was liable for the charge' note, as my NTK confirms there is the choice to make them aware of who was driving the vehicle, thus transferring liability to this person, would I still be able to pursue this route?


    When reading through a lot of POPLA drafts, this is something confusing me, it mentions if the operator does not comply with POFA then it is up to them to confirm who was driving the vehicle, I am not sure if they have complied or not with the notice I received?


    Thank you,
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,350 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    edited 20 May 2017 at 6:57PM
    Options
    Just a quick one with 'The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who was liable for the charge' note, as my NTK confirms there is the choice to make them aware of who was driving the vehicle, thus transferring liability to this person, would I still be able to pursue this route?
    The very last thing you do is confirm who the driver was. As keeper you have full protection from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. If the PPC doesn't know who the driver was, in order to transfer liability to the keeper, they must jump through every hoop put in their way by PoFA. Most PPCs fail spectacularly.
    When reading through a lot of POPLA drafts, this is something confusing me, it mentions if the operator does not comply with POFA then it is up to them to confirm who was driving the vehicle, I am not sure if they have complied or not with the notice I received?
    You compare your NtK pedantically (and I mean absolutely pedantically), word by word, line by line, against the requirements placed on the PPC by PoFA.

    Check your NtK against the requirements - windscreen ticket, paragraph 8, ANPR notice, paragraph 9.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

    Fail on any one point - total fail.

    This further link might also help.

    http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/keeper-liability/

    Having said all that PE's NtKs are pretty watertight (but that doesn't mean leaving anything out of your POPLA appeal - it's up to PE to prove they meet requirements). Does your NtK's front page, final paragraph state 'if after 29 days........' or is there a blank space like a paragraph has been removed?
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,691 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Options
    This person's thread shows what I call a 'Golden Ticket' (a non-POFA one from PE):

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5651185

    So, is yours like that, word for word? Nothing saying that 'within 29 days, the keeper will be liable?'
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • jack123456
    jack123456 Posts: 50 Forumite
    Options
    Ah brilliant thanks guys! The parking cowboys post helped me understand, awesome 😊. Mine doesn't appear to be a 'golden ticket' one, as it states that payment is required within 29 days etc. I don't see anything from POFA that I could pick from to contest, as you said, PE ticket seems to be water tight. Well, I say water tight, the car park in the letter is a road that doesn't appear to exist, there are no roads surrounding the car park of this name.
  • jack123456
    jack123456 Posts: 50 Forumite
    Options
    Just double checked again, confirmation that if I do not pay within 29 days they will pursue me for the money. I don't know whether that is classed as a golden ticket or not? Apologies for my lack of knowledge on these things.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,691 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Options
    I gave you a link to a thread with a picture of one.

    I didn't ask what it said about making payment within 28 days.

    I asked what it said (if anything) about keeper liability after 29 days?

    Why not simply look at the scan of the PCN in the thread I linked for you to look at?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • jack123456
    jack123456 Posts: 50 Forumite
    Options
    Apologies. I had missed where the link was and thought by answering what I did would have been sufficient. My PCN looks nothing like that. I here provide links to my PCN, hopefully this will help.

    https://flic.kr/p/TLdGHa

    https://flic.kr/p/UKmjpd
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,691 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Options
    Ah so it's an old-style one from March, and it DOES talk about keeper liability within 29 days. So that is not a golden ticket.

    What did Audrey say when you complained to Sunderland NHS Trust, or PALS? Audrey always used to cancel when people complained if they were patients/visitors. Complain in writing to PALS, or BEFORE doing a POPLA appeal. No need to ask what PALS is, you are sitting at a PC!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • jack123456
    jack123456 Posts: 50 Forumite
    Options
    I will do that tomorrow, thank you very much for your help.
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 343.2K Banking & Borrowing
  • 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.7K Spending & Discounts
  • 235.3K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 608.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 173.1K Life & Family
  • 247.9K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards