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  • FIRST POST
    • fewkeste
    • By fewkeste 21st Apr 17, 5:18 PM
    • 111Posts
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    fewkeste
    Add your feedback on energy supplier Powershop
    • #1
    • 21st Apr 17, 5:18 PM
    Add your feedback on energy supplier Powershop 21st Apr 17 at 5:18 PM
    I'm just in the process of switching from Robin Hood Energy to Powershop and would like to receive feedback and comments about this new supplier. Apparently they are well established in Australia and New Zealand and are operating in the UK under the Npower licence at present.
Page 1
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 21st Apr 17, 8:26 PM
    • 4,386 Posts
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    Hengus
    • #2
    • 21st Apr 17, 8:26 PM
    • #2
    • 21st Apr 17, 8:26 PM
    I'm just in the process of switching from Robin Hood Energy to Powershop and would like to receive feedback and comments about this new supplier. Apparently they are well established in Australia and New Zealand and are operating in the UK under the Npower licence at present.
    Originally posted by fewkeste
    An interesting proposition which might suit some people who are happy just to buy energy as and when they need it. It does seem to be additional work for very little financial gain.

    Two downsides for me: one, it is a NPower franchise and, two, there seems to be implicit consent in the ts and cs for NPower to fit a smart meter.
    • fewkeste
    • By fewkeste 21st Apr 17, 8:58 PM
    • 111 Posts
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    fewkeste
    • #3
    • 21st Apr 17, 8:58 PM
    • #3
    • 21st Apr 17, 8:58 PM
    Two downsides for me: one, it is a NPower franchise and, two, there seems to be implicit consent in the ts and cs for NPower to fit a smart meter.
    Originally posted by Hengus
    Thanks for your comments - I hadn't spotted that point about the smart meter in the T&Cs - I'll go and re-read the PDFs they sent me. Is that a bad thing? (a smart meter) - if so, can you expand on why that might be the case?
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 21st Apr 17, 9:25 PM
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    Hengus
    • #4
    • 21st Apr 17, 9:25 PM
    • #4
    • 21st Apr 17, 9:25 PM
    Thanks for your comments - I hadn't spotted that point about the smart meter in the T&Cs - I'll go and re-read the PDFs they sent me. Is that a bad thing? (a smart meter) - if so, can you expand on why that might be the case?
    Originally posted by fewkeste
    My mistake. A smart meter is not mandatory but they reserve the right to ask you to change your metering arrangements at your expense and they talk, in Clause 18, about the offer of a smart meter in the future. Unless you have one fitted, then I cannot see how the App will provide any meaningful information on your consumption unless you provide the supplier with daily meter readings.

    Hidden under the well-populated consumption graph:

    The illustration above is based on daily meter reads being uploaded into the app.

    There are pages on this forum about smart meters.
    Last edited by Hengus; 21-04-2017 at 9:37 PM.
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 21st Apr 17, 10:42 PM
    • 3,040 Posts
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    matelodave
    • #5
    • 21st Apr 17, 10:42 PM
    • #5
    • 21st Apr 17, 10:42 PM
    Please, please dont start the Smart Metering stuff all over again.

    There are reams of it on the forum - it's worse than politics or religion when someone fires it into a thread just to see what happens
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 22nd Apr 17, 1:27 PM
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    Hengus
    • #6
    • 22nd Apr 17, 1:27 PM
    • #6
    • 22nd Apr 17, 1:27 PM
    This thread piqued my interest. If Powershop UK intends to follow the Powershop NZ model, it would seem that some long-standing customers are starting to have reservations about the lack of price detail.

    https://en-gb.facebook.com/pg/powershop/reviews/
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 22nd Apr 17, 11:01 PM
    • 2,469 Posts
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    EachPenny
    • #7
    • 22nd Apr 17, 11:01 PM
    • #7
    • 22nd Apr 17, 11:01 PM
    I was trying to understand the Powershop model earlier in responding to fewkeste's post on the smart meter thread.

    At first sight it looks like it is based on something like spot price/forward price buying, but digging deeper it feels more like the equivalent of buying a bundle on a payg mobile. You pay 'x' for this quantity of power. If you haven't purchased enough in advance you fall back onto the (probably higher) standard charges.

    In which case, I don't understand how day-by-day or even week-by-week consumption monitoring is relevant, other than predicting when you next need to purchase a 'bundle' by in order to avoid going onto the standard charges. The website suggests if you don't do meter readings yourself they will do them quarterly - which means a daily consumption figure becomes fairly meaningless.

    Now what would be interesting is if you could buy your power on a true hour-by-hour basis - maybe delay cooking dinner until 9 tonight because the Eastenders 'whodunnit' finishes at 8 and everybody else will be busy cooking and making cups of tea between 8 and 9. Or perhaps leaving the washing until tomorrow because today is extra cold and energy prices have peaked. I suspect this would be a niche market though as most people wouldn't have the time or flexibility to plan their energy consumption to buy at the low points. Far easier to let the energy companies worry about that and for the consumer to just shop around for the best average price.

    I will keep an eye on Powershop though and see how it develops.
    • KGriff
    • By KGriff 22nd Apr 17, 11:47 PM
    • 185 Posts
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    KGriff
    • #8
    • 22nd Apr 17, 11:47 PM
    • #8
    • 22nd Apr 17, 11:47 PM
    I have just decided to give powershop a try as I find the concept quite interesting ... buying energy bundle 'offers' in advance... not least, as I prefer to be a small amount in credit with any energy company, because no matter what, in the end, any debt needs to be settled with the supplier eventually anyway.

    The only thing I'm not sure of, is how good the powershop discount bundles will eventually prove to be, or if I can choose to buy lots of 'advance' kilowatt hours at an offer price stated, or if the amount of kWh are restricted to a certain amount.

    I would even be happy to buy a years worth of electric, in advance, if the discount offer price was right... but I doubt that will be allowed... but I'm really interested to see the types of bundles and how much I may save/lose over the period of 1 year.

    I quite fancy the interaction too, via the powershop app, as it may encourage me to use less energy and to 'go green' which has to be a good thing, providing the advanced bundle prices prove worthwhile and attractive. I'm expecting some decent offers as the service is new to the UK and hopefully their aim will be to attract new customers with some shared talk about the discounted bundles.

    I'm looking forward to the powershop experience. I hope I can stay the course and save during the forthcoming year.

    As they say 'watch this space' and let's see what happens.
    Last edited by KGriff; 22-04-2017 at 11:50 PM.
    • fewkeste
    • By fewkeste 23rd Apr 17, 5:13 PM
    • 111 Posts
    • 98 Thanks
    fewkeste
    • #9
    • 23rd Apr 17, 5:13 PM
    Powershop info
    • #9
    • 23rd Apr 17, 5:13 PM
    At first sight it looks like it is based on something like spot price/forward price buying, but digging deeper it feels more like the equivalent of buying a bundle on a payg mobile. You pay 'x' for this quantity of power. If you haven't purchased enough in advance you fall back onto the (probably higher) standard charges.

    In which case, I don't understand how day-by-day or even week-by-week consumption monitoring is relevant, other than predicting when you next need to purchase a 'bundle' by in order to avoid going onto the standard charges. The website suggests if you don't do meter readings yourself they will do them quarterly - which means a daily consumption figure becomes fairly meaningless.
    Originally posted by EachPenny
    I found this on their website

    There are three different types of Powerpack:
    • Top Up Packs give you power to use immediately. These are tailored to your energy use and are always there for you to use as little or as often as you’d like.
    • Future Packs are full of power to use later, allowing you to budget ahead and spread the cost. If you’ve got a bit of cash now you can buy a pack for say 3 months’ time. You’ll get peace of mind, whilst saving yourself some money.
    • Special Packs offer you extra discounts off our standard prices. They’re surprising little special offers that we send through every now and again to put a smile on your face and a quid or two in your pocket.

    I think they need a more detailed view of energy usage so they can tailor the Powerpack offers to an individual's consumption.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 23rd Apr 17, 6:36 PM
    • 2,469 Posts
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    EachPenny
    I think they need a more detailed view of energy usage so they can tailor the Powerpack offers to an individual's consumption.
    Originally posted by fewkeste
    I might be wrong, but I think you're being a tad optimistic to think they will tailor offers to individuals in that way. More likely they will provide offers according to what they predict the market will do in the future.

    • Top Up Packs
    • Future Packs are full of power to use later, allowing you to budget ahead and spread the cost. If you’ve got a bit of cash now you can buy a pack for say 3 months’ time.
    Originally posted by fewkeste
    What wasn't clear to me is if there are expiry dates on packs. The 'Future Pack' blurb suggests to me that if you buy a pack for 3 month's time you cannot use it until then. If they have a 'cannot use before' date then I'd be wary of them having a 'must use by' date too.

    That may make it difficult to benefit by buying a whole year's energy in advance at a low price point - I suspect the 'tailoring' of packs is to make sure you are only buying a month or two of usage to prevent customers from buying only when the packages are cheaper. But I might be wrong about that.

    It reminds me of when VAT was introduced on domestic fuel and people were able to buy gas and electric in advance to avoid paying the VAT later. However, helping customers beat VAT was one thing, if companies allow customers to buy in bulk just before a big price increase (given that increases these days tend to be double digit) then they are going to have to put some kind of limit on advance purchase otherwise they will rapidly go out of business.

    Hopefully when your account is up and running you'll be able to give us some feedback on how it works
    Last edited by EachPenny; 23-04-2017 at 6:37 PM. Reason: Typo
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 23rd Apr 17, 6:48 PM
    • 4,386 Posts
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    Hengus
    As I posted above, this is what would worry me if Powershop UK intends to follow the NZ/AU model:

    Boooooooo! As per the other reviews. Powershop used to be great but the changes made to the app have ruined it. It's a very deceitful way of selling power when the unit price isn't displayed and we instead get "approximate $ per day" that's less accurate than the actual unit price! Especially for us seeing as our smart (dumb) meter doesn't get a signal and I have to manually enter our meter readings my $per day figures are not accurate! We will be looking at switching providers if this isn't resolved. It's such an untrustworthy way of selling it's like walking into the supermarket and seeing Banana's with a special sign saying "$0.50 cents a day"

    Source: Facebook NZ

    It also seems like a lot of work for no real saving compared to other deals on the market.
    • fewkeste
    • By fewkeste 23rd Apr 17, 7:32 PM
    • 111 Posts
    • 98 Thanks
    fewkeste
    I might be wrong, but I think you're being a tad optimistic to think they will tailor offers to individuals in that way. More likely they will provide offers according to what they predict the market will do in the future.
    Originally posted by EachPenny
    I was told they (Powershop) tailor offers based on knowing your annual consumption. When I mentioned my current supplier (Robin Hood Energy) had overestimated my annual consumption by about 2000 kWh (I use 8000 kWh/yr, RHE wrongly say 10,000 kWh/yr) I was advised by Powershop CS to leave the error in place as I would then be offered better deals (the chance to pre-buy more energy at a cheaper rate) than if I forced RHE to correct my erroneous annual consumption figure that they will eventually forward to Powershop as part of the switch protocol.

    If they have a 'cannot use before' date then I'd be wary of them having a 'must use by' date too.
    Originally posted by EachPenny
    Yes this was something I wondered/worried about. You wouldn't want to buy so much credit for use say in June then find you haven't actually used it all in June and so what happens to the rest? Does it go towards your account credit or do you lose it? I will know more when my account goes live (hopefully in a few days)
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 23rd Apr 17, 11:48 PM
    • 2,469 Posts
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    EachPenny
    I was advised by Powershop CS to leave the error in place as I would then be offered better deals (the chance to pre-buy more energy at a cheaper rate)
    Originally posted by fewkeste
    Did you get this in writing, as it might be something you want to quote back to them at a later date.

    Firstly, I assume that as you start using energy with them they will soon see your actual consumption is lower, and if the level of monitoring of what you use is as precise as suggested then they will know the packs you need are much smaller fairly rapidly.

    Secondly, if the packs are time-limited then you need them to be reasonably matched to your actual consumption. If the pack for say June is 25% (reflecting the higher RHE figure) more than you will actually use then you'll finish the month with spare energy. If that rolls over into the next month then fine, but if it is time limited then you may be paying the equivalent of a 25% surcharge.

    You wouldn't want to buy so much credit for use say in June then find you haven't actually used it all in June and so what happens to the rest? Does it go towards your account credit or do you lose it?
    Originally posted by fewkeste
    The million-dollar question! Logic says that the packs have to be time-limited, otherwise how will Powershop ever make any money. In a similar way to how payg bundles work, at midnight on the last day of the month the remaining unused texts/minutes/Mbs vapourise and you start afresh. If that were applied to your energy use you could be looking at a substantial amount of money vanishing... they wouldn't do that, would they?

    Another consideration is what happens at the end of your contract - with normal switching any credit with the old supplier is refunded. I wonder whether Powershop will treat packs in the same way? I.e. if you have any unused energy in a pack whether that will be refunded, or if they are non-refundable? Another bit of smallprint to read!
    Last edited by EachPenny; 23-04-2017 at 11:51 PM. Reason: Typo
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • fewkeste
    • By fewkeste 24th Apr 17, 12:37 AM
    • 111 Posts
    • 98 Thanks
    fewkeste
    To me this seems like a bizarre way of buying POWERCARDS (a £5 card you could buy in the SSEB/SCOTTISHPOWER region.)

    I have looked it up and my brain totallly drained.


    SHUT THEM DOWN.

    We are trying to get away from paying for energy supply in cards/packs/keys.(fuel poverty)

    Away you go back to New Zealand. Thank you and good evening.
    Originally posted by MCGONIS
    I think you misunderstand - TBH it took me a while to get my head around it. When you buy 'Powerpacks' the money is taken by Direct Debit from your bank. I chose them because they are so cheap. For me in the East Midlands the 'do nothing and not take advantage of buying discounted power in packs price' is Day 15.026 p/kWh, E7 8.442 p/kWh, Daily charge 15.761p. However, if I take advantage of all the discounted powerpacks then over the year I will effectively pay Day 11.739 p/kWh, E7 6.594 p/kWh, Daily charge is the same I think at 15.761p. This in nowhere near credit meter charges - it is the cheapest in the whole market! - unless you know differently of course Put those figures in your spreadsheet and see what your annual total is.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 24th Apr 17, 1:06 AM
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    EachPenny
    Put those figures in your spreadsheet and see what your annual total is.
    Originally posted by fewkeste
    I just have, comes to more than I pay with Ebico
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 24th Apr 17, 8:40 AM
    • 4,386 Posts
    • 2,581 Thanks
    Hengus
    I think you misunderstand - TBH it took me a while to get my head around it. When you buy 'Powerpacks' the money is taken by Direct Debit from your bank. I chose them because they are so cheap. For me in the East Midlands the 'do nothing and not take advantage of buying discounted power in packs price' is Day 15.026 p/kWh, E7 8.442 p/kWh, Daily charge 15.761p. However, if I take advantage of all the discounted powerpacks then over the year I will effectively pay Day 11.739 p/kWh, E7 6.594 p/kWh, Daily charge is the same I think at 15.761p. This in nowhere near credit meter charges - it is the cheapest in the whole market! - unless you know differently of course Put those figures in your spreadsheet and see what your annual total is.
    Originally posted by fewkeste
    I can only do a comparison based on my usage and postcode. Powershop for me works out at a Standard Charge of 16.601p per day/13.503 per kWh = £465.68 per year with an Easy Saver Guarantee for one year of 16.601p per day/10.808 per kWh or £384.73.

    The cheapest market deal for me would be 13.157p per day/10.2241 per kWh or £355.25 per year for no effort other than one meter reading a month.

    Please do not claim that something is the cheapest on the market when you have no way of checking. The deal may be the cheapest for your usage and for your postcode; however, if distorted estimates are being used for comparisons then I would be wary of the result.
    • Dawn248
    • By Dawn248 24th Apr 17, 11:01 AM
    • 104 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Dawn248
    Glad I saw this thread.
    Having just got my latest enormous bill from EON I had a look on compare the market and Powershop came up the cheapest. Don't have time for faffing about buying energy packs-whatever the heck that means- I have enough bother keeping up with my Now TV!
    Will keep looking then )
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 24th Apr 17, 11:46 AM
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    Hengus
    I am not sure how PCWs are going to cope with this type of offer. The CA Comparison Tool shows that if I buy all my electricity via the App/offers, that my yearly charge will be £348.73. However, the Easy Saver Guarantee, for the first year only gives a protected price of £443.63.

    The standard variable rate is I suppose just - standard and variable. So, if for example, I am 7 months into my first year with Powershop then I guess that any comparison for the next 12 months has to be based on 12- 7 months on the SVR PLUS 5 months on WHAT (the Easy Saver, the Buy on our App or the Standard Price).

    Presumably, if a customer stays past the first 12 months, then the Easy Saver protection lapses so the cost of any future energy bought via the App (less any discounts) will be based on the Standard Price (as Powershop calls it) without any price protection.

    My guess is that a person who has got the time to read the meter and make judgements about what amount of energy to buy and when, may get a competitive price. However, Mr and Mrs Average may default in the first year to the Easy Saver Promise protection which is £60 higher than the price shown (in my case) on PCWs.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 24th Apr 17, 12:10 PM
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    EachPenny
    I am not sure how PCWs are going to cope with this type of offer.
    Originally posted by Hengus
    That, in a nutshell, is my concern about the conflict in the Government/Ofgem approach to energy and the consumer.

    On the one hand spend billions on rolling out smart meters which, apart from spin, only really benefit consumers if they are used to implement 'smart' tariffs with pricing reflecting generation/transmission costs at the actual time of usage. Consumers get to decide whether to pay extra for convenience of using energy when they want to, or else save by adjusting their consumption around the cheaper times.

    On the other hand, Government/Ofgem say the answer to consumers paying over the odds is to make everything simpler - fewer tariffs, compulsory standing charges, capping etc.

    The kind of tariffs which would genuinely benefit consumers aren't compatible with the overly simplified price comparison models which are deemed necessary for the average consumer to understand and use.

    My reaction to yesterday's announcement of a SVT price cap when the Conservatives win the election was simple: "How much more is it going to cost me this time?"
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 24th Apr 17, 12:29 PM
    • 4,386 Posts
    • 2,581 Thanks
    Hengus
    That, in a nutshell, is my concern about the conflict in the Government/Ofgem approach to energy and the consumer.

    On the one hand spend billions on rolling out smart meters which, apart from spin, only really benefit consumers if they are used to implement 'smart' tariffs with pricing reflecting generation/transmission costs at the actual time of usage. Consumers get to decide whether to pay extra for convenience of using energy when they want to, or else save by adjusting their consumption around the cheaper times.

    On the other hand, Government/Ofgem say the answer to consumers paying over the odds is to make everything simpler - fewer tariffs, compulsory standing charges, capping etc.

    The kind of tariffs which would genuinely benefit consumers aren't compatible with the overly simplified price comparison models which are deemed necessary for the average consumer to understand and use.

    My reaction to yesterday's announcement of a SVT price cap when the Conservatives win the election was simple: "How much more is it going to cost me this time?"
    Originally posted by EachPenny
    I very much agree with your last point.

    Thinking about the Powershop issue a bit more, the 'fair' way of listing them on a PCW would be to use the EasySaver Protection Price which, provided the consumer only uses the projected amount of annual consumption, is a guaranteed maximum price. This would compare like with like.

    In my case, for 3000kWhs, this would be £443.63. I have absolutely no idea if the comparison price of £384.73 (based on App purchases) is even possible.
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