PayPal refund - international INR claim

33333 · 17 October 2017 at 10:10PM

In response to the following question in an older thread (2011) :

What happens when you reject an international parcel due to unexpected customs charge 7th Jan 11 at 8:10 PM

Soolin posted at the time:

The only thing that matters to paypal is whether the seller can prove delivery, if you reject an item and the tracking never shows it having been delivered then paypal will refund you in full if you do an INR claim.

Does anyone know if the above is still applicable i.e. if an international parcel is returned to the sender because it remains "not claimed", if PP will refund in full based on an INR claim?

Many thanks!

soolin · 17 October 2017 at 10:22PM

I'm struggling to find the details in the eBay help pages but I am sure that there is seller protection now if an international buyer refuses a parcel based on customs charges.

As usual searching eBay help pages just returns a whole load of nonsensical answers that have nothing to do with the question.

I assume though that this was not a GSP sale.

soolin · 17 October 2017 at 10:29PM

Nope still can't find anything but this thread is interesting

http://www.ecommercebytes.com/C/letters/blog.pl?/pl/2013/5/1369788511.html

theonlywayisup · 18 October 2017 at 6:53AM

It does seem they are now viewing cases on an individual basis.

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/seller-protection-faq.html#What%20if%20the%20item%20is%20stuck%20in%20customs%20because%20the%20buyer%20won't%20pay%20the%20import%20fees?

What if the item is stuck in customs because the buyer won't pay the import fees?
Cross-border trade disputes will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis using all available transaction information. We will not accept cases filed by international buyers where the sole complaint is high customs duties. Sellers who sell internationally can also facilitate reviews of their cases they receive by specifying in their item description that international buyers are responsible for any customs, duties, etc. imposed by the buyer's home country.

What if the item returned by the buyer is stuck in customs because the buyer won't pay the customs fees?
You will be responsible for any customs fees incurred on the returned item. You should find that customs authorities will waive fees for returned items.

What is your scenario?

soolin · 18 October 2017 at 8:46AM

theonlywayisup wrote: »

It does seem they are now viewing cases on an individual basis.

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/seller-protection-faq.html#What%20if%20the%20item%20is%20stuck%20in%20customs%20because%20the%20buyer%20won't%20pay%20the%20import%20fees?

What is your scenario?

Thank you theonlywayisup, I knew it was there somewhere as I have added the line about tax and duty to all my items where I ship overseas for this very scenario.

I'd also like to know if OP is the buyer or seller as advice can be better tailored if we know.

33333 · 18 October 2017 at 1:23PM

This scenario is an entirely different one - someone send something privately (which they could have as well labelled as a gift) and payment was through PP. Meanwhile having received a copy of the shipping document it turns out they excessively overinflated the value on the customs declaration and in any event the charges stated in the notification letter (haven't received the parcel yet as long as charges aren't paid) don't tally with the value as far as I'm aware of (Import VAT should be 20% on item value only or combined item value + shipping?). In any event the figures don't stack up correctly and if they had labelled it as a gift it should not have attracted VAT at all. The courier suggested HMRC may be able to waive this, though HMRC claimed they can't as somehow they can't access the customs declaration from the courier electronically so the only options seem to be to reject it or pay and subsequently submit a refund claim to HMRC which might be a bit of a gamble as long as I don't know what was put down on the shipping declaration. HMRC's CS stated the shipping declarations should be accessible electronically - can they be accessed through e.g. tracking number on the couriers or a central website or can only the courier access the information?
The initial enquiry was mainly whether in case of a return PP would refund the full amount or make any deductions (e.g. for shipping)? Also at which stage would it be possible to open an INR case - the courier indicated they would use snailmail i.e. shipping to get it back which means it could take about 3-4weeks till the sender receives it back.

soolin · 18 October 2017 at 2:24PM

Hmm, I'm not sure what PayPal policies actually show, I'll see what I can find.

As for the value, if it was a gift then I assume it was from someone you know so can you ask them what they declared?

glentoran99 · 18 October 2017 at 3:36PM

33333 wrote: »

This scenario is an entirely different one - someone send something privately (which they could have as well labelled as a gift) and payment was through PP. I don't know what they put down on the customs declaration and in any event the charges stated in the notification letter (haven't received the parcel yet as long as charges aren't paid) don't tally with the value as far as I'm aware of (Import VAT should be 20% on item value only or combined item value + shipping?). In any event the figures don't stack up correctly and if they had labelled it as a gift it should not have attracted VAT at all. The courier suggested HMRC may be able to waive this, though HMRC claimed they can't as somehow they can't access the customs declaration from the courier electronically so the only options seem to be to reject it or pay and subsequently submit a refund claim to HMRC which might be a bit of a gamble as long as I don't know what was put down on the shipping declaration. HMRC's CS stated the shipping declarations should be accessible electronically - can they be accessed through e.g. tracking number on the couriers or a central website or can only the courier access the information?
The initial enquiry was mainly whether in case of a return PP would refund the full amount or make any deductions (e.g. for shipping)? Also at which stage would it be possible to open an INR case - the courier indicated they would use snailmail i.e. shipping to get it back which means it could take about 3-4weeks till the sender receives it back.

If payment was through paypal then it wasnt a gift, HMRC aren't daft and they catch this tax evasion a lot

soolin · 18 October 2017 at 3:48PM

glentoran99 wrote: »

If payment was through paypal then it wasnt a gift, HMRC aren't daft and they catch this tax evasion a lot

Actually good point, people tend not to pay for a gift, I'd overlooked that.

verybigchris · 18 October 2017 at 4:27PM

When looking at the charges did you include the processing fee levied by the courier? This is typically about £8, even if the other charges are pennies.

Also, as above, if you've paid for it then it's not a gift. HMRC seem to turn a blind eye to it (Chinese people are very generous as they're always sending me parcels with "gift" on the outside!) but asking for a refund on a purchase is pushing your luck a bit.

33333 · 19 October 2017 at 3:24AM

You can still reimburse your relatives for example for something they send you but that doesn't make it a commercial transaction, does it...? And in particular if the payment only covers part of the full value of the parcel. Usually it would only be classified as a commercial transaction if for instance an element of profit or regularity was involved - neither of which applies.
Meanwhile a copy of the shipping document has been received from the sender and it turned out for whatever reason they stated the value excessively high (seems they misunderstood the different entries in the document).
Hence coming back to the original question - if returning the item and submitting an INR, would PP refund the original payment in full based on the tracking information?

PayPal refund - international INR claim

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