IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including QR codes, number plates and reference numbers.

ParkingEye - pay discount? advice please

RayBoy1528
RayBoy1528 Posts: 16
First Anniversary
Forumite
Hi, new to forum, will try to be brief and accurate.

Driver parked at a private car park monitored by ParkingEye on 24th April. They knew it was pay and display but at the time could not see any pay machines. The signs near the car had 'pay by phone' instructions.
So the driver first tried the phone number from the sign, after a lengthy automated call it transpired they couldn't use that service as an account first had to be created and a card registered. So using the website from the signs, the driver sat in car and setup an account online on mobile phone. The process was time consuming and ridiculous (what if a driver has no internet?).
Eventually a parking fee was paid for 2 hours.

About 10 days later I receive the PCN from ParkingEye as the registered keeper of the car, which included entry/exit photos. Unknown to the driver, it turned out the parking timer starts upon entry to the car park and not from the moment payment is made as assumed.

Now.... I have read the newbies sticky along with a number of similar ParkingEye posts but I need a little advice.

The PCN is the less fortunate type which DOES include the paragraph on POFA 2012 and registered keeper etc.
I've followed the advice, appealed to ParkingEye first (as the registered keeper, not declaring who was driving) and received my POPLA reference with their rejection letter and an extension on the 'discounted' parking charge.

However, I'm now considering just paying the £60 rather than risk rejection appealing to POPLA and paying £100. Originally, I refused to pay as I thought it unfair they started the timer before making the driver go through the whole 'pay by phone' method but looking closely at the times the driver did in fact still overstay by 20 minutes even when taking the payment time as the start time and not the ANPR image entry time. The driver was back at the car before the time was up but did not leave immediately.

So in fairness the driver did overstay. I don't think I really have grounds to appeal. Thoughts?

Thanks in advance
«134

Comments

  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,199
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    Forumite
    Just follow the advice in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3, using the templates provided in it and put together a lengthy appeal and 9 times out of 10 PE will withdraw the charge.

    Also do some searches using 'ParkingEye POPLA' and see what works.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    Forumite
    as you paid for parking clause #13 of the BPA CoP covers the before and after times (have you read it ?)

    so say up to 10 minutes to read and comply with the signage and OVER 10 minutes to exit the car park , so you are just within any GRACE PERIODS

    paid for parking time is not the same as time on site , PE monitor time on site , not parking time

    so I would appeal to POPLA with the usual legal arguments and start with GRACE PERIODS, as one of the several legal arguments

    post #3 of the NEWBIES sticky thread will help you draft a popla appeal

    did you appeal as KEEPER or as DRIVER ?

    if the latter, POFA2012 does not apply anyway
  • RayBoy1528
    RayBoy1528 Posts: 16
    First Anniversary
    Forumite
    Thanks Redx. I appealed as KEEPER.

    I havn't read clause 13 but will do.

    So you think I still have a good chance of a successful appeal? I received my rejection from PE on 22nd May. I haven't started a POPLA appeal yet. If I draft one and post on here can it be given a once over by the good people on here?

    Thanks
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 58,110
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Anniversary First Post
    Forumite
    RayBoy1528 wrote: »
    Thanks Redx. I appealed as KEEPER.

    I havn't read clause 13 but will do.

    So you think I still have a good chance of a successful appeal? I received my rejection from PE on 22nd May. I haven't started a POPLA appeal yet. If I draft one and post on here can it be given a once over by the good people on here?

    Thanks

    Yes by all means. It's actually what the regulars here always recommend.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    Forumite
    edited 26 May 2017 at 3:11PM
    the driver paid , the 2 grace periods are covered in the BPA CoP , under clause #13

    there will be other legal points that you will make , such as no owner authority etc, but the prime reason will be the BPA CoP because PE took your money (so you did not try bilking)

    you dont pay for entry to exit, so I believe you have a strong case, both at POPLA and before a judge , based on clause #13

    ivor pecheque won a court case based on similar principles at fistral beach car park , please search for it and read it

    it is your lack of research that is clouding your good sense here

    how can you make a decision if you have not read the rules (ie; the BPA CoP ???)

    and yes, post a draft on here, minus any personal details or references etc
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 58,110
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Anniversary First Post
    Forumite
    RayBoy1528 wrote: »
    Thanks Redx. I appealed as KEEPER.

    I havn't read clause 13 but will do.

    So you think I still have a good chance of a successful appeal? I received my rejection from PE on 22nd May. I haven't started a POPLA appeal yet. If I draft one and post on here can it be given a once over by the good people on here?

    Thanks

    But revealed the driver's identity in your first post. You should edit that post and only refer to The Driver and The Keeper. Parking scammers monitor these fora and have been know to produce posts in court.

    Grace periods have not been applied. Frustration of contract occurred. Signage will most likely have been inadequate. There are three appeal points to get you started at PoPLA, along with, not the landowner, and no standing to issue charges in their own name.

    Please don't pay the scammers. It just enables them to scam even more vulnerable motorists.

    Follow the tried and tested appeal process as per the NEWBIES and get the 100% MSE discount.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • RayBoy1528
    RayBoy1528 Posts: 16
    First Anniversary
    Forumite
    Hi Fruitcake/Redx, I've edited my original post to reference the driver and keeper. I have decided I'm NOT going to pay, I am going to appeal to POPLA, but I really don't want this to escalate to court.

    I've read through clause 13 of the BPA CoP. I tried finding the Ivor Pecheque fistral beach case but I don't think I found the right one, I found a few references to that case though. Is it on this forum or another?

    I will write my draft to POPLA this weekend and post it. Thanks all!
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,113
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Forumite
    You seem to be saying there was something like 20 mins before paid for time, and another 20 minutes AFTER paid-for time. That's not going to convince POPLA. That timing is over & above any grace period.

    Which car park, and have you complained to the Landowner/agent for the site? For example, we see Crown Plaza Managing Agents cancel all the time when people complain, and that's a P&D car park with PE in it. Where were you?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • RayBoy1528
    RayBoy1528 Posts: 16
    First Anniversary
    Forumite
    edited 27 May 2017 at 6:06PM
    Coupon-mad wrote: »
    You seem to be saying there was something like 20 mins before paid for time, and another 20 minutes AFTER paid-for time. That's not going to convince POPLA. That timing is over & above any grace period.

    Which car park, and have you complained to the Landowner/agent for the site? For example, we see Crown Plaza Managing Agents cancel all the time when people complain, and that's a P&D car park with PE in it. Where were you?

    The car park was Adelphi Hotel in Liverpool. I didn't try complaining to the Adelphi as I've read a lot of posts saying not to bother because the Adelphi have never had any PCN cancelled.

    The time from entry to exit was 2 hours 31 minutes. It was 12 minutes before paying. The time from parking ticket expiring and exiting the car park was 19 minutes.

    So is the 19 minutes out of the scope of the grace period for leaving the car park?
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,199
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    Forumite
    I didn't try complaining to the Adelphi as I've read a lot of posts saying not to bother
    Don't ask, don't get. You can't lose anything by asking.
    So is the 19 minutes out of the scope of the grace period for leaving the car park?
    Grace period at the end of paid parking time is a minimum of 10 minutes. It could include a 19 minutes overstay, but you're going to have to have a very good story to convince POPLA.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 342.2K Banking & Borrowing
  • 249.8K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.3K Spending & Discounts
  • 234.4K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 606.7K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 172.7K Life & Family
  • 247.2K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.8K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards