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ParkingEye - pay discount? advice please

13

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  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,105
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    The arrival time is recorded on the PCN as 18:36:55 and Departure Time: 21:08:48 which equates to 2 hours 31 minutes and does NOT [STRIKE]include[/STRIKE] allow for the time that it took the driver to find a space, park, read the signs, create an online account and purchase a ticket using the ‘Pay By Phone’ system.

    Suggested change above, because 2hrs 31 mins does *include* that time.
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  • RayBoy1528
    RayBoy1528 Posts: 16
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    Coupon-mad wrote: »
    Suggested change above, because 2hrs 31 mins does *include* that time.

    Thanks c-m, I've updated my letter with this change.

    The only thing I'm not sure on before I send this off to POPLA is whether or not to attach a copy of the parking ticket. Will I shoot myself in the foot by giving POPLA the evidence that I overstayed 20 minutes after my parking time expired? Am I better off embedding a screenshot of my bank statement which shows payment coming out to ParkingEye but no times?
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,198
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    Only show POPLA that which benefits you.

    Remember, it is for PE to prove their case.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • RayBoy1528
    RayBoy1528 Posts: 16
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    Submitted my appeal to POPLA this morning...so now I wait.

    Thanks for all the advice so far :)

    How long does it usually take to receive PE evidence pack?
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,198
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    RayBoy1528 wrote: »
    Submitted my appeal to POPLA this morning...so now I wait.

    Thanks for all the advice so far :)

    How long does it usually take to receive PE evidence pack?

    From submission of your POPLA appeal to having a decision takes around 4 - 6 weeks. Once you receive the PE evidence pack you have 7 days to respond, once your response is submitted, the POPLA decision comes pretty quickly.

    PE will send a mahoosive evidence pack to you - so be prepared for that, and as it's page upon page upon page of mostly template stuff it could come relatively quickly (but I don't have knowledge of a pattern to say you can expect this in x days/weeks).

    You may not even get an evidence pack, this is where, having seen your appeal, PE throw their cards in and concede. You then get a swift email from POPLA to confirm cancellation.

    So each day that goes by with no evidence pack is a good one - but don't be surprised if 2 postmen turn up to carry one into your house! :rotfl:
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • RayBoy1528
    RayBoy1528 Posts: 16
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    POPLA notified me yesterday that PE had submitted their evidence pack, which I could view online. PE have not sent their evidence directly to me, nor notified me that they have sent it to POPLA, is this breaking BPA code?

    There is a signed statement on the first page of the evidence pack saying :
    "I confirm that the Appellant has been sent copies of all evidence in accordance with current POPLA requirements".
    I've been sent nothing from them, so I will raise this in my response to POPLA.

    From my first comb through their evidence pack, the two big things that jump out:

    1. Landowner Authority
    Despite requesting an un-redacted copy of the contract in my POPLA appeal, PE have not included any evidence of landowner authority, neither contract nor witness statement.

    Landowner authority is only addressed with this paragraph:

    "Authority
    ParkingEye can confirm that the above site is on private land, is not council owned and that we have written authority to operate and issue Parking Charge Notices at this site from the landowner (or landowner’s agent)."

    No evidence included to back this up. I see this as a win.


    2. Signage
    Numerous photos of the signs as seen from ground level at the site and also isolated samples included. In all examples the terms cannot be read on the signs. The font is so small even zooming in on the high quality isolated image renders the wording unreadable. So I cannot even read the terms on my computer screen let alone from ground level with the sign mounted high up on a lamp post.


    So far I'm hopeful my appeal will be successful :)
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,198
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    POPLA notified me yesterday that PE had submitted their evidence pack, which I could view online. PE have not sent their evidence directly to me, nor notified me that they have sent it to POPLA, is this breaking BPA code?

    There is a signed statement on the first page of the evidence pack saying :
    "I confirm that the Appellant has been sent copies of all evidence in accordance with current POPLA requirements".
    I've been sent nothing from them, so I will raise this in my response to POPLA.
    Recently changed procedure as some PPCs were saying they'd sent evidence packs and hadn't. Others were sending slightly different packs to the ones submitted to POPLA.

    So POPLA have now made online access available for motorists to see exactly the same as they have received. So not a point for you to argue in your rebuttal.

    You can be grateful PE didn't actually post their pack to you - often it can run to over 100 pages.

    Keep combing through what you have and dispute any and every point that is wrong, inaccurate or that you disagree with - you seem to have made a good start.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,105
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    PE have not sent their evidence directly to me, nor notified me that they have sent it to POPLA, is this breaking BPA code?

    Nope, as Umkomaas says, POPLA changed their procedure. It seems that POPLA haven't changed the wording on the standard evidence cover sheet, so that's actually POPLA's own fault.
    1. Landowner Authority
    Despite requesting an un-redacted copy of the contract in my POPLA appeal, PE have not included any evidence of landowner authority, neither contract nor witness statement.

    Landowner authority is only addressed with this paragraph:

    "Authority
    ParkingEye can confirm that the above site is on private land, is not council owned and that we have written authority to operate and issue Parking Charge Notices at this site from the landowner (or landowner’s agent)."

    No evidence included to back this up. I see this as a win.

    You will win, then. :)
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • RayBoy1528
    RayBoy1528 Posts: 16
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    This is what I have for my rebuttal of PE evidence pack. I have tried to keep this concise and to the point. Please let me know if this is too long, or if I need to add more weight.


    Rebuttal to evidence submitted by ParkingEye to POPLA

    Ref. POPLA appeal: XXXX
    PCN Number: XXXX
    Date evidence pack received: 14/06/2017

    Dear POPLA Assessor,

    In response to the 39 page evidence pack submitted by ParkingEye, I provide the following rebuttal points in the order they have been laid out in the evidence pack:

    1. Authority

    No evidence of landowner authority has been provided to show that ParkingEye are abiding by the BPA Code of Practice.

    ParkingEye were put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code in the original POPLA appeal. Quoting page 5 Section B of the evidence pack:

    “Authority
    ParkingEye can confirm that the above site is on private land, is not council owned and that we have written authority to operate and issue Parking Charge Notices at this site from the landowner (or landowner’s agent).”

    Whilst ParkingEye have made this statement, they have provided no single piece of evidence to back up this claim. By failing to provide an unredacted copy of the contract with the landowner, ParkingEye have failed to show that they are in full compliance with section 7 of the BPA Code of Practice.


    2. Grace Period

    In rebuttal to the claim made by ParkingEye on page 5 Section B that:

    “There is a sufficient grace period in place at this site which is fully compliant with the BPA code of practice. All grace periods in place are a minimum of 10 minutes or more in line with the BPA Code of Practice”

    I submit that ParkingEye have failed to comply with the BPA Code of Practice, despite claiming otherwise. I refer back to the point made in my original POPLA appeal:

    “ParkingEye are using ANPR technology to calculate the duration of stay from recorded entry and exit times. This duration of stay is in fact ‘time on site’ and not time ‘parked’. By issuing this PCN based on the entry/exit times, ParkingEye have failed to apply the minimum grace period both before and after the parking event and so have breached section 13 of the BPA CoP.”

    It is clear from the “In” and “Out” times specified on page 11 of the evidence pack, extracted from ParkingEye’s own ANPR entry/exit photos, that they are calculating the length of stay based solely on these two times. By taking the difference between these two times and comparing this directly to the time paid for, no consideration of the grace period has been applied in the calculation.


    3. Signage

    The evidence pack claims a total of 18 signs throughout the site. Of these 18, only 1 (type 1b) states payment can be made at machine or by phone, reference page 27. This single sign is only seen on one side of the car park only, referencing the signage plan on page 28. However, the photos provided by ParkingEye call into question the existence of this sign.

    It is claimed on page 6 of Section B:

    “The signage at this site demonstrates adequate colour contrast between the text and the backgrounds advised in the BPA Code of Practice, you will note the colour contrast at this site is black text on white background.”

    This statement is contradicted by the ‘black on yellow’ signs clearly seen in the background of the photo on page 24 Section F, the only photo of type 1b sign on the site. As the evidence pack claims all signs on this site are ‘black on white’ and this is backed up by the close up samples provided, the legitimacy that the photo on page 24 is actually of a sign on this site is called into question.

    In addition, the location of the type 1b sign in the photo on page 24 does not match its location on the signage plan, page 28. In the photo supposedly taken on the site, the sign is next to the pay machine however the two are observably at some distance from each other according to the signage plan. Clearly the evidence is not consistent.

    Furthermore, the terms and conditions are in such a small font that the wording is unreadable even when zooming in on the close up photo on page 31, let alone from ground level in low lighting. It simply would not be possible to read any terms on the sign without leaving the vehicle, which is in direct violation of section 28.8 of the BPA Code of Practice.

    Once again, I request that my appeal is upheld,

    Yours faithfully,
    XXX
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,105
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    Looks fine. You will have to email that as it won't fit on the Portal.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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