£100 per month where to put it?

Hi all bit of a simple question but a real genuine one. i am 35 and already have a pension which i can start receiving when i am 55. From what i am told i will get in around £8000 a year from that. plus a lump sum of £30000. but i think i would still like to put away £100 a month which i can use when i retire either to give me another lump sum or to use to get income from.

question is where to put it. i have looked at a number of options like isa, s&s isa, but are there other options available that i might be missing. many thanks
Norn Iron Club No:468
Converted serious saver:D
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  • eskbanker
    eskbanker Posts: 30,979 Forumite
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    Have you considered additional voluntary contributions to your pension?
  • bowlhead99
    bowlhead99 Posts: 12,295 Forumite
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    edited 20 October 2014 at 8:34AM
    Cash ISA is not going to get you a return that beats inflation over the 20 years until you draw your employer's pension or the 30+ years til you can take the state pension. This month's £100 plus savings interest won't go very far in the year 2034 or 2050 or 2070.

    So your practical options are S&S ISA or pension. Private pensions can hold the exact same investment options as S&S ISAs.

    With a pension there is an additional tax break but the downside is you can't touch it for the next 20+years. If you are going to retire at 55 and wait a long time for state pension to kick in while you're only earning 8000 a year, you are 'wasting' some of your nil rate band every year (i.e. people can earn a few thousand over 8000 before paying tax). So getting tax relief now in a pension to deliver a small taxed income in retirement is a pretty good wheeze when the tax rate on your small taxed income in retirement is only nil percent. So, extra pension contributions are quite efficient.

    Depending on your scheme at work, it might be possible to buy 'extra years worth' of company pension or to simply make additional contributions that grow as a separate pot on the side. Or contribute to a completely separate private personal pension.

    S&S ISA will be less tax efficient because you don't get tax relief now (i.e. you make the investments out of income that's already been taxed). However, you never pay any tax in the future when you take income or capital out to spend, whereas on a pension you get tax relief now and a 25% tax free lump sum and pay tax on the other 75%.

    Some people would hedge their bets and do a bit in S&S ISA (giving flexibility to spend it before they're 55, and to have a tax free income once they become a taxpayer after they're getting state pension and employer pension in their 60s) AND some extra pension contribution to get tax relief now and deliver an income between 55 and 65 that technically gets taxed but in practice will fit into the nil rate band while you're a low earner.

    So, you might like to consider splitting the £100pm and doing most of it into pension (to draw out while waiting for state pension to kick in) and then a bit in S&S ISA too, which can be accessed in the shorter term if you need it or else left to give you a small tax free income when everything else is getting taxed in your 70s.

    The other 'tax efficient' investment schemes like VCTs are not suitable for £100pm so you are pretty much just looking at the options outlined above.
  • wazza24
    wazza24 Posts: 229 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    thank you both for the replies.
    eskbanker wrote: »
    Have you considered additional voluntary contributions to your pension?

    yeah have thought about that but to be honest i have had the conditions of my pension changed twice in the last 10 years, each time with higher contributions and less at the end, so i dont trust them not to change it again. worried it might be pointless.

    Bowlhead99 would a 3% isa not be inflation beating? i know i cant guarentee that inflation will be 2% every year but over a 20 to 30 year period if i tried to get an interest rate that was higher than inflation would that not be fine. excuess my ignorance if im missing sumthing....:( by the way i do intend to work untill im at least 65 so not like i want to put the feet up at 55, lol
    Norn Iron Club No:468
    Converted serious saver:D
  • bowlhead99
    bowlhead99 Posts: 12,295 Forumite
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    Yes you are missing something. A 3% ISA when inflation is 1.5% or 2% is inflation beating, sure. When inflation is 3%+, it is inflation losing. Sometimes savings can pay a little more than inflation. In the long term they can't, because banks have no incentive to give you back any more than you gave them, if you're not going to let them take any risk with your money and earn a decent return that allows them to profit.

    At the moment, cash ISAs without a multi-year lock in are paying well under 3% and your personalised rate of inflation (not the one the government quotes, which excludes housing costs etc and presumes you're an "average" person is probably just as much as that.

    So, you can try to get an interest rate above inflation, but long term, you won't make it. Simple economics. And if you only equal inflation and don't beat it, you can't spend any of the interest earned, because you need every penny of the interest to try to preserve your capital in real terms.

    The reason your pension conditions have changed for the worse a few times is that before, the return they were trying to get for you was unrealistic. With people living longer, the amount of money being put away to give you that return needs to be much more. If you start taking £8k a year from the age of 55 to 105, maybe increasing with inflation, you need a phenomenal amount of money in the pot.So it's not surprising they have been asking for more from you and haven't been able to offer more by the end.

    Still, those "worsening" pension terms from your employer just illustrate how difficult it is to get a decent return in real terms that will last you for a decent amount of time. They are taking a whole chunk of money from you, out of your gross salary that hasn't even been taxed, AND the employer is putting a hell of a lot of their own money in too AND they are investing in a mixture of investment funds (shares and bonds) to try to deliver a better return than inflation over the long term - should be several percent a year better than cash... And still you probably don't think it's a fantastic amount of money at the end.

    So, your idea that just by putting a small amount of net pay, after tax, into a cash ISA that barely covers inflation, is somehow going to get you something meaningful at the end, is laughable really. No offence intended but when you see the returns, you will have to laugh, otherwise you'll just cry.

    With a 20-30 year timescale you must look at investment (either in S&S ISAs, or in a personal pension), if you want to turn the money into something meaningful. If you just want to keep a few thousand in cash for a rainy day, then cash savings accounts (ISA or non ISA, whatever pays the best net after tax from time to time) are perfect. But 20 years is not a "rainy day fund" type of timeline. Over that length of time, you should aim to grow your money, through INVESTMENT, not save for a rainy day, in SAVINGS.
  • wazza24
    wazza24 Posts: 229 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    bowlhead99 many thanks for the time taken to explain. With that grimm outlook, think i might just spend it now every month on something fun .....lol :) no but seriuosly many thanks :beer:
    Norn Iron Club No:468
    Converted serious saver:D
  • planteria
    planteria Posts: 5,321 Forumite
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    agree re. the above.
    for retirement/long-term savings, cash is not the answer.
    the usual advice is to contribute as much to your employer's scheme as will generate the maximum contribution from them.
    beyond that i would do something yourself: separate Pension, a S&S ISA or Regular Savings Plan..or 2 or 3 of these.
    a Pension will give you some tax relief on the way in, an ISA has very flexible access and is tax-free to access. a Regular Savings Plan requires a long-term commitment, but enables you to earn bonuses on funds not yet invested in return for doing so (with the right fund with the right society), and is tax-free on maturity.
  • JamesCR
    JamesCR Posts: 50 Forumite
    It seems like you have a lot of exposure to paper assets denominated in GBP. This would make me quite uncomfortable with the global economy on a knife edge and possible further round of QE coming down the line. If I was you, i'd look at hedging your bets a little with some precious metals. Not a massive amount as they don't pay a dividend and don't really go up or down, they just maintain purchasing power. A few thousand in gold sovereigns would be a decent idea IMO.

    Another idea would be a REIT (Real Estate Investment Trust) where you'd have a hard asset backing your cash and would earn a decent dividend income. At 5% after tax yield (very possible with a quality REIT), even if dividends weren't reinvested, in 20 years you'd have an additional income of £1200 annually and if the company know what it is doing they would have grown and either acquired more equity in their current portfolio or added more properties. Either way their profit should grow, their dividends should increase an the REIT should gain in value if it's well managed and you've picked a quality one. Of course if you pick a bad one which is poorly managed you could lose a lot.

    I'd recommend one where they have long leases, long term financing locked in at a decent rate and in a sector which is going to grow over time. The last thing you want is a REIT being on flexible interest and rate rises devasting their portfolio.

    Just a couple of ideas here, i'm sure many will disagree ;)
  • Well at just about any point in recent decades, the best place to have been saving regularly would have been a UK equity income fund ... When people want to demonstrate how far savings could have gone over periods of 10+ years, they'll tend to pick examples like Invesco Perpetual's High Income fund

    I'm very uncertain about precious metals, I'm fairly sure we're in a housing bubble, bonds are best avoided for a while, so equities (while always the best paying over the long-time, but more prone to ups and downs) seem to be where most people are looking to hedge against inflation and currency issues today

    Woodford Equity Income is, for me, the no-brainer solution for Brits saving/investing with a 5+ year horizon ... Whatever happens to the markets, you should be getting around a 4% dividend on your investment - reinvested you'll be getting a compound interest effect - 5-6% capital appreciation on top of that wouldn't be too optimistic, it's run by arguably the UK's best fund manager, invests 20% or so overseas, invests in large and small companies

    The only real threat to capital would be if you were unprepared for what equity markets do, and withdrew your money at a loss thinking you were protecting it

    With cash, loss is an insidious inevitability; with equities, it's an abstract - your money isn't really money: it's just shares ... And when markets are down, it just means you're more buying at a better price
  • edinburgher
    edinburgher Posts: 13,461 Forumite
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    A few thousand in gold sovereigns would be a decent idea IMO.

    Because gold never loses value :p
  • JamesCR
    JamesCR Posts: 50 Forumite
    Because gold never loses value :p

    I never said that. I did say it doesn't really go up or down and it doesn't. It reacts to the value of currencies. If sterling is strong, gold usually goes down, if weak, usually goes up. Like I said, it's about diversifying and hedging. It's just my opinion.

    I own most of my non residence net worth in gold and silver because I think that is the best way for the next few years. I'm not a gold bug though. There are far, far better assets in normal times. Something which provides some decent cash flow would be very nice. My situation is the reverse of the OP. Once i've saved a bit of cash, i'll be looking to diversify away from metals a bit.
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