MID and Police

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  • System
    System Posts: 178,077
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    Joe_Horner wrote: »
    Your understanding is wrong.

    If you show evidence of insurance (a certificate naming you and covering use of that car) then they have to accept that and allow you to go on your way.

    Not since the introduction of the MID due to the amount of people who would sign up for insurance, get the bit of paper then cancel.
  • Johno100
    Johno100 Posts: 5,259
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    EssexExile wrote: »
    And halfway down that story in our astute local rag (of 7 years ago)

    :rotfl:

    And you think in these cash strapped days for the police it is any different?
  • AndyMc.....
    AndyMc..... Posts: 3,248
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    Tarambor wrote: »
    Not since the introduction of the MID due to the amount of people who would sign up for insurance, get the bit of paper then cancel.

    They're still meant to accept the certificate as proof of insurance unless there's evidence to the contrary.
  • Joe_Horner
    Joe_Horner Posts: 4,895
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    rich13348 wrote: »
    This seems odd though as one can obtain a certificate of insurance by paying one months insurance and then cancel the policy. The certificate is then a worthless piece of paper and the police would be wrong to accept it at face value.

    It doesn't matter. The law's quite clear that, if you provide evidence of insurance at the roadside, then seizing the vehicle isn't allowed. It also defines the required evidence as being the certificate of insurance.

    In cases like you mention, the police action is supposed to be to allow you on your way and follow it up with the insurer if they have suspicions. If it turns out that's what you've done then you're open to fraud charges which carry much heavier penalties than an IN10!
    Tarambor wrote: »
    Not since the introduction of the MID due to the amount of people who would sign up for insurance, get the bit of paper then cancel.

    No, the law has been tested in court since the introduction of the MIB. The case in question was Pryor v Greater Manchester Police [2011] EWCA Civ 749 and the Court of Appeal's finding was this (paraphrased):

    If a valid certificate is presented then, regardless of any other evidence the police may have, seizure is unlawful and the police are liable for damages in tort.


    In Pryor the "other evidence" was a "no insurance" hit on the MID and a phone call to the insurers concerned in which the insurer's customer services stated outright that the cover wasn't valid in the circumstances (DOC cover on an otherwise uninsured car). As it later turned out they were wrong, the cover was valid, and the seizure was unlawful.
  • Car_54
    Car_54 Posts: 8,180
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    akkers wrote: »

    What I am finding and hearing from various people is that they get stopped by the police as car is being shown uninsured on MID.

    I've been driving for 50 years and have never been stopped by the police for any reason. I've never heard of any of my friends acquaintances or colleagues being stopped for having no insurance. Could you perhaps be moving in the wrong circles?
  • antrobus wrote: »
    That's certainly not what happens on Police Interceptors. Or any of those other similar programme. Cars do flash up as not insured on ANPR, drivers do insist that they are insured, and sometimes they're even right. Perhaps it's because they know they're on TV, but the boys and girls in uniform do seem to carry out some form of investigation.:)

    Yes I watch those programs as well, you generally find, yes they do have an insurance certificate, however, the insurance company has cancelled their insurance due to the fact that they not kept up the monthly payments, they are supposed to send the insurance certificate back but they don't because they think they can pull the wool over the Policeman's eyes should they get stopped, or they think they are on a trade policy, or they think that their insurance for another vehicle covers them, can't remember any episode where they have wrongfully seized a car for no insurance.
    I hate football and do wish people wouldn't keep talking about it like it's the most important thing in the world
  • motorguy
    motorguy Posts: 22,452
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    Johno100 wrote: »
    Your post is obviously tongue in cheek, but the BIB is seemingly not that far from the truth.

    http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2010/11/23/west-midlands-police-pay-out-1-3m-for-breakdown-tip-offs/

    I've no issues with that. They've a duty to clear the roads after an accident and if they have agreements in place and get referral fees that offsets the cost to of the force to the taxpayer then great.

    I might forward that on to the PSNI here in Northern Ireland. The other friday evening they quite happily let a very light two car bump sit in the outside lane of the M1, the main arterial route out of Belfast for well over an hour, causing a tailback of 7 miles, whilst they no doubt filled in paperwork on the hard shoulder...
  • Ant555
    Ant555 Posts: 1,566
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    Joe_Horner wrote: »
    What's supposed to happen is:
    • You get tugged.

    • You show certificate (still the only official evidence that's accepted at the roadside).
    • They let you on your way.

    It's been tested in court and clearly confirmed that if you show a (valid) certificate that does cover then a seizure is unlawful even if the insurance company concerned is called and mistakenly says there's no cover.

    At the roadside a valid certificate trumps the call centre wallah.

    Do you know if a pdf/electronic version of the certificate shown on your phone would be considered 'showing the certificate' or does it have to be printed?
  • Aretnap
    Aretnap Posts: 5,177
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    Ant555 wrote: »
    Do you know if a pdf/electronic version of the certificate shown on your phone would be considered 'showing the certificate' or does it have to be printed?
    Since 2010 electronic certificates have been acceptable as an alternative to printed certificates (link).

    If you're old-fashioned and/or paranoid about such things it is still worth printing off a copy to keep in the car in the event that your phone is out of battery/not working/has no signal.
  • akkers
    akkers Posts: 259
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    edited 29 March 2017 at 7:01PM
    Post edited by Forum Team

    And as for getting stopped for no insurance, you can get stopped automatically after ANPR cameras spot you. Most police cars have these cameras which are scanning every car that comes into view. And if your car shows up as uninsured its going to generate an alert and you will be stopped irrespective.

    And those claim that you can show your cover note at the road side and drive away - have you tried it. The police are very stubborn and usually only take MID/Police db as the defacto proof of insurance. Their argument is that the insurance could have been cancelled after the cover note was issued. And you cant argue with some policemen - try it.

    So, my point is that the law is there and so are procedures. But what happens in reality is usually different.
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