PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING
Hello Forumites! In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non-MoneySaving matters are not permitted per the Forum rules. While we understand that mentioning house prices may sometimes be relevant to a user's specific MoneySaving situation, we ask that you please avoid veering into broad, general debates about the market, the economy and politics, as these can unfortunately lead to abusive or hateful behaviour. Threads that are found to have derailed into wider discussions may be removed. Users who repeatedly disregard this may have their Forum account banned. Please also avoid posting personally identifiable information, including links to your own online property listing which may reveal your address. Thank you for your understanding.NHBC or Architects certificate - are these the same?
Comments
-
An architect's certificate shows only that the build has been completed to the architect's best ability to inspect the works.
Translation - I don't spend 24/7 on site. Nor am I expected to. I go, usually once a week, and walk around. I don't lift sheets of plasterboard nor do I get down and rub loose bits of mastic. As such my certificate shows that the major things appear to be in order. And I have a lot of legal words that limit my statement to that effect. So you can only sue me for something glaringly obvious being wrong.
And that's if you can sue me at all. In domestic (householder rather than business) works, my warranty is to the client (the developer) only. You as the onward purchaser have no claim against me since you don't pay me. In some circumstances the developer will ask for collateral warranties (where I agree to extend any legal duty of care to other people) but typically this is to "reasonable" business people, not pernickety homebuyers. I wouldn't be able to afford my insurance premiums if I opened myself up to (in a lot of cases) silly claims over trivial matters. The lawyers fees would be astronomical.
The NHBC is set up to deal with this lower level of defects - typically the WC starts to back up because of bad installation or whatever. So the NHBC insures you against that sort of thing.
An architect's certificate is only of value to
1. The actual person who employs the architect.
2. The bank that person has borrowed the money from.
3. A business buying out that person.
For the normal householder the NHBC is the one you want.I'm an ARB-registered RIBA-chartered architect. However, no advice given over the internet can be truly relied upon since the person giving the advice hasn't actually got enough information to give it with confidence. Go and pay someone!0 -
Thinking further about the OP.
No NHBC means you would need to sue the developer in the event of something being wrong. He might, in turn, sue the architect but this would be up to him. Your claim would be against him alone. In practice, you are no better off than buying a Victorian house from AN Other. What guarantees is the developer offering that the house isn't about to fall down/the carpets aren't made of paper? If all that is on offer is the architect's certificate then you have nothing.
Imagine that the sealant around the shower tray has been badly done and that water is getting behind the tiles, through the floor and into the recessed spotlights in the kitchen below. The whole ceiling and a lot of the wiring will need replacing. Even if the architect's certificate has been extended to you, how is this the architect's fault? You don't expect the architect to check every nail has been fully hammered in, every joint properly mastic'd? No, you sue the builder/developer. If they have disappeared, then you have nothing.
And usually, you are buying from a limited company, not an individual. And developers often set up companies for each project - so they sell, pay themselves the profit as dividends and leave the hollow company to be sued for the mistakes.
So, in conclusion - either buy "as seen", same as any Victorian house, or get an NHBC/Zurich warranty.I'm an ARB-registered RIBA-chartered architect. However, no advice given over the internet can be truly relied upon since the person giving the advice hasn't actually got enough information to give it with confidence. Go and pay someone!0 -
If by architects certificate you mean the architect buys an indemnity policy? Its my understanding the lender wants an indemnity for 10 years which an architects certificate doesn't provide?
A quick read of the link shows the biggies Halifax, Nationwide make no mention of accepting an architects certificate in their terms. I know from personal experience the Woolwich won't.0 -
I'd like to correct some of the comments of the previous contributors.
An architect's certificate (now known as professional consultants certificate) is issued in a standardised format prescribed by the Council of Mortgage Lenders. This new form transfers the architect's liability to all future purchasers of the property during a six year period; the CML form is pre-approved and is accepted by the vast majority of lenders. This enables the builder and/or property owner to sell the property on or to raise finance.
For a self-builder, small developer or anyone contemplating the construction of a dwelling for the first time it is probably the best route to take and in some circumstances the only route to take.
As providers of 'architects certificate' our chartered surveyors take pride in making sure that the finished dwelling is free of serious defects. Our surveyors conduct a full structural survey upon completion and provide a snagging report for the builder. The certificate is not issued until the property complies in all respects. Incidentally, we would perform a similar service for the Victorian house example above i.e. a full structural survey for peace of mind.
As a property owner you should remember that you have responsibilities to properly repair and maintain the dwelling thus avoiding the shower-tray example quoted above. If you had a car with a guarantee it wouldn't be covered if you'd never bothered to change the oil and the engine seized!
It is far better to have a new dwelling free of serious defect than to try to rectify using an insurance policy at some future date...
However, we can provide at additional cost a top-up policy to cover a latent defect.
Architectscertificate.co.uk0 -
I'd like to correct the some comments of the previous contributors.
An architect's certificate (now known as professional consultants certificate) is issued in a standardised format prescribed by the Council of Mortgage Lenders. This new form transfers the architect's liability to all future purchasers of the property during a six year period; the CML form is pre-approved and is accepted by the vast majority of lenders. This enable the builder and/or property owner to sell the property on or to raise finance.
For a self-builder, small developer or anyone contemplating the construction of a dwelling for the first time it is probably the best route to take and in some circumstances the only route to take.
As providers of 'architects certificate' our chartered surveyors take pride in making sure that the finished dwelling is free of serious defects. Our surveyors conduct a full structural survey upon completion and provide a snagging report for the builder. The certificate is not issued until the property complies in all respects. Incidentally, we would perform a similar service for the Victorian house example above i.e. a full structural survey for peace of mind.
As a property owner you should remember that you have responsibilities to properly repair and maintain the dwelling thus avoiding the shower-tray example quoted above. If you had a car with a guarantee it wouldn't be covered if you'd never bothered to change the oil and the engine seized!
It is far better to have a new dwelling free of serious defect than to try to rectify using an insurance policy at some future date...
However, we can provide at additional cost a top-up policy to cover a latent defect.
Architectscertificate.co.uk
There's no mention of Architect's certificate and / or professional consultants certificate on the current CML website lenders details.
I don't see how this really differs from a standard Structural survey as they would carry indemnity agains missing any serious defects and you can sue them upto 7 years after the date of survey.
In my experience Lenders are anxious about how the building has been constructed which can only be determined by inspections whilst the build is ongoing. They were also adamant about the '10 year' rule - so how do you overcome this at only 6 years?0 -
Millie, try to google 'cml certificate' for the main explanatory page.
If you can't find it this is the content:
Lenders will generally only lend on a newly built (or newly converted) property where the property is covered by a warranty scheme (for example, NHBC warranty) or the CML Professional Consultant Certificate.
Lenders' full new build requirements are set out in the Lenders' Handbook (in section 6.6). The Lenders' Handbook provides comprehensive instructions for conveyancers acting on behalf of lenders in residential conveyancing transactions.
The CML Professional Consultant Certificate can only be signed by a consultant with one or more of the qualifications listed in section 6.6.4 of the Lenders' Handbook (for example, fellow or associate of the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors). By signing the certificate the consultant confirms that he has monitored the construction of the property and that he will remain liable to the owner and any lenders for six years.
Six years is now the industry minimum standard... properties older than 6 years are properties of long-standing not requiring any such warranty.
We monitor the new-build or conversion from the time we are instructed, commencing with an in-depth analysis of all available technical criteria inc. working drawings, soils examintion, structural calcs, planning permission etc. then through the complete build program... a full structural survey is carried out at practical completion. Any suspect work has to be opened up for inspection and we also examine the local authority building inspection records before issuing any insurance certificate.
It differs from the usual structural survey in as much that the signatory to the CML PCC undertakes to carry over his liability to subsequent lenders in a six year period.
A ten year NHBC guarantee (being a full latent defects policy) is obviously better for total peace of mind, but is not necessary to achieve a sale or re-finance deal etc.0 -
Hi, I have been reading all of the above and trying to build a new house for myself with a view to be able to sell if I have to in the coming months or years, but I am still not sure if should go with either NHBC, LABC, or Architect Certificate. Beside I am not sure what the price difference is between them?
Thanks0 -
Maybe not what you want to hear....and of course every development will be different. But I had a really bad expereince 4 years ago when I bought a new build with an architects certificate. All this is to say is that the building is structurally sound really....so any little problems (e.g. my bathroom was not fitted properly, my kitchen had issues, I had numberous leaks due to bad plumbing, my window leaks and my neighbours had rats because the builders did not seal a hole) and as there was no warranty nothing was covered!
But as I said this is just my experience and I'm sure there are people who've had bad expereinces with NHBC too.0 -
If you are building the property yourself or perhaps overseeing the build then you will be personally responsible for any defects especially within the first two years no matter which scheme you go for.
An 'Architects Certificate' is purely a financial instrument to enable the builder/developer to sell the property on, raise a mortgage or even rent the property and re-finance with a buy-to-let deal.
If you wish to sell the property and pass on to the buyer the benefit of a warranty then you should use the NHBC, Premier or one of the other latent defects schemes. 'An Architects Certificate' WILL NOT provide any defects cover. However, by using a reputable provider of professional consultants certificate you will have the peace of mind that a professional has checked the build program (including the technical info) and also you will have the paperwork to fulfil the needs of your financial lender.
Using our scheme you should save around 50% and will not have to pay out any membership fees or security bonds.
Denstone Chartered Surveyors.0 -
From my experience with a Lender typically an Architect supervisd property was the norm on self build properties which almost always involved stage payments:-
1. First floor level
2 Roofed,
3,Plastered out/first fix
4. Finished.
The architect would certificate each stage and the Lenders valuer would attend the site after each stage to verify satisfactory completion and authorising release of funds.
In my opinion this resuted in a much closer attention to proper adherence to building control requirements and as the Architect had his Professional Indemnity on the line I would have more faith than what an NHBC/Zurich cert actually delivers.
I think the NHBC cover is very much like a lot of "insurance" in that you never know how good the cover is until you have to claim and over the years it has not been plain sailing getting NHBC to cough up.0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 343K Banking & Borrowing
- 250K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 449.6K Spending & Discounts
- 235.1K Work, Benefits & Business
- 607.8K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 173K Life & Family
- 247.8K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
- 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards