St James's place wealth management

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  • Eco_Miser
    Eco_Miser Posts: 4,708
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    Also the fact that the ISA is just there in one lump whereas the pension is like a wage (so you can't blow it all in one).

    Did you miss the "Lamborghini option" now available with pensions? It's possible to take the lot at once if you really want to. (Not sensible, as there will be a lot of tax to pay, but possible.)

    Meanwhile my ISA is drip feeding me a nice supplement to my pensions from the natural income, while still growing in value (neither actually guaranteed).
    Eco Miser
    Saving money for well over half a century
  • bigadaj
    bigadaj Posts: 11,531
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    StellaN wrote: »
    OK, but at the end of the day if customers are willing to pay the excessive charges but are happy with the overall performance then why should we criticise?

    Because they are making themselves less well off through ignorance. You can lead a horse to water and people can make their own chances but it still doesn't mean those are the right choices.

    High charges can be masked, for example over the last year a very average equity heavy portfolio may well have increased by 25% or so in sterling terms; many people are still ignorant of this and don't see it's just a devaluation really, particularly of sterling but in effect if all currencies. On that sort of growth people don't mind paying an extra 1% annually and even the outdated and significant 5% initial charges can be absorbed.

    However over the longer term, with an incredibly low interest rate environment then the likelihood is that stock market returns will revert to long term trends, so a few per cent year plus a similar amount in dividends, and 2% effective charges on a portfolio making 5-6% per year, and obviously losing money in certain years, may make the excessive charges a little more obvious and unpalatable.
  • Eco_Miser wrote: »
    Did you miss the "Lamborghini option" now available with pensions? It's possible to take the lot at once if you really want to. (Not sensible, as there will be a lot of tax to pay, but possible.)

    Meanwhile my ISA is drip feeding me a nice supplement to my pensions from the natural income, while still growing in value (neither actually guaranteed).
    I'm aware you can take the lot at once but it's a little different isn't it.

    To word it another way, pensions give the option to pay out as a monthly wage whereas unless i've misunderstood ISAs, they don't.
  • bigadaj
    bigadaj Posts: 11,531
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    I'm aware you can take the lot at once but it's a little different isn't it.

    To word it another way, pensions give the option to pay out as a monthly wage whereas unless i've misunderstood ISAs, they don't.

    You can arrange to oay a monthly sum from any isa, whether that be from income, growth or capital or any combination.
  • greenglide
    greenglide Posts: 3,301
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    In many ways it is easier from a S&S ISA than it is for a pension.

    I dont recall having seen a cash ISA that lets you set up a regular payment but I could be wrong!
  • bigadaj wrote: »
    You can arrange to oay a monthly sum from any isa, whether that be from income, growth or capital or any combination.
    I wasn't aware of that one. Thanks.

    So to those challenging my last couple posts, why should/would i take out a S&S ISA over a pension (or even a pension over a S&S ISA) then?

    There's still the benefits thing which i haven't seen challenged yet.

    I know benefits is a sore topic for many. No i'm not on any & no i don't see myself as being a benefit bum, however one day i may end up in the position where i have to or am eligible to claim means tested benefits for one reason or another (basically nobody knows what tomorrow may bring and if there's little difference between S&S ISA and pensions up to that point....)
  • sandsy
    sandsy Posts: 1,715
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    StellaN wrote: »
    Yes,I've just looked at the performance of the Global, North American, International Equity and Greater European funds and I've been very surprised! That also takes into account the absurd charges but they are good funds that seem to work well.

    The fund pricing takes into account the fund charges - but SJP levy a bucket load of charges on top of that which isn't reflected in the price of the units.

    Every charge levied by SJP which is higher than from a competitor means the SJP returns have to be higher than from a competitor for the same outcome.
  • bigadaj
    bigadaj Posts: 11,531
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    I wasn't aware of that one. Thanks.

    So to those challenging my last couple posts, why should/would i take out a S&S ISA over a pension (or even a pension over a S&S ISA) then?

    There's still the benefits thing which i haven't seen challenged yet.

    I know benefits is a sore topic for many. No i'm not on any & no i don't see myself as being a benefit bum, however one day i may end up in the position where i have to or am eligible to claim means tested benefits for one reason or another (basically nobody knows what tomorrow may bring and if there's little difference between S&S ISA and pensions up to that point....)

    Different solutions for different problems.

    Pensions are locked up until 55, you get tax relief on contributions but payments from them above the tfls are taxable. Don't forget that teh rules around pensions have changed radically in the last ten years, they were very much more restrictive until quite recently.

    Isas will allow access, no tax relief but they grow and be laid out tax free.

    For many people the means tested benefits thing will be a little irrelevant, you can of course put yourself into a position of claiming benefits and have a large pension pot locked away but that doesn't seem to be a pleasant or even sensible way of living your life.
  • bigadaj wrote: »
    Different solutions for different problems.

    Pensions are locked up until 55, you get tax relief on contributions but payments from them above the tfls are taxable. Don't forget that teh rules around pensions have changed radically in the last ten years, they were very much more restrictive until quite recently.

    Isas will allow access, no tax relief but they grow and be laid out tax free.

    For many people the means tested benefits thing will be a little irrelevant, you can of course put yourself into a position of claiming benefits and have a large pension pot locked away but that doesn't seem to be a pleasant or even sensible way of living your life.

    I agree (last statement).
    I'm quite prepared to be shown the right direction as i don't pretend to know the ins and outs of this. On that note the way i'm looking at it is that my mother for example never used to be on benefits other than any child related benefits (not sure if they are means tested). She worked since she was 15.
    Then in time she became unable to work and now claims benefits related to this.

    So rewind x-years and she'd have never seen it coming but it's happened.

    Now as far as i understand it, and since she had to declare all her savings (no problem) if her 'retirement savings' were in an ISA then this would then impact on her benefits whereas if they were in a pension then they wouldn't. Correct?
    Also in the grand scheme of things there's little difference between the two right? Aside from the being able to access ISAs and not pensions etc. When i say little difference i mean you can invest in the same things, shift what you're invested in over time so on & so forth. ISAs you get taxed on the way in and pensions on the way out. So as far as making money goes there's little difference. It's not like ... if you invest in a pension/ISA then that will earn more, work harder than the ISA/pension is it.

    So in her case it would be better to have been in a pension than an ISA (she's actually in neither tbh but just for arguments sake let's assume she was...) right?
  • bigadaj
    bigadaj Posts: 11,531
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    I agree (last statement).
    I'm quite prepared to be shown the right direction as i don't pretend to know the ins and outs of this. On that note the way i'm looking at it is that my mother for example never used to be on benefits other than any child related benefits (not sure if they are means tested). She worked since she was 15.
    Then in time she became unable to work and now claims benefits related to this.

    So rewind x-years and she'd have never seen it coming but it's happened.

    Now as far as i understand it, and since she had to declare all her savings (no problem) if her 'retirement savings' were in an ISA then this would then impact on her benefits whereas if they were in a pension then they wouldn't. Correct?
    Also in the grand scheme of things there's little difference between the two right? Aside from the being able to access ISAs and not pensions etc. When i say little difference i mean you can invest in the same things, shift what you're invested in over time so on & so forth. ISAs you get taxed on the way in and pensions on the way out. So as far as making money goes there's little difference. It's not like ... if you invest in a pension/ISA then that will earn more, work harder than the ISA/pension is it.

    So in her case it would be better to have been in a pension than an ISA (she's actually in neither tbh but just for arguments sake let's assume she was...) right?

    With respect to your mothers situation I think you've answered your own question, she didn't have the means to save and therefore the question is academic.

    Politically benefits are being reduced so the situation you need to access them is getting more difficult, and ultimately most people would prefer to be in control of their situation, as far as you can, rather than reliant in the vagaries and whiles of politicians.

    Many people would consider it better to use isas when young and not high earning, as the tax relief isn't huge and you retain access and flexibility.

    You can invest in pretty much the same things but it's a personal preference, the answer to many financial questions is not one extreme or the other, so splitting between isas and pensions would be best for many.
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