Referendum: which way are you voting?

I suspect - at least for the moment - that you are correct. However, we don't really know what is coming (heck look at the outcome of the meeting with regional leaders earlier this week - only the DUP came out of it thinking that something useful was said). There is the potential for more pain but I think that the EU trade deal on Canada is a big risk to the EU - the blocking by a small local region only goes to prove the validity of the motivation for the UK leaving. This is a double edged sword, of course. This canada issue may have others more willing to accept that the EU (in present form) is a bit daft. That may go to help fuel further exits, who knows? That being the case, will weaken the Euro and thus put the pound back onto a stronger footing (good!). On the flip side, when it comes to the UK negotiating a package, we could find that some daft contingent within the EU - with no real reliance on the UK, simply an axe to grind -could block any half reasonable trade deal. That being the case, we could well have another correction on our hands. Of course that scenario would spell more doom for the EU so we end up going down a rabbit hole.

In all of this, however, we have a lot of work to do to regain strength on the dollar. To some extent, the pound/dollar has corrected to what the market feels the UK is 'worth' out of the EU. Until we get the exit underway and have some idea what it will mean at national level and how businesses react to that policy, we won't know if things will get better or worse. I think that it should get better, since the UK IS better than what this correction has valued us at. However, wranglings with the EU could spook the markets further and we could find that we have a dozen years of hard slog to prove our worth to the world.

Ultimately this whole thing boils down to the UK believing in itself - that is fine, I think we are better as a team but I don't disagree that we can do well ourselves. Unfortunately, the world disagrees (in fact, we knew they disagreed before we voted - the press was overwhelming in this regard). No level of self belief can fix this quickly. This outcome was almost inevitably going to mean a significant period proving to the world what we believe ourselves. I just hope that, by the time my daughter enters the working world, things will have settled. For my parents (who voted out), I fear that they are going to have to suffer a few years extra before properly retiring, they will need the money to pay for the newly inflated price of living.

qwert_yuiop wrote: »

My parents, as children of the 40s, are horrified that anyone was happy to disrupt European interdependence. My children will not be able to experience the freedom of labour mobility that I have. If that's the only drawback, I'm sure they'll cope.

The latest leak really puts a cap on it - Theresa telling Goldman Sachs that she believed Brexit was a bad idea. What next? Boris is found to have written an article in support of communism just in case it ever becomes popular again?

I'm quote happy with the prospect of Brexit.


My son is 22 and hes furious. Hasn't known any different I guess, or that there was "life before the EU"

motorguy wrote: »

I'm quote happy with the prospect of Brexit.


My son is 22 and hes furious. Hasn't known any different I guess, or that there was "life before the EU"

Sounds similar to my father. When he was in his 20s and 30s, the EU wasn't there to give him a load of opportunities. Now that he is in his 60s he sees mostly the red tape and silly things that hit the news.

The difference between my father and I is that, when I was in my early 20s, the EU gave me the opportunity to easily travel, to gain funding to spend time as a PhD student, to work at places like CERN (etc). He has considered mostly just his experience and has ignored that things have changed such that there is more now than ever existed in his youth.

Unfortunately, Brexit will impact your son's potential for higher level education when you compare it to me. It might not matter to your son specifically, but there are lots of bright kids out there who will be forced to fight for jobs at an earlier age because there money won't be there to spend time in university at the upper levels.

x12yhp wrote: »

Sounds similar to my father. When he was in his 20s and 30s, the EU wasn't there to give him a load of opportunities. Now that he is in his 60s he sees mostly the red tape and silly things that hit the news.

The difference between my father and I is that, when I was in my early 20s, the EU gave me the opportunity to easily travel, to gain funding to spend time as a PhD student, to work at places like CERN (etc). He has considered mostly just his experience and has ignored that things have changed such that there is more now than ever existed in his youth.

Unfortunately, Brexit will impact your son's potential for higher level education when you compare it to me. It might not matter to your son specifically, but there are lots of bright kids out there who will be forced to fight for jobs at an earlier age because there money won't be there to spend time in university at the upper levels.

That was all disrupted by Blair's removal of free third level education. Brexit or otherwise had very little to do with this. Aren't the Swiss involved?

Well, that's an entirely different matter. I believe only 14% of 18 year olds were at university in the 1980s. I agree that the system has gone awry, with an apparent obligation to take on debt which may never be repaid.

As for PhD funding, surely it's a matter of uk government policy rather than any fundamental aspect of eu philosophy or practice. I wouldn't discount the possibility of the same programmes continuing. CERN as you mention involves Switzerland, being sited on the border, and was established long before the eu got to its present size by many countries not in the eec at the time.
It seems Theresa was able to facilitate nissan's expansion. Why should everything grind to a halt?