Ticketmaster refuse refund

ccalvo23
ccalvo23 Posts: 7 Forumite
edited 4 October 2017 at 1:35PM in Consumer rights
Hi guys,

Hope someone can help.

A few weeks ago I purchased tickets on ticketmaster for an event that takes place this weekend. Although it was my credit card used they were purchased for my partner. I chose the option of standard post.

With four working days left until the event the tickets had not arrived. I contacted ticketmaster to locate their whereabouts. Later that day AND AFTER NUMEROUS EMAILS and tweets Ticketmaster responded saying the tickets hadn't been printed and would need to be collected at the box office.

Immediately I knew this would be an issue. I chose 'standard post' as although it was a more expensive option, under 'box office collection' it clearly stated 'letters of authorisation will not be accepted, cardholder must be present'.

I informed ticketmaster that I specifically selected post as I will not be in town and need my credit card on my person at that time. They offered to transfer the purchase to my partners card. He doesn't have the required funds.

Ticketmaster have said without my being present or my partner transferring the purchase, he will be refused entry and I will NOT BE REFUNDED. They refer to their terms and conditions: 'we reserve the right to make tickets available for collection by you at the box office'.

Leaving aside their tardiness in not contacting me making me aware of the change. Surely this is altering the terms of the contract. I specified 'to be posted'. They have changed the terms, and thus I have the right to refuse those terms? Or am I bound by their unfair terms?

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Comments

  • BorisThomson
    BorisThomson Posts: 1,721
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    Transfer the required funds to your partner's card.
  • Can't do it. Only have funds on credit card. That's like a cash transaction, very expensive.

    I'm more interested in my rights anyway. Plus why should I have to incur extra expense? Surely they've changed the terms?
  • BorisThomson
    BorisThomson Posts: 1,721
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    They reserve the right to issue tickets at the box office. You agreed to that when you purchased the tickets.

    The only refund you are entitled to is the cost of postage.

    (You might want to look a the Debtfree Wannabe board whilst you're here.)
  • ccalvo23
    ccalvo23 Posts: 7 Forumite
    edited 4 October 2017 at 2:09PM
    They reserve the right to issue tickets at the box office. You agreed to that when you purchased the tickets.

    Even though I didn't explicitly agree? I'm sure its buried in their terms and conditons but doesn't it seem pointless to offer postage as an option then?

    This term may apply in ordinary circumstances sure. But when the event EXPLICITLY STATES 'Letters of authorisation not accepted for box office collection, cardholder must be present', doesn't this create extraordinary circumstances?

    Oh and thanks for the debt advice, but I'll be fine.
  • unholyangel
    unholyangel Posts: 16,863
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    edited 4 October 2017 at 5:04PM
    They reserve the right to issue tickets at the box office. You agreed to that when you purchased the tickets.

    The only refund you are entitled to is the cost of postage.

    (You might want to look a the Debtfree Wannabe board whilst you're here.)

    They could also reserve the right to your first born child - however just because something is said doesn't make it legally enforceable.

    They can't have a clause that allows them to vary the terms of the contract once it has been agreed (at least not without the consumer consenting to the changes). Nor can they have a term which effectively acts as a exclusion clause to absolve them of liability for breach of contract. Even worse is an exclusion clause which has the effect of making the consumer liable for the breach of the company (which this one does). Especially when such a change is to the consumers detriment (ie increased cost, reduced benefit etc).


    However its worth the OP bearing in mind if the company aren't going to overnight the tickets, they may have to make the choice of going out of their way or not going at all as I imagine the time restraints may be an issue.

    OP have you tried contacting your card company and seeing if they can offer any assistance?


    ETA: I've actually just checked the wording of the clause and it says:
    5.4 We reserve the right to make tickets available for collection by you at the venue box office. We will notify you by telephone or email of the arrangements for collection (using the details provided by you at the time of ordering) if this becomes necessary. You may be required to provide your booking confirmation email and your photo ID to collect tickets.

    So no mention of having to collect them in person, only that your booking confirmation & photo ID may be required to collect them. Seems ticketmaster can't even stick to their own terms, never mind sticking to statute!
    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride
  • They can't have a clause that allows them to vary the terms of the contract once it has been agreed (at least not without the consumer consenting to the changes). Nor can they have a term which effectively acts as a exclusion clause to absolve them of liability for breach of contract.

    OP have you tried contacting your card company and seeing if they can offer any assistance?

    Wow.Thanks very much. A very different and much more encouraging response than 'no, terms say no.'

    I was beginning to become quite disheartened that I was going to lose my money and my partner was not going to be able to attend the event.

    Ticketmaster continue to insist that I agreed to their terms that they can make tickets available for box office collection as and when they wish.

    I have sent in a complaint, but after back and forth they are not budging.

    As for the credit card company? What recourse could they offer?
  • unholyangel
    unholyangel Posts: 16,863
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    Specifically mention to them that their term is in breach of unfair term legislation and therefore unenforceable, they cannot use terms to restrict or remove your statutory rights (and attempting to do so may amount to a criminal offence), they cannot make you liable for their breach, they cannot have a contract that is binding on you yet allows them to make changes to what was agreed (so not binding on them), they cannot have a term which effectively allows them to be negligent with impunity, also the terms of the acceptance must exactly match that of the offer (so when you offered to pay £x for x number of tickets to be delivered, they need to accept on that basis or there never was any contract between you - any variation in the terms amounts to a counter offer and not acceptance).

    Did you ask them why they require your physical presence at the box office when their terms only make mention of booking confirmation & photo ID?

    Did they comply with the consumer contract (information, cancellation & additional charges) regulations? These regulations require them to provide certain information in a durable medium (websites are not durable, email is but again, not if its a link to a website).

    As for your credit card company....section 75 would be preferable - it makes the card company jointly & severally liable (meaning you have the same rights against them as you do the retailer) but the tickets would need to be over £100 each.

    Alternatively, you should be able to do a chargeback for non-delivery (even if the tickets cost less than £100 each).
    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride
  • martinsurrey
    martinsurrey Posts: 3,368 Forumite
    Specifically mention to them that their term is in breach of unfair term legislation and therefore unenforceable, they cannot use terms to restrict or remove your statutory rights (and attempting to do so may amount to a criminal offence), they cannot make you liable for their breach, they cannot have a contract that is binding on you yet allows them to make changes to what was agreed (so not binding on them), they cannot have a term which effectively allows them to be negligent with impunity, also the terms of the acceptance must exactly match that of the offer (so when you offered to pay £x for x number of tickets to be delivered, they need to accept on that basis or there never was any contract between you - any variation in the terms amounts to a counter offer and not acceptance).

    Did you ask them why they require your physical presence at the box office when their terms only make mention of booking confirmation & photo ID?

    Did they comply with the consumer contract (information, cancellation & additional charges) regulations? These regulations require them to provide certain information in a durable medium (websites are not durable, email is but again, not if its a link to a website).

    As for your credit card company....section 75 would be preferable - it makes the card company jointly & severally liable (meaning you have the same rights against them as you do the retailer) but the tickets would need to be over £100 each.

    Alternatively, you should be able to do a chargeback for non-delivery (even if the tickets cost less than £100 each).

    Normally I agree with you unholy, but I don't think its as clear cut as you think.

    The terms of the postage option are that they will attempt to post the tickets but if they are not received in time for the event they must be collected.

    Ticketmaster did not guarantee postage would happen, so guaranteed postage is not a term of the contract.

    OP agreed, and paid for, Ticketmaster to attempt to post the tickets and agreed to collect them if this was not possible, which is what has happened.

    I dont see any breach of contract.
  • Keep_pedalling
    Keep_pedalling Posts: 16,441
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    ccalvo23 wrote: »
    Can't do it. Only have funds on credit card. That's like a cash transaction, very expensive.

    I'm more interested in my rights anyway. Plus why should I have to incur extra expense? Surely they've changed the terms?

    Not as expensive as losing the whole amount.

    TM is giving you the chance to mitigate your losses, which you are refusing to do which will likely mean you will loose a sec 75 claim.

    You say tickets not ticket, so presumably at least one other person is going with your partner, can any of them use their card?
  • unholyangel
    unholyangel Posts: 16,863
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    edited 5 October 2017 at 4:23PM
    Normally I agree with you unholy, but I don't think its as clear cut as you think.

    The terms of the postage option are that they will attempt to post the tickets but if they are not received in time for the event they must be collected.

    Ticketmaster did not guarantee postage would happen, so guaranteed postage is not a term of the contract.

    OP agreed, and paid for, Ticketmaster to attempt to post the tickets and agreed to collect them if this was not possible, which is what has happened.

    I dont see any breach of contract.

    To the contrary, I don't think its as clear cut at all like boris or ticketmaster are suggesting.

    They can't have a term allowing them discretion not to provide part of the contract as agreed - that goes beyond a merely technical change (which is allowed providing you adequately draw attention to it and don't bury it in T&C's). One of the elements required to have a legally binding contract is certainty - such a term conflicts with that principle.

    If you still doubt what I'm saying, check out the CMA's Unfair Term Guidance and in particular what it says under the headings:
    Binding consumers where the trader defaults
    Trader’s right to vary terms generally
    Right to determine or change what is supplied
    Allowing the trader to impose unfair financial burdens
    Transferring inappropriate risks to consumers
    Exclusions and reservations of special rights
    Trader’s discretion in relation to obligations
    Exclusion and limitation clauses in general
    2(f) Exclusion of liability for delay
    2(g) Exclusion of liability for failure to perform contractual obligations (pay particular attention to paragraph 5.10.3)

    I've quoted the headings rather than paragraphs as theres just far too much to quote. Even just to quote the paragraphs that are most relevant would still result in at least 10 paragraphs being quoted. But I'll settle for this one:
    Part 1 of Schedule 2 states that the following may be unfair:
    (2) A term which has the object or effect of inappropriately excluding
    or limiting the legal rights of the consumer in relation to the trader
    or another party in the event of total or partial non-performance or
    inadequate performance by the trader of any of the contractual
    obligations
    , including the option of offsetting a debt owed to the
    trader against any claim which the consumer may have against
    the trader.

    Given how many headings it seems to conflict with, I'd say there is little (if any) doubt that the term would indeed be found to be unfair.


    ETA: To highlight how absurd such a term is. What if you ordered a 3 piece suite from a retailer, they didn't send it out and then used a similar term to try and tell you that they weren't going to deliver it and instead you must collect it from their store - even if that involves considerable expense, time & inconvenience for you - and you're not entitled to a refund. Would you still think the term was fair?
    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride
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