PIP confusion, advice needed please

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  • I did say this was a nuclear option and applies only if you're a Council or Housing Assoc. tenant, but I know from professional experience that even just telling them that you are struggling to pay the rent will produce a response. Their tenancy systems should have you registered as disabled and that will flag this up to anyone you speak to - I would ask for the Area Housing Manager, Head of Housing Benefits or the Tenancy Support Team. It is a last resort, but if nothing else is working then it's worth a try. Might not be worth the risk for this lady, depends on where she lives. If we knew that (roughly, not actual address) then more specific help would be possible.

    Re. My earlier domestic abuse comment, I'd add I was a trustee of a rape crisis centre for several years. All the staff and volunteers are wonderful people and will understand and help if they possibly can.
  • Alice_Holt
    Alice_Holt Posts: 5,946 Forumite
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    I did say this was a nuclear option and applies only if you're a Council or Housing Association tenant.

    You obviously are not aware of introductory tenancies.

    Here is some info for you:
    https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/council_housing_association/introductory_council_tenancies
    "Many councils (and housing associations) give introductory tenancies to new tenants.
    An introductory tenancy is a probationary tenancy that allows the council to decide if you are a good tenant.
    Introductory tenants can be evicted quite easily.
    The council has to get a court order and follow the correct procedure but it doesn't have to prove a legal reason in court."

    We have also seen private tenants with a spotless record in paying their rent, telling their landlord of a slight change in their financial situation, only then to be subjected to a Section 21 eviction notice.

    As the OP has a specific benefit issue she should seek help from an advice agency (such as CAB).

    She may well decide to tell her social housing officer of her circumstances, and they may be able to refer her on to a local advice agency. However, for you to tell her to deliberately withhold rent is foolhardy, and very dangerous advice for anyone who follows it.
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
  • Alice, I'm not trying to get into an argument with you here just provide some help to someone who is clearly desperate and has tried the obvious things including CAB. I am aware of introductory tenancies (in fact I helped one of the local authorities I advised write the procedures for dealing with each of the equaliy groups) and this lady clearly isn't in one as she has been in her flat since at least 2007, probably longer, and had at least some adaptations done. To be crystal clear, if, for whatever reason, someone can't get the help they need in any other way then desperate measures are needed to get attention and if an LA or HA tenant says they are struggling with rent - and I imagine that this lady may well be if her PIP is taken away or reduced - then telling the council or HA will make them pay attention. Evicting people isn't cheap - especially if disabled adaptations would have to be removed before a property can be re-let so social landlords will try and find other solutions first. But I have suggested a number of other things in earlier posts and would hope that one of these will work. I'll shut up now!
  • Alice_Holt
    Alice_Holt Posts: 5,946 Forumite
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    Spindrift24,
    The reason I'm persisting with this is to underline to how dangerous your advice "to stop paying rent as that will get their attention" is to anyone who may be reading this thread.

    This is extremely dangerous advice.

    Here is Shelter's guidance on not paying rent if repairs are outstanding.
    https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/doing_the_repairs_if_your_landlord_wont
    "You do not have the right to stop paying rent because your landlord won't do repairs.
    Your landlord can take steps to evict you for rent arrears if you don't pay the rent."

    This is from Citizens Advice adviceguide on repairs "If your landlord won’t do the repairs. Keep paying your rent. If you don't, you'll get into rent arrears and your landlord might then try to evict you."

    The above guidance concerns something that is under the landlords control (repairs to their property).
    PIP / DLA decisions are nothing to do with the LA or HA. How can "getting their attention" possibly resolve a PIP issue?

    If a tenant is struggling financially then a chat with their housing office may well be prompt the LA or HA to signpost tenants to agencies that can help. You do this through discussion, not a unilateral decision to withhold rent due. Such a decision is only likely to lead to ongoing arrears difficulties (it's likely that some of the rent money may be spent on other things) , additional costs incurred (admin fees / bailiffs fees / court fees) , and a deteriorating relationship with the landlord.

    Please, please edit your posts to remove the suggestion of withholding of rent.
    It is really, really, really bad advice.

    I have posted at length on this thread about the benefit appeal process. See posts 5, 17, 48 & 51.
    The OP has already had her thread hijacked by RB, she really does not want someone posting the ludicrous suggestion to not pay rent. Please remove or revoke this advice.
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
  • nannytone_2
    nannytone_2 Posts: 12,946 Forumite
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    you stop paying rent, you break your contract. you are in the wrong.
    simple as
  • I hope someone can help i have been off work since June 2016 with chronic Migraine and depression i have been under a neurologist and my doctor i applied for pip as i am struggling every day with headache and get a full blown migraine about 5 to 6 times a month which can last up to 72 hours when they do happen i cant do a thing. i had my face to face meeting and got 0 points. i was told chronic migraine is not an illness. i have read somewhere that a judge said it was can anyone help me please
  • Alice_Holt
    Alice_Holt Posts: 5,946 Forumite
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    edited 10 June 2017 at 10:23AM
    Bridgeford5,

    Look at my earlier posts here (5, 17, 48) in which the appeal process is outlined.
    I would suggest you see if your local CAB / advice agency can offer help.


    This is what the Migraine Trust say:

    "Migraine may be considered as a disability under the Equality Act 2010. This will depend on the severity and frequency of the attacks and the impact the condition has on the sufferer. The Equality Act defines disability as: ‘a physical or mental impairment which has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on your ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities’. Migraine is clearly a physical impairment. To fall within the Act, you then need to establish that the effect of the condition has a substantial and long term adverse effect on your ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.

    ‘Substantial’ means more than minor or trivial. ‘Long-term’ means that the impairment has lasted or is likely to last for at least 12 months or the rest of your life. ‘Normal day-to-day activities’ are not set out in the Act. However, there is guidance to the Act, which says: ‘In general, day to day activities are activities that people do on a regular or daily basis’. For instance, shopping, reading and writing, holding a conversation or using the telephone, watching TV, carrying out household tasks, walking and travelling by various forms of transport and taking part in social activities. This can also include general work-related activities such as ‘Interacting with colleagues, following instructions, using a computer, driving, carrying out interviews, preparing written documents, and keeping to a timetable or shift pattern’.

    Your doctor or headache nurse may be able to advise you on whether your migraine condition is likely to be considered substantial, long-term and likely to affect such day-to-day activities"

    If you google "PIP and Chronic Migraine", you will get more leads.

    See also: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5631449#2)
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
  • Thank you very much i have been to the doctor and i am going to have them for the rest of my life and every day is different i would say more than half the days in a month are really bad and i can not do anything ? i will go to cab om Monday
  • pmlindyloo
    pmlindyloo Posts: 13,049 Forumite
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    I suffered from very bad migraines when I was younger and know how awful they can be.

    Since migraine sufferers are affected differently then I think it may be worth keeping a diary to include with you evidence for your appeal. If someone can confirm the details it might be useful (family member?)

    For instance, I did not get a headache, but flashing lights, blurred vision, incoherent speech and then paralysis of my face until I b#blacked' out for several hours. For a couple of days afterwards I could not function well as was in a 'fuzz'.

    Since eligibility for PIP does depend on the frequency of your disability keeping a diary ('before days' if you get any warnings, 'during' and 'after days') with very detailed explanations could help in this aspect.

    Many people think having a migraine is simply a bad headache but it can be so much more.

    I don't know whether your consultant/doctor has detailed your particular case with a full explanation of the details but if not it may be worth asking your GP for this.

    Good luck!
  • Alice_Holt
    Alice_Holt Posts: 5,946 Forumite
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    edited 10 June 2017 at 12:17PM
    i would say more than half the days in a month are really bad and i can not do anything

    Excellent suggestion by pmlinyloo.

    The PIP assessment should look at what you can do reliably on the majority of days (over 365 days) - it may be that the assessor just concentrated on how you were on the day of the assessment, and consequently produced a flawed PA4 report.

    If you go to tribunal with strong medical evidence and a diary / examples to tell the tribunal about, I'm sure you would have a good chance of getting the DWP decision overturned.

    More than 65% of PIP appeals are successful. Don't worry about the 0 points, our local CAB regularly get flawed 0 points decisions overturned at tribunal.

    I would suggest when you get to the Tribunal Service SSCS1 form stage (after mandatory reconsideration), you request on the form that, should you be subject to an attack on the day of the hearing, the hearing is postponed so that you have the opportunity to attend at a later date and explain things fully to the panel members.

    The "How to win a PIP appeal guide", and Benefits & Work are very useful resources.
    http://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal
    https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-appeals
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
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