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  • FIRST POST
    • applepicker
    • By applepicker 16th Mar 17, 9:25 AM
    • 147Posts
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    applepicker
    Is this person just trying to get her hands on lady's inheritance?
    • #1
    • 16th Mar 17, 9:25 AM
    Is this person just trying to get her hands on lady's inheritance? 16th Mar 17 at 9:25 AM
    I live in a town on the South Coast and I do gardening in a rich part of the town. This old woman (90) has a bungalow and it's probably worth 500,000. I have worked there for 5 years and in that whole time this woman (mid-late 50) a school TA has been coming round and seeing her. Apparently she takes no money and looks after her. All the neighbours think she's a carer, but she doesn't get any money. They first met a few years ago when she and her husband did gardening for her. I think she just tried this when her kids grew up and she wanted a job, she's now a teaching assistant in a school. She has never been very friendly to me and was always in conflict with another lady who worked there before and did the cleaning. The cleaner said she was a stirrer and conniving. Recently she came out of hospital and I went around to collect some money for sorting out the bins. She marched up the drive didn't say hello to me which is normal and said to the carers I am the next of kin. She seems to be trying to control everything about the lady's life. The old lady thinks she's wonderful and keeps saying she's the best friend ever- goes to her bed in hospital etc She says she's teacher and ex-nurse etc etc Her husband who is also wonderful according to her does her accounts and manages her money. The ex-cleaner who got sick of it all and quit told me the old lady was always talking about who was on the will etc The old lady seems a bit nuts to me. For example, she's German and actually met Hitler. She said to me she was told in high school that Hitler killed himself when he heard about all the Jews being gassed and couldn't live with himself and that it was the men who surrounded Hitler who were responsible for it. She still absolutely believes that lol, After hearing this and other crazy things I think she's quite gullible.


    Have I got this wrong, is the lady in her 50s whole friendship based on her getting the inheritance? Will she definitely get it? Apparently, the German lady has a nephew in Germany, she also has a genuine friend (another old lady) who lives down the road. Her husband who was rich and had all the money (is dead) has lots of nephews and nieces.
    Last edited by applepicker; 16-03-2017 at 9:28 AM.
Page 3
    • thorsoak
    • By thorsoak 17th Mar 17, 6:15 AM
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    thorsoak
    applepicker : ever heard the saying "when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging"?

    I would suggest that YOU are the malicious one, gossiping with a sacked cleaner and carer, making the elderly lady's life a cause for gossip - and why on earth, because someone doesn't live in a council house should Mrs 50 not care for someone? Maybe she does actually CARE!
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 17th Mar 17, 8:46 AM
    • 18,023 Posts
    • 45,931 Thanks
    Pollycat
    Well she was/is stirring with the cleaner who was there for ten years and got me fired once by stirring up trouble. The cleaner got my job back after a year. (The inheritance lady) has stirred up trouble for both of us, and it could be that she sees everyone as a threat to the money!
    Originally posted by applepicker
    Or it could be that she has the old lady's best interests at heart and sees you as a potential trouble-causer for the old lady.

    Because that would be normal. People just aren't this nice. If she lived in a council flat a random ex-gardener (inheritance lady) wouldn't be coming around 5 evenings a week and doing all this. And if she is a mother Teresa then why is she so mean to me, the cleaner before and why did she get rid of another woman before who was helping the German lady years ago by stirring up trouble?
    Originally posted by applepicker
    People can be that nice.
    You do not know whether she would still be coming to see the old lady if she lived in a council flat or not.
    Maybe she is mean to you because you are clearly suspicious of her with - from what I've read - no valid reason.
    TBH, if I were visiting an old lady and a gardener showed the attitude that you seem to have, I'd be mean to you too.

    I don't like her because I feel or suspect she has plotted this whole thing rather than it happening naturally.
    Originally posted by applepicker
    'feel'
    'suspect'

    I really do hope you are not considering reporting this woman based on this.

    After reading your latest posts, I think I'm tending to agree with this:
    And this is any of your business because....?
    Originally posted by tea lover
    • tea lover
    • By tea lover 17th Mar 17, 8:48 AM
    • 7,996 Posts
    • 35,714 Thanks
    tea lover
    Also interesting that one of the very first things you posted was your perceived value of her house. Doesn't sound like it's her welfare you're concerned about.
    • pollypenny
    • By pollypenny 17th Mar 17, 9:24 AM
    • 22,615 Posts
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    pollypenny
    This is so odd! People do good things, you know.

    We moved north and were very thankful to friends who helped my parents when we weren't around. I mean lifts, moving heavy stuff etc and even holding my father's cheque book to get out money for him when he went into a residential home.

    My aunt, 300 miles away, also has good neighbours who help her.

    My friend and neighbour, 88, will be here for all three rugby games tomorrow. Perhaps I'll be accused of plying her with wine for nefarious reasons.
    Member #14 of SKI-ers club

    Words, words, they're all we have to go by!.

    (Pity they are mangled by this autocorrect!)
    • Bath cube
    • By Bath cube 17th Mar 17, 8:33 PM
    • 155 Posts
    • 76 Thanks
    Bath cube
    If you genuinely think the younger woman and her partner are taking advantage or coercing the old lady then there is only one thing you could do.contact your local council and ask for adult services. Tell them the story and they will decide if any safe guarding action should be taken. I don't really think it's a police matter but social services have the time and resources to investigate these types of things. Do you think that the old lady would be in a old people's home if the couple didn't go round to see her?.
    • Scrimps
    • By Scrimps 17th Mar 17, 10:05 PM
    • 152 Posts
    • 719 Thanks
    Scrimps
    Or it could be that she has the old lady's best interests at heart and sees you as a potential trouble-causer for the old lady.


    People can be that nice.
    You do not know whether she would still be coming to see the old lady if she lived in a council flat or not.
    Maybe she is mean to you because you are clearly suspicious of her with - from what I've read - no valid reason.
    TBH, if I were visiting an old lady and a gardener showed the attitude that you seem to have, I'd be mean to you too.


    'feel'
    'suspect'


    I really do hope you are not considering reporting this woman based on this.

    After reading your latest posts, I think I'm tending to agree with this:
    Originally posted by Pollycat

    I agree people can be nice, and actually usually are but i have highlighted the words 'feel' and 'suspect' that you quoted because, actually, that is when you should report your concerns.

    Perhaps having worked in youth services and now the NHS my view is skwewed.
    They ask that you report/flag 'feelings' and 'suspicions' because when multiple people dont , the numerous people that had nothing more than 'feelings' and 'suspicions' dont add to the bigger, concerning picture of possible abuse/coercion etc....usually gets reported in the news about children rather than the elderly but doesnt mean its any less prevalent.

    That said, youre not an agency with safeguarding obligations and be careful of listening to gossip and also letting your own possible dislike of someone skew your thought process as to their motives.
    • barbarawright
    • By barbarawright 17th Mar 17, 10:54 PM
    • 1,675 Posts
    • 3,214 Thanks
    barbarawright
    Yes, and I'd really doubt that it was 18 years in Germany.

    The OP has edited the original post so no idea what was changed.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    The minimum school leaving age in Britain was 14 but that doesn't mean some people didn't stay on until 18. It would have been the same in Germany
    • applepicker
    • By applepicker 17th Mar 17, 11:08 PM
    • 147 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    applepicker
    If you genuinely think the younger woman and her partner are taking advantage or coercing the old lady then there is only one thing you could do.contact your local council and ask for adult services. Tell them the story and they will decide if any safe guarding action should be taken. I don't really think it's a police matter but social services have the time and resources to investigate these types of things. Do you think that the old lady would be in a old people's home if the couple didn't go round to see her?.
    Originally posted by Bath cube

    Yes, I think she should be in a care home now. Although she's so stubborn she wouldn't want to go and loves her house. Recently she broke her hip and has just got back to house. Social services assessed that she needs two carers to visit everyday now. The '50s' woman still visits as well. Another reason I don't like her is after I sorted the recycling bins on my credit card I went around to get the cash and she said 'can't you get it next week'. She is difficult about paying and questions things and is condescending despite the fact that I go out of my way to do stuff.


    I think she might actually care about the old German lady and her and her husband (who rarely visits but manages her money) are useful to her but I can't believe someone as controlling, suspicious, conniving etc as her isn't heavily motivated to do all of this because she is hoping to get the bungalow.


    I don't know if this is worth reporting but anyone would suspect this wouldn't they?? What does next of kin actually mean as well? She is this. I guess it means nothing, being on the will is what gets you the money.


    I live in Bournemouth and for the UK the salaries and availability of jobs is average; they're not great. There are lots of people on pretty low salaries here, however the house prices (because it's a nice area) are high. This leads to a culture of people pretending to be wealthier when they're actually skint. TA salary- 16,000. House price 500,000 I would guess.


    I only get 10 for an hours work a week. Laughable really, but I just do it because she let's me use her garage to store my gardening equipment for other jobs so I am happy to do lots of poorly paid odd jobs for her which no one else would for the money she pays.


    I also (probably similar to the '50s inheritance woman') also care a bit about the German lady because I have known her for so long. And despite being completely nuts and difficult at times has been very warm to me occasionally. But being practical ( I have a child to support) I wouldn't work for 10 a week if I didn't have the storage perk. And I suspect the inheritance woman doesn't have much money herself and is also being practical and hoping for a much bigger reward after all her caring!
    Last edited by applepicker; 17-03-2017 at 11:32 PM.
    • Bath cube
    • By Bath cube 17th Mar 17, 11:44 PM
    • 155 Posts
    • 76 Thanks
    Bath cube
    Court of protection
    Apple picker have you heard about the lady who was jailed because she wouldn't comply with social services?. if you google Manuel Martins social services the full story will be online. It is very sad and thought provoking. Maybe the couple don't want to see the old lady being placed in a home if they ceased their contact with her.
    • applepicker
    • By applepicker 17th Mar 17, 11:50 PM
    • 147 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    applepicker
    I agree people can be nice, and actually usually are but i have highlighted the words 'feel' and 'suspect' that you quoted because, actually, that is when you should report your concerns.

    Perhaps having worked in youth services and now the NHS my view is skwewed.
    They ask that you report/flag 'feelings' and 'suspicions' because when multiple people dont , the numerous people that had nothing more than 'feelings' and 'suspicions' dont add to the bigger, concerning picture of possible abuse/coercion etc....usually gets reported in the news about children rather than the elderly but doesnt mean its any less prevalent.

    That said, youre not an agency with safeguarding obligations and be careful of listening to gossip and also letting your own possible dislike of someone skew your thought process as to their motives.
    Originally posted by Scrimps

    If I reported this the German lady would just say she's my good friend etc etc and is currently in poor health, but she's mentally tough. But I guess they would find out about all the money management and the changing of the will (if that's happened.) I guess it wouldn't hurt just to ask them anonymously.
    • lobbyludd
    • By lobbyludd 18th Mar 17, 1:08 AM
    • 1,243 Posts
    • 10,639 Thanks
    lobbyludd
    I don't personally see any issue here with the situation you describe.

    However I am not seeing it first-hand and we should always err on the side of caution and report situations where we feel uncomfortable. Too many of us in the past have not reported situations that have left vulnerable people in terrible danger.

    once you have reported your feelings, however, I would caution you to be very careful about talking to anyone else (other than the authorities you have spoken to) about your theories.

    There is a danger that we can assign motives to another person's actions based on our own way of doing or thinking about things that are completely wrong. In this case it appears that it is the motives of the person you suspect, not their actions, (you don't believe she is being physically or mentally harmed?) so report it, leave it to the experts to investigate and if they find no case to answer - accept that you don't know the whole story here and leave them be.
    A/give up smoking (done)
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 18th Mar 17, 7:36 AM
    • 18,023 Posts
    • 45,931 Thanks
    Pollycat
    Yes, I think she should be in a care home now. Although she's so stubborn she wouldn't want to go and loves her house. Recently she broke her hip and has just got back to house. Social services assessed that she needs two carers to visit everyday now. The '50s' woman still visits as well.
    Originally posted by applepicker
    But it doesn't matter what you think.
    If Social Services have said she needs 2 carers per day why do you think you know better than them?
    Your statement above sounds incredibly arrogant.
    You are her gardener.
    Not her carer.
    Not her doctor.
    Not Social Services.

    Another reason I don't like her is after I sorted the recycling bins on my credit card I went around to get the cash and she said 'can't you get it next week'. She is difficult about paying and questions things and is condescending despite the fact that I go out of my way to do stuff.
    Originally posted by applepicker
    It's possible that this woman's attitude towards you is because she knows you were gossiping with the cleaner.
    Tell her 'Money is due on day of work or no work'.

    I don't know if this is worth reporting but anyone would suspect this wouldn't they?? What does next of kin actually mean as well? She is this. I guess it means nothing, being on the will is what gets you the money.
    Originally posted by applepicker
    You have no idea who is or isn't named on the will.
    And is it really any of your business?

    I live in Bournemouth and for the UK the salaries and availability of jobs is average; they're not great. There are lots of people on pretty low salaries here, however the house prices (because it's a nice area) are high. This leads to a culture of people pretending to be wealthier when they're actually skint. TA salary- 16,000. House price 500,000 I would guess.
    Originally posted by applepicker
    And this has to do with the 90 year old lady because......?

    I only get 10 for an hours work a week. Laughable really, but I just do it because she let's me use her garage to store my gardening equipment for other jobs so I am happy to do lots of poorly paid odd jobs for her which no one else would for the money she pays.
    Originally posted by applepicker
    If you're not happy with the payment you are getting for the work you are doing, don't do it.

    I also (probably similar to the '50s inheritance woman') also care a bit about the German lady because I have known her for so long. And despite being completely nuts and difficult at times has been very warm to me occasionally. But being practical ( I have a child to support) I wouldn't work for 10 a week if I didn't have the storage perk. And I suspect the inheritance woman doesn't have much money herself and is also being practical and hoping for a much bigger reward after all her caring!
    Originally posted by applepicker
    You have no idea how much or how little this lady's friend has.
    You have no idea what expectations she has for a 'reward' for the time she spends with this old lady.

    If you really do feel that the old lady is at risk, report her.
    But don't do it because you think somebody may be getting some money out of it when she dies, do it because you have a genuine concern that she is being taken advantage of.
    • troubleinparadise
    • By troubleinparadise 18th Mar 17, 9:31 AM
    • 975 Posts
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    troubleinparadise
    It may be that the 50s lady does have designs on the old lady's money - but if the old lady has no-one else in her life and is enjoying the company and support, then why shouldn't she choose to leave her money to the younger lady?

    I had a terminally ill acquaintance in her 50s who had a small coterie of friends who self-elected to "take care of her", and were hostile to others. As it was, for several years the ill lady enjoyed their guardianship, used their efforts very cheerfully, although sadly none of them were available to hands-on nurse her in her last few months at home (funny that), and they did receive bequests of 5,000 from her will. The rest of the 1m went to a bird charity....

    I'm sure she was well aware of what was going on, but it suited her; whether they were simply very grateful for the windfall they received I don't know, but there is a bit of me that wonders who gained the most from those friendships!

    If you are concerned for the old lady's welfare, you can report it to Social Services, or google Elder Abuse for more groups that give support in such situations. Sometimes gut instinct is spot on...
    • takman
    • By takman 18th Mar 17, 10:05 AM
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    • 2,261 Thanks
    takman
    I only get 10 for an hours work a week. Laughable really, but I just do it because she let's me use her garage to store my gardening equipment for other jobs so I am happy to do lots of poorly paid odd jobs for her which no one else would for the money she pays.


    I also (probably similar to the '50s inheritance woman') also care a bit about the German lady because I have known her for so long. And despite being completely nuts and difficult at times has been very warm to me occasionally. But being practical ( I have a child to support) I wouldn't work for 10 a week if I didn't have the storage perk. And I suspect the inheritance woman doesn't have much money herself and is also being practical and hoping for a much bigger reward after all her caring!
    Originally posted by applepicker
    So your only helping her out doing these jobs so she continues to let you store your equipment. But if she stopped letting you store your equipment you wouldn't do it anymore?.

    So that's exactly the kind of thing your saying the "inheritance woman" is doing, just on a bigger scale. (Without any evidence)

    So what makes it okay for you to do it but not her ?
    • margaretclare
    • By margaretclare 18th Mar 17, 10:13 AM
    • 10,257 Posts
    • 17,051 Thanks
    margaretclare
    Yes, I think she should be in a care home now. Although she's so stubborn she wouldn't want to go and loves her house. Recently she broke her hip and has just got back to house. Social services assessed that she needs two carers to visit everyday now.
    Originally posted by applepicker
    Thank the Lord, we don't yet live in the kind of society where a person can be forced to go into a care home just because applepicker thinks they should.

    This kind of remark makes my blood boil.

    The lady in question has been assessed as needing a 'care package' of 2 carer visits daily. Don't forget, she's paying for this. Every one of those visits - that's 2 x 7 weekly - will be costing her money. If she loves her home and wants to stay in it, it is no one else's business.

    All the stuff about Hitler etc is totally irrelevant.

    Just because someone is in the later stages of life and has a certain amount of this world's goods, people seem to feel it is their business to write about it on a public forum. What happened to 'live and let live'?
    r ic wisdom funde, r wear ic eald.
    Before I found wisdom, I became old.
    • globetraveller
    • By globetraveller 18th Mar 17, 10:15 AM
    • 2,057 Posts
    • 11,844 Thanks
    globetraveller
    She has 2 carers who go into the house and see the lady. They would report her companion if they could see any concerns.
    Perhaps you don't know the real reason the cleaner was sacked. You only have her version of events. Perhaps the companion suspects that you are in it for the money.
    If you report this lady - have you thought of all the consequences? Perhaps the companion is innocent but told to stay away during the investigation. You may actually make this 500 000 pound householder miserable in the last days of her life.
    If the lady is happy and the carers don't see anything to worry about, then that must be enough.
    weight loss target 23lbs/49lb
    • margaretclare
    • By margaretclare 18th Mar 17, 10:18 AM
    • 10,257 Posts
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    margaretclare
    The OP says the lady is 90. So born in 1926 or 1927. So 18 in May 1945. And presumably still in school
    Originally posted by barbarawright
    They used to leave school earlier in those days. They didn't necessarily stay on routinely to age 18.

    I myself left school at 16 in 1951, as did my DH. We could legally have left at 15. I don't know what they did in Germany.
    r ic wisdom funde, r wear ic eald.
    Before I found wisdom, I became old.
    • applepicker
    • By applepicker 19th Mar 17, 10:45 PM
    • 147 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    applepicker
    She has 2 carers who go into the house and see the lady. They would report her companion if they could see any concerns.
    Perhaps you don't know the real reason the cleaner was sacked. You only have her version of events. Perhaps the companion suspects that you are in it for the money.
    If you report this lady - have you thought of all the consequences? Perhaps the companion is innocent but told to stay away during the investigation. You may actually make this 500 000 pound householder miserable in the last days of her life.
    If the lady is happy and the carers don't see anything to worry about, then that must be enough.
    Originally posted by globetraveller

    True. She would be sad without the company. She has another friend but the more friends the better.


    The carers won't work it out any time soon. It took me ages to find everything out. All the neighbours thought she was the carer, and she's been going there for 8 years. Both neighbours thought it! The whole cul-de-sac must think it. I found out she's next of kin and managing the money from the cleaner (who worked there for 15 years ). She got me fired 3 years ago for a year. Come on of course she's after the money!!
    • applepicker
    • By applepicker 19th Mar 17, 10:48 PM
    • 147 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    applepicker
    She has 2 carers who go into the house and see the lady. They would report her companion if they could see any concerns.
    Perhaps you don't know the real reason the cleaner was sacked. You only have her version of events. Perhaps the companion suspects that you are in it for the money.
    If you report this lady - have you thought of all the consequences? Perhaps the companion is innocent but told to stay away during the investigation. You may actually make this 500 000 pound householder miserable in the last days of her life.
    If the lady is happy and the carers don't see anything to worry about, then that must be enough.
    Originally posted by globetraveller

    The cleaner quit over not being paid enough. Then there was accusations of stealing and the inheritance woman was a witness. She had been going through the drawers to find the will, I guess to know if the inheritance woman was going to get it all.
    • applepicker
    • By applepicker 19th Mar 17, 11:01 PM
    • 147 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    applepicker
    I just find it annoying when the German lady says how wonderful she is and that she does everything for no money and that she's a teacher when technically she's a TA (anyone can do this). The German lady wouldn't understand that. So she's lying. How she used to be a nurse, that she's a good sweeper of paths lol can use computers and is just so wonderful. That she does everything for no money and doesn't want anything. Then I find out from the cleaner and the inheritance woman that she's the next of kin not from the German lady. That the husband of the inheritance lady (who's an estate agent and gardener) is wonderful because he still tries to do her financial accounts. The last time I spoke to the inheritance lady it was the usual cold chat- I asked how she was and she straight away said- yes, I guess you are worried about your stuff in garage- a nice person would have assumed I was concerned about her health as well as that. But she straight away assumed the worst about me. Why... Because it takes one to know one. That's how she thinks and so assumes other people are like it. She also questioned me whether I was ripping the old lady off over a poxy 10 (which I wasn't and never have). Why does she do this- because she's deceptive and assumes others are. A nice person wouldn't be questioning this. There are a thousand examples of things she's said and done which just make my instincts say she's after the money.


    As someone who has travelled for years as well. I understand people from other cultures quite well. And it's very difficult to understand the complexities of people from a different culture if you didn't grow up there. The German lady is a classic example. Even though she's lived in the UK for over 60 years. She's never worked here and just relied on her English husband (he died 15 years ago). Like many people in the UK who spent the first 25 years in another country she finds it very difficult to work out all the different types of people you meet in this country. From the different classes and parts of Britain and how these affect their personalities. This makes someone like her very easily manipulated.


    The inheritance woman met her when her and her husband knocked on her door 10 years ago as two gardeners. I suspect she spotted the German lady's naivety and has been plotting ever since!
    Last edited by applepicker; 19-03-2017 at 11:15 PM.
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