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  • FIRST POST
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 20th Feb 17, 11:59 AM
    • 838Posts
    • 247Thanks
    rockingbilly
    Fun & Games - PIP
    • #1
    • 20th Feb 17, 11:59 AM
    Fun & Games - PIP 20th Feb 17 at 11:59 AM
    Just had a letter from the DWP telling me that my DLA award is now suspended because I have not returned the PIP2.
    The form was sent to them on the 9th Feb - it was due back by the 12th. I paid 7.20 for Special Delivery as well and have a printed copy of when and who signed for it at 5.32am on the 10th Feb
    Anyhow just put the phone down on them and they say that the form is not in their office.
    My DLA will remain suspended until such time as the form is returned by the 12th March.

    Should I just hold fire and wait and see what happens? I don't have a form to fill in nor do I have the evidence that went with the original form?

    I'm sure that they are trying to make my life hell but I wont let them. Quite honestly I don't particularly care if I get the award or if they refuse to reinstate my DLA - I'll drop in a claim for Attendance Allowance instead.
Page 1
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 20th Feb 17, 12:39 PM
    • 798 Posts
    • 816 Thanks
    NeilCr
    • #2
    • 20th Feb 17, 12:39 PM
    • #2
    • 20th Feb 17, 12:39 PM
    For anyone else who gets into this position rule 1 is to make a copy of any form you send off - and the evidence.

    In your situation I'd be on their case with the information re signature of receipt.

    No-one's trying to make your life hell - these things happen in all offices.
    • venison
    • By venison 20th Feb 17, 2:47 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 793 Thanks
    venison
    • #3
    • 20th Feb 17, 2:47 PM
    • #3
    • 20th Feb 17, 2:47 PM
    The DWP once advised me NEVER to use special delivery but just to get a proof of postage (which is free btw)
    #WeStandTogether
    • Tommo1980
    • By Tommo1980 20th Feb 17, 3:29 PM
    • 288 Posts
    • 367 Thanks
    Tommo1980
    • #4
    • 20th Feb 17, 3:29 PM
    • #4
    • 20th Feb 17, 3:29 PM
    Second chance to do the form properly??

    Just ask for another one to be sent out.

    Should be easy enough to get copies of supporting evidence from GP etc. Everything will be kept on file.

    Tom
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 20th Feb 17, 3:42 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    • #5
    • 20th Feb 17, 3:42 PM
    • #5
    • 20th Feb 17, 3:42 PM
    The DWP once advised me NEVER to use special delivery but just to get a proof of postage (which is free btw)
    Originally posted by venison
    There are many people on these forums that say the opposite - always use Special Delivery.

    I got caught one with the DWP years ago when I just used to get a 'proof of posting'

    They said at the time that it wasn't proof of delivery, so I should take it up with the post office as it is lost mail by them.
    That was back in 2004 when the 'letter' was a formal appeal notice against a bad DWP decision. By the time I got round to doing a new one and sending it by recorded delivery this time I was out of the 30 day appeal time. They wouldn't accept a late appeal as the excuse I I gave - 'well it's not my fault that the post office lose mail is it?' was not acceptable.
    That exercise lost me quite a bit of money.
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 20th Feb 17, 3:46 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    • #6
    • 20th Feb 17, 3:46 PM
    • #6
    • 20th Feb 17, 3:46 PM
    Second chance to do the form properly??

    Just ask for another one to be sent out.

    Should be easy enough to get copies of supporting evidence from GP etc. Everything will be kept on file.

    Tom
    Originally posted by Tommo1980
    Good idea, I will send them a letter tonight requesting a new form.
    Evidence, not really, what I had came from many NHS sources and up and down the country. Don't fancy having to write to all of them asking for a copy, some of which are 4/5 pages long and go back to 2011. But I will have a scout round to see if there is more evidence in my boxes from other places that I could use.
    • iammumtoone
    • By iammumtoone 20th Feb 17, 4:43 PM
    • 4,623 Posts
    • 9,747 Thanks
    iammumtoone
    • #7
    • 20th Feb 17, 4:43 PM
    • #7
    • 20th Feb 17, 4:43 PM
    I would get back on to them and send in a copy of who signed for it and when, ask them to check with that person what they have done with it.

    Post/deliveries go missing all the time in my workplace the above normally sorts it out.

    I don't know anything about these forms but you don't want to damage your claim when you fill the second one out if you answer different to the first one. I doubt if the first one turned up they would bother to cross reference but you never know.
    Sealed pot challenge ~ 10 #017
    Declutter 2017 items in 2017 - 78/2017

    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 20th Feb 17, 4:52 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    • #8
    • 20th Feb 17, 4:52 PM
    • #8
    • 20th Feb 17, 4:52 PM
    I would get back on to them and send in a copy of who signed for it and when, ask them to check with that person what they have done with it.

    Post/deliveries go missing all the time in my workplace the above normally sorts it out.

    I don't know anything about these forms but you don't want to damage your claim when you fill the second one out if you answer different to the first one. I doubt if the first one turned up they would bother to cross reference but you never know.
    Originally posted by iammumtoone
    Good point, I didn't think of that.

    Ok letter off tomorrow enclosing the signed for sheet. It was signed at 5.32am by somebody called 'Turner'. I didn't know that the DWP started so early.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 20th Feb 17, 5:25 PM
    • 789 Posts
    • 662 Thanks
    poppy12345
    • #9
    • 20th Feb 17, 5:25 PM
    • #9
    • 20th Feb 17, 5:25 PM
    A few points to remember here.
    1...Never send anything to DWP "special delivery" just because it's been signed for doesn't mean it's arrived at the correct department! Until it's arrived at the correct department it's classed as not being there. Proof of posting is enough. 3 days to arrive at the correct department isn't enough. I read very recently that "special delivery" can take longer. If i can find this link i'll post it later.
    2.. always send copies not originals of anything you send them. This way you have a copy for yourself if things like this happen.
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 20th Feb 17, 5:44 PM
    • 7,505 Posts
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    teddysmum
    I would question who signed at such an early hour (well before offices open), as it's likely to be a security person who forgot to pass it on...or the postman forging a signature, to save himself the hassle of returning .
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 20th Feb 17, 5:56 PM
    • 789 Posts
    • 662 Thanks
    poppy12345
    I would question who signed at such an early hour (well before offices open), as it's likely to be a security person who forgot to pass it on...or the postman forging a signature, to save himself the hassle of returning .
    Originally posted by teddysmum
    Exactly, it probably wasn't even someone from DWP.
    • iammumtoone
    • By iammumtoone 20th Feb 17, 5:59 PM
    • 4,623 Posts
    • 9,747 Thanks
    iammumtoone
    A few points to remember here.
    1...Never send anything to DWP "special delivery" just because it's been signed for doesn't mean it's arrived at the correct department! No but it means it got to the building Until it's arrived at the correct department it's classed as not being there. Proof of posting is enough. All that proves is you sent it, not that it arrived
    Originally posted by poppy12345
    I do get what you are saying if it goes in standard post it arrives at the right department as the post will have been sorted by someone who knows the system and its their job to distribute post. If the postman has to find someone to sign for it that could be anyone who is unaware of where it needs to go/too lazy to take it as its not their job!

    The DWP seem to have a get out clause whatever method you choose.
    Sealed pot challenge ~ 10 #017
    Declutter 2017 items in 2017 - 78/2017

    • anmarj
    • By anmarj 20th Feb 17, 7:32 PM
    • 1,556 Posts
    • 1,220 Thanks
    anmarj
    I would question who signed at such an early hour (well before offices open), as it's likely to be a security person who forgot to pass it on...or the postman forging a signature, to save himself the hassle of returning .
    Originally posted by teddysmum

    Mail goes to a mail opening unit usually situated a long away from the office, especially if they are using scanned mail, that goes to an address in Wolverhampton and the sat in a pile waiting to be scanned in.
    mummy to one

    "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
    • tomtom256
    • By tomtom256 20th Feb 17, 7:33 PM
    • 794 Posts
    • 1,474 Thanks
    tomtom256
    All DWP mail goes to a mail opening unit and is opened and sorted there, before either being scanned or posted to the relevant section.

    It can be anything from 10 - 15 days to arrive at the actual office its meant for after being received at the opening unit.
    • xXMessedUpXx
    • By xXMessedUpXx 20th Feb 17, 11:33 PM
    • 16,897 Posts
    • 44,369 Thanks
    xXMessedUpXx
    All DWP mail goes to a mail opening unit and is opened and sorted there, before either being scanned or posted to the relevant section.

    It can be anything from 10 - 15 days to arrive at the actual office its meant for after being received at the opening unit.
    Originally posted by tomtom256
    There has been a huge increased in this kind of thing happening accroding to an advocate group i know of. Basically royal mail are opening it and its either being lost or not sent on. Unfortunately the onus is on the individual to prove they sent it.
    "Life Is Like A Beautiful Melody Only The Lyrics Are Messed Up"
    To see the rainbow you need both the sun and the rain to make its colours appear
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    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 21st Feb 17, 11:57 AM
    • 838 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    Unfortunately the onus is on the individual to prove they sent it.
    Originally posted by xXMessedUpXx
    Proving that it was posted/sent does not give you a get out of jail card. I have been down this road before when using the proof of postage system.

    As told to me by the DWP when I complained a few years ago:

    The DWP are well within their rights to say that until it appears on their computer system it has not been received - as such they can and do invoke sanctions on the claimant for failing to ensure receipt by them within the time frame allowed. That does not mean that you can post a letter 24 hours before the deadline and say that you discharged your responsibility. The time limits are there for the DWP to have received it by NOT for the claimant to have posted it by.

    I have been told by the DWP in the past that proof of posting does not prove receipt. The contract the claimant has is with the Post Office to deliver it - that is what you will be told by the DWP - take it up with the PO.
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 8th Mar 17, 1:07 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    UPDATE::

    The DWP have admitted that my PIP2 and evidence bundle had been received. In the same letter received today they inform me that I have not been successful in my PIP transfer. They also go on to state that the DLA money that was suspended will now not be paid to me as there is no regulation that allows them to do so.
    I have not had a face to face assessment so presumably they made the decision based on what I had sent them only.

    Need now to get their papers to show how they came to that decision.

    All I know is that the way the system has worked for me has left me shafted! Going from HRM & MRC - DLA to nothing is nothing more than I expected given everything that has happened.
    Last edited by rockingbilly; 08-03-2017 at 1:11 PM.
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 8th Mar 17, 8:52 PM
    • 9,670 Posts
    • 17,806 Thanks
    Muttleythefrog
    UPDATE::

    The DWP have admitted that my PIP2 and evidence bundle had been received. In the same letter received today they inform me that I have not been successful in my PIP transfer. They also go on to state that the DLA money that was suspended will now not be paid to me as there is no regulation that allows them to do so.
    I have not had a face to face assessment so presumably they made the decision based on what I had sent them only.

    Need now to get their papers to show how they came to that decision.

    All I know is that the way the system has worked for me has left me shafted! Going from HRM & MRC - DLA to nothing is nothing more than I expected given everything that has happened.
    Originally posted by rockingbilly
    Yes I'd call them up for clarity (if you feel you don't have it) and get the evidence they used (which could involve a report from the private medical contractors... albeit not from face to face medical) and their decision details. This sounds like far from the end of this story. Administratively they can be chaotic... I am assuming they have made it clear to you that your claim for PIP has failed following study of your PIP2 form and other documentation... but it is possible they haven't. It's all a bit unclear... because I am not familiar with the 'failed PIP transfer' type letter (I'd have expected more detail explaining decision)... but it sounds like you have significant disabilities... of course they don't necessarily translate from successful DLA claim to successfully PIP claim and the criteria and methodology for assessment is very different. But clarifications are needed... that a genuine decision has been made and is nonsense... if so reconsideration can be made. Keep us updated.
    Last edited by Muttleythefrog; 08-03-2017 at 8:57 PM.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • Confuseddot
    • By Confuseddot 8th Mar 17, 10:38 PM
    • 1,666 Posts
    • 2,630 Thanks
    Confuseddot
    They can't deny you on paper based only.
    Play nice Just because I am paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get me.
    • Tolly_T
    • By Tolly_T 8th Mar 17, 11:54 PM
    • 120 Posts
    • 105 Thanks
    Tolly_T
    They can turn you down for PIP without a face to face. They can't for ESA - maybe that's what you're thinking about Confuseddot..
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