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  • FIRST POST
    • BettyBoof
    • By BettyBoof 9th Feb 17, 5:34 PM
    • 242Posts
    • 1,504Thanks
    BettyBoof
    Micro Investing
    • #1
    • 9th Feb 17, 5:34 PM
    Micro Investing 9th Feb 17 at 5:34 PM
    Hi, apologies if this has been asked before but a search didn't throw any threads up.

    Do any of you use M0ney B0x or similar to micro invest? You link the app to your debit card and then every time you spend money it gets rounded up and invested. E.g. a 1.80 coffee will get rounded up to 2 and the 20p will be set aside to be invested.

    I'm only just looking into it and I think it's fairly new so wondered if anyone had any experience of investing this way? It sounds like a fun and easy way to save without needing huge sums to get started but I'm wondering if the small amounts will make it worth it?
Page 3
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 20th Mar 17, 7:59 AM
    • 7,674 Posts
    • 8,287 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    You dont need to use a high charges investment broker in order to criticise it !!

    Plenty of people here for example might say "dont use NPower its charges are much higher than Acme Energy" and I've never yet seen a response in the Energy Saving forum here along the lines of "well you haven't used NPower so how do you know?"

    In the same way, when its clear that a scheme that offers to send your pennies to a broker is high cost and can be replicated cheaper by simply saving a fixed amount each month, thats fair game to criticise it on the same grounss as NPower.

    I dont need to have direct experience of my Latte being bumped up from 1.73 to 2 and being charged 1 for the privilege of saving the 23p bump (a theoretical possibility) to know its a poor choice.

    Nor do I need to have experience of saving maybe 10 a month to work out that, in the scheme of things, it ain't worth a hill of beans,




    especially if I am charged 1 for that tenner.
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 20th Mar 17, 9:29 AM
    • 3,279 Posts
    • 842 Thanks
    Anthorn
    You dont need to use a high charges investment broker in order to criticise
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    But you missed my point they are not criticising Moneybox or even Micro Investing in general, they are criticising me! The topic contained in the OP is very clear, if you've used it tell me about it.

    In the same way, when its clear that a scheme that offers to send your pennies to a broker is high cost and can be replicated cheaper by simply saving a fixed amount each month
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    What is glaringly clear to me is that you don't understand it. Perhaps if you used it and got some experience of it you might begin to understand it: Not saving a fixed amount every month and saving pennies that are not missed is what it's all about.

    The immense amount of pedantry in this thread does however quite considerably stifle discussion. Those who actually use the app, have experience of it and therefore have something constructive to contribute are not going to do that for fear of being shot down. Actual censorship could not do better.

    I've already posted links to qualified reviews of Moneybox. Read back. No don't tell me: The F.T. is writing rubbish but only because it is writing about Moneybox lol

    Here's that link again:
    https://www.ft.com/content/14dc379a-6ac7-11e6-a0b1-d87a9fea034f
    Last edited by Anthorn; 20-03-2017 at 10:09 AM. Reason: Last paragraph added
    • Gadfium
    • By Gadfium 20th Mar 17, 10:23 AM
    • 628 Posts
    • 1,169 Thanks
    Gadfium
    Those who actually use the app, have experience of it and therefore have something constructive to contribute are not going to do that for fear of being shot down. Actual censorship could not do better.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    Really? Or is that just you and your butthurt?
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 20th Mar 17, 10:30 AM
    • 3,279 Posts
    • 842 Thanks
    Anthorn
    Really? Or is that just you and your butthurt?
    Originally posted by Gadfium
    Well, that post makes a lot more sense than most of the previous posts I've read lol.

    butthurt:

    adjective
    1 overly or unjustifiably offended or resentful.
    "they're all butthurt that she released the album online first"

    noun
    1 an excessive or unjustifiable feeling of personal offence or resentment.
    "it's time to get over the butthurt from last year's playoffs

    I don't think "butthurt" applies to me.
    • Gadfium
    • By Gadfium 20th Mar 17, 10:52 AM
    • 628 Posts
    • 1,169 Thanks
    Gadfium
    Well, that post makes a lot more sense than most of the previous posts I've read lol.

    butthurt:
    overly or unjustifiably offended or resentful.

    an excessive or unjustifiable feeling of personal offence or resentment.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    I rest my case


    I don't think "butthurt" applies to me.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    Think again. Take all the time that you need.
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 20th Mar 17, 11:02 AM
    • 6,997 Posts
    • 12,595 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    I've already posted links to qualified reviews of Moneybox. Read back. No don't tell me: The F.T. is writing rubbish but only because it is writing about Moneybox lol

    Here's that link again:
    https://www.ft.com/content/14dc379a-6ac7-11e6-a0b1-d87a9fea034f
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    Yes, you posted that in post #39 as an example of a "review". I replied in post 40.

    It is not a review. It is lightweight comment on a new product that was about to launch, accompanied by quotes from the founders about why they think it is good. It is written from a press release and those comments from the business owners. The only piece of independent thought to provide some balance within it, is one comment from a consumer group to provide some balance that only investing small amounts per the USP will see your funds eaten by charges and you are likely better off using high interest cash accounts or investing more material amounts of money properly.

    Due to the date of the article, at press release time, and it being about a new product "launching this week" it is clearly not a hands on proper review of user experience or customer service quality, it is regurgitation of marketing material. Yet you say above that you will not accept any of our comments because we are not hands on users and you must experience it for your opinions to be worth anything.

    So, is the FT piece worth anything in that context? No, it just tells you how the product works according to their marketing. Oh, aside from the bit of balance from the guy from the consumer group that points out the cost disadvantages

    Please don't post the other "review" links again, which have already been commented on, or the Wikipedia article again which you have done twice now. Certainly don't do that and them moan that we are just repeating ourselves, because that's on you.
    Last edited by bowlhead99; 20-03-2017 at 12:29 PM.
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 20th Mar 17, 12:37 PM
    • 3,279 Posts
    • 842 Thanks
    Anthorn
    Yes, you posted that in post #39 as an example or a "review". I replied in post 40.

    It is not a review. It is lightweight comment on a new product that was about to launch, accompanied by quotes from the founders about why they think it is good. It is written from a press release and those comments from the business owners. The only piece of independent thought to provide some balance within it, is one comment from a consumer group to provide some balance that days investing small amounts will see your friends eaten by charges and you are likely better off using high interest cash accounts or investing more material amounts of money properly.

    Due to the date of the article, at press release time, and it being about a new product "launching this week" it is clearly not a hands on proper review of user experience or customer service quality, it is regurgitation of marketing material. Yet you say above that you will not accept any of our comments because we are not hands on users and you must experience it for your opinions to be worth anything.

    So, is the FT piece worth anything in that context? No, it just tells you how the product works according to their marketing. Oh, aside from the bit of balance from the guy from the consumer group that points out the cost disadvantages

    Please don't post the other "review" links again, which have already been commented on, or the Wikipedia article again which you have done twice now. Certainly don't do that and them moan that we are just repeating ourselves, because that's on you.
    Originally posted by bowlhead99
    You get yet another ROFL: ROFL. You ask a question regarding the FT article and then answer it yourself. Does that mean no-one else is qualified to answer the question? If you meant it as a rhetorical question then it should not have included a question mark.

    In one breath the FT article is seen as invalid but on the other hand valid because it includes a criticism of the cost disadvantage. Which is it? Valid or invalid?

    I agree the FT article is not a hands on review. But in this thread only my posts represent a hands-on review. No-one else has used it. So by your own standards it's wrong to regard the FT article as authoritative but right that people in this thread who have never used it be regarded as authoritative.

    Lastly where is your authority to censor my posts by limiting what I may post? However in fact the only reason to censor is to stifle open discussion and I've already referred to that in a previous post. Perhaps I just have to agree with you and everyone else and you would be fine with that. But the very simple fact is that I just don't agree! I use moneybox, I find it useful and I post my reasons for finding it useful.
    • jimjames
    • By jimjames 20th Mar 17, 12:54 PM
    • 12,237 Posts
    • 10,774 Thanks
    jimjames
    What Moneybox is about is helping people who don't have the money to save, to save.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    Except here you're not talking about saving, you're talking about investing which is very different. Maybe rounding pennies does help some people to save and maybe it works well for people who work in that way. However investing is very different and pointless if you are scraping pennies together. Get a suitable emergency fund built up and then look at investing properly with a decent platform that doesn't charge a fortune.
    I use moneybox, I find it useful and I post my reasons for finding it useful.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    That's entirely your prerogative, if you find it useful then they've got a happy customer but it doesn't change the facts about costs.

    Equally some people find buying fuel on the motorway to be useful to them. It still doesn't change the fact that it's not money saving to pay 20p+ more per litre which is what this site is meant to be about.
    Last edited by jimjames; 20-03-2017 at 12:58 PM.
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 20th Mar 17, 1:19 PM
    • 3,279 Posts
    • 842 Thanks
    Anthorn
    Except here you're not talking about saving, you're talking about investing which is very different.
    Originally posted by jimjames
    No: You've already quoted me saying "save".

    Let me try a different tack. (sailing term). Wasting my breath I know but there you go.

    You are receiving a good income but the demands on it such as mortgage, pension and living expenses uses up all of the income. That makes you cash-poor which means you cannot save even if you wanted to because you cannot spare any capital and you cannot set aside regular amounts to save. That's where Moneybox comes in.

    For some odd reason Millennials are seen to be representative of that group and I don't really see the reason behind that. In my view anyone can be cash-poor. However it's not only micro-investing which targets Millennials: New forms of bank account which incorporate the means to cope with tight budgets on the go are also launched or ready to launch. For example there is B from CYBG working from a mobile app and Starling Bank which is already in the throes of a beta release and working from a mobile app. I expect to get the Starling beta in due course and I already have B.

    Lastly, Moneybox actually focuses on two groups: The first as already outlined is cash-poor Millennials. The second is first-time investors. I should think that those new investors who cut their teeth on Moneybox will eventually progress to other means of investing. Doesn't apply to me though because I'm already there. What makes Moneybox good for new investors is that it's automatic, a no-brainer. But from the very first day of using Moneybox new investors are going to have contract notes, they are going to get a projected return and they are going to be able to relate that projected return to their own investments and be able to calculate it for themselves. In a few words, "hands-on experience" which in my view is priceless.

    So there you go. I've tried.
    Last edited by Anthorn; 20-03-2017 at 1:45 PM.
    • JohnRo
    • By JohnRo 20th Mar 17, 1:36 PM
    • 2,482 Posts
    • 2,230 Thanks
    JohnRo
    Moth to a flame.
    'We don't need to be smarter than the rest; we need to be more disciplined than the rest.' - WB
    • justme111
    • By justme111 20th Mar 17, 1:37 PM
    • 2,878 Posts
    • 2,764 Thanks
    justme111
    Dear habitual MSE contributors, here you got argumentative millennial, treat him as such, do not get wound up as you should know better
    Dear Anthorn, I think everybody understands perfectly what you or someone else may like about the app and its motivational and educational and fun purposes. They just point out that it makes no financial sense. Which you refuse to accept because you are itching to argue.
    (goes away mumbling : " for some reason"... "cash poor millennials")
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 20th Mar 17, 2:29 PM
    • 3,279 Posts
    • 842 Thanks
    Anthorn
    Dear habitual MSE contributors, here you got argumentative millennial, treat him as such, do not get wound up as you should know better
    Dear Anthorn, I think everybody understands perfectly what you or someone else may like about the app and its motivational and educational and fun purposes. They just point out that it makes no financial sense. Which you refuse to accept because you are itching to argue.
    (goes away mumbling : " for some reason"... "cash poor millennials")
    Originally posted by justme111
    And yet another jumps on the pedantic bandwagon.

    A "Millennial" is someone who reached adulthood in the year 2000. If you had bothered to access my profile you would have seen that I'm "retired". Actually 66 years old and drawing down my pension: btw that has nothing to do with crayons

    The point about cost has been said over and over and over and harped on and on and on about. I don't see the necessity for repeating it when I've already dismissed it. But in fact cost is the one and only objection to Moneybox and considering the very low amount of capital involved it's largely irrelevant.

    Cost is relative anyway: For example are we going to avoid a fund which will make us out first million just because it has charges which are triple that of other funds?
    • JohnRo
    • By JohnRo 20th Mar 17, 2:49 PM
    • 2,482 Posts
    • 2,230 Thanks
    JohnRo
    You're conflating two different things, what you invest in and how you then choose to fund your investment in it.

    The funds themselves and their internal charges are an irrelevance in the context of this thread, whether they make you your first million or not.

    The point you're utterly impervious to and apparently determined to ignore, is that using Moneybox will never get you to that first million before the much cheaper and far superior retail investment platforms will.

    Which then begs the question why bother using Moneybox, it's just a gimmick. Hold on, that sounds familiar.
    'We don't need to be smarter than the rest; we need to be more disciplined than the rest.' - WB
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 20th Mar 17, 3:12 PM
    • 3,279 Posts
    • 842 Thanks
    Anthorn
    You're conflating two different things, what you invest in and how you then choose to fund your investment in it.

    The funds themselves and their internal charges are an irrelevance in the context of this thread, whether they make you your first million or not.

    The point you're utterly impervious to and apparently determined to ignore, is that using Moneybox will never get you to that first million before the much cheaper and far superior retail investment platforms will.

    Which then begs the question why bother using Moneybox, it's just a gimmick. Hold on, that sounds familiar.
    Originally posted by JohnRo
    Just answer a question for me. What do you have to gain from trashing Moneybox?

    Re. your post: I've already dismissed as irrelevant what you and others say when you harp on and on and on about cost. So why repeat it over and over and over. It's just a waste of time. Much better to get the app and use it and then your comments based on experience will be more valid.

    But now you've expanded that into Moneybox not making me my first million wheras other methods might do that for me. Personally I'm happy with 6% p.a. You're obviously taking your lead from my hyperthetical example in a previous post ROFL.

    But if you know of a fund that will make me a million from a minimum investment of 1 per week do tell.

    btw you're very funny ROFL.
    Last edited by Anthorn; 20-03-2017 at 3:25 PM. Reason: last sentence added
    • JohnRo
    • By JohnRo 20th Mar 17, 3:29 PM
    • 2,482 Posts
    • 2,230 Thanks
    JohnRo
    For a 66 year old you sure do read like you're a heck of a lot younger, a heck of a lot.
    'We don't need to be smarter than the rest; we need to be more disciplined than the rest.' - WB
    • JohnRo
    • By JohnRo 20th Mar 17, 3:57 PM
    • 2,482 Posts
    • 2,230 Thanks
    JohnRo
    I'll settle for the poetic justice in all this nonsense you're spouting.

    I'm sure by now astute readers will have read enough to make their own minds up which is all that matters.
    'We don't need to be smarter than the rest; we need to be more disciplined than the rest.' - WB
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 20th Mar 17, 4:06 PM
    • 6,997 Posts
    • 12,595 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    For a 66 year old you sure do read like you're a heck of a lot younger, a heck of a lot.
    Originally posted by JohnRo
    In fairness he sounds like he is a 66 year old who has just discovered the acronym ROFL over twenty years later than everybody else who's closer to modern technology, assumes it's how everyone converses these days, and is itching to demonstrate that he is into all this newfangled technology stuff so will defend the new fintech innovations to the hilt.

    He promotes that persona of being close to technology by quickly looking up and posting definitions of "pedant", "butthurt" and "millennial" and providing some links multiple times to show he has a web browser just like the kids of today.

    I may be wrong though. No doubt he'll tell us.


    You get yet another ROFL: ROFL. You ask a question regarding the FT article and then answer it yourself. Does that mean no-one else is qualified to answer the question? If you meant it as a rhetorical question then it should not have included a question mark.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    My apologies for including a question mark. I'm sure we have each committed greater sins.

    In one breath the FT article is seen as invalid but on the other hand valid because it includes a criticism of the cost disadvantage. Which is it? Valid or invalid?
    It is invalid as a "review" because nobody within it is giving their opinion on how the service has performed and the people telling you what it is does are the founders, who are obviously somewhat biased on whether or not the service is good.

    However, if you contend that you didn't mean to say it was a review but merely an opinion piece, then we should disregard the biased opinions of the founders and only listen to the independent opinion within, who said it was overly expensive for investing small amounts of money, and you could/should consider cash instead.

    Either way, there is nothing in the FT piece to support the claim that it's a good value product other than the opinions of its founders, both who provided soundbites to go with their press release. If the OP reads that they will not learn anything other than what is in Moneybox's own website and press releases and the cost criticism that several people already put on this forum (and the previous thread which covered the same ground).

    Lastly where is your authority to censor my posts by limiting what I may post?
    Oh I get that from God Almighty, he passes on his kind regards.

    Perhaps I just have to agree with you and everyone else and you would be fine with that. But the very simple fact is that I just don't agree! I use moneybox, I find it useful and I post my reasons for finding it useful.
    Good for you. I hope you don't mind other people posting the reasons that someone might not find it useful, to help a person avoid a mistake by signing up to a gimmicky service before first hearing from experienced investors who could suggest viable alternatives.

    I don't care that I haven't used it. I haven't circumnavigated the globe in every direction but I am qualified to pass comment about flat earth vs globe and nice places to go on holiday, based on informed opinion. You are hell-bent on saying our opinions are invalid because we don't understand it. But how it works is easy to understand and the pricing and functionality information is public domain.

    So, one can form an opinion, to aid a less experienced and less cash rich investor understand the opportunities available from rival products, given you can't make new contributions into this product and also into another S&S ISA in the same financial year.
    Last edited by bowlhead99; 20-03-2017 at 10:25 PM. Reason: typo /autocorrect recorrected
    • justme111
    • By justme111 20th Mar 17, 4:25 PM
    • 2,878 Posts
    • 2,764 Thanks
    justme111
    I bet he searched for some profile of chap with similar name on Facebook and in reality he is a first year student .
    One can not survive to 65 if one does not understand that if someone is "cashpoor"( cute term, eh) to the extent of not being able to place a standing order for 25 a month while having "decent income", mortgage and outgoings then using an app that invests 10 a month for one is like trying to carry water in a sieve and to put it mildly is neither priority nor solution , it is like washing the dishes while the house is burning down.
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 20th Mar 17, 4:35 PM
    • 3,279 Posts
    • 842 Thanks
    Anthorn
    In fairness he sounds like he is a 66 year old
    Originally posted by bowlhead99
    That's a pretty safe bet considering I just posted a link to my facebook profile.

    I'm posting "ROFL" because that is actually what I'm doing. ROFL. Well, not actually rolling on the floor but you'll get the general idea idea I'm sure. Personally, I like to qualify my posts and I try to include the words "because" and "for example" and link to the proof whenever possible. That's what you're objecting to?

    I've cut the rest of your post due to there being not even a single, solitary qualification in there. It doesn't deserve a reply because it's It's mainly just an off-topic personal attack which incidentally displays you low intelligence.

    ROFL
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 20th Mar 17, 4:41 PM
    • 3,279 Posts
    • 842 Thanks
    Anthorn
    I bet he searched for some profile of chap with similar name on Facebook and in reality he is a first year student .
    One can not survive to 65 if one does not understand that if someone is "cashpoor"( cute term, eh) to the extent of not being able to place a standing order for 25 a month while having "decent income", mortgage and outgoings then using an app that invests 10 a month for one is like trying to carry water in a sieve and to put it mildly is neither priority nor solution , it is like washing the dishes while the house is burning down.
    Originally posted by justme111
    Go check out my Facebook profile again, in particular the status. Then look up the meaning of "Pedant".
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