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  • FIRST POST
    • arenaman
    • By arenaman 2nd Feb 17, 11:35 AM
    • 710Posts
    • 131Thanks
    arenaman
    DLA to PIP question
    • #1
    • 2nd Feb 17, 11:35 AM
    DLA to PIP question 2nd Feb 17 at 11:35 AM
    Hello

    My son has just turned 16 and is in the transition from changing from DLA to PIP. His circumstances have not changed any since we claimed for DLA in 2013 and all the supporting docs were provided to DWP then but never returned to us so we don't hold any "proof" of his condition at this time.

    We were told verbally by the DWP recently that when switching from DLA to PIP they could use the DLA medical docs we provided in 2013 and use them to support the current PIP application and they would get those transferred if they needed them. I referred to the conversation on the PIP application form but submitted no supporting documents as we have nothing more.

    I've had a couple of conversations with the DWP recently and I'm not convinced they're that well organised and I had to reiterate that the docs were on the DLA file despite mentioning it on the PIP application. They use an outside medical agency called ATOS who have arranged for a medical professional to meet and assess my son on behalf of DWP but they say the DWP have not provided them with any reports at all. Not sure if it was really relevant for them to pass this to ATOS to be honest

    Has anyone been in this situation? and how did the process go? I imagine this is quite a common thing with thousands of people switching from DLA to PIP and appears to be a straight forward request for them to process.

    I just don't want them to overlook these documents as otherwise we have no proof of his condition for the claim and would have to go hunting down duplicates from various medical professionals, some of whom have since retired.

    Thanks.
Page 2
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 4th Feb 17, 1:44 PM
    • 7,696 Posts
    • 1,770 Thanks
    50Twuncle
    Not a good start with ATOS, they originally sent an appointment date at a time when my son's at school and I'm at work, I called the other day, explained thngs and they had a slot on Sat 18th so booked that instead and got written confirmation yesterday. Today I get another letter changing it to Fri 17th, again when he's at school and I'm at work Do they not listen? don't answer that.
    Originally posted by arenaman
    You really ought to request a home assessment - to allow the assessor to see your son in his home environment
    • TheNickster
    • By TheNickster 4th Feb 17, 2:58 PM
    • 1,940 Posts
    • 1,838 Thanks
    TheNickster
    Not a good start with ATOS, they originally sent an appointment date at a time when my son's at school and I'm at work, I called the other day, explained thngs and they had a slot on Sat 18th so booked that instead and got written confirmation yesterday. Today I get another letter changing it to Fri 17th, again when he's at school and I'm at work Do they not listen? don't answer that.
    Originally posted by arenaman
    Anybody might think that ATOS is trying to get you to give up on your claim and not to bother. They wouldn't do that would they? (rhetorical question)
    Do not be fooled into believing that this society cannot be made fairer because hard work isn't necessarily all it takes.
    • venison
    • By venison 4th Feb 17, 9:46 PM
    • 1,106 Posts
    • 1,163 Thanks
    venison
    i think OP you should remember that PIP is about your DS care and or mobility issues NOT the diagnosis, the assessment is basically a HCP going through a tick box procedure they will probably have no more idea about his issues than I have.
    I do agree with asking for a home visit but it may be too late now as this requires a letter from his GP.
    good luck
    #WeStandTogether
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 4th Feb 17, 11:31 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    That's what the face to face assesses, there is no way of providing evidence of that other than being assessed by the people who want to know it.
    Originally posted by w06
    So you actually believe that the assessors are there to probe, ask relevant questions and write a fair unbiased report on what they have heard and seen?

    Unfortunately there is substantial evidence on this and other forums that say they don't.

    Putting yourself at the mercy of ATOS or CAPITA is a good thing?
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 4th Feb 17, 11:43 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    I don't think there ever was much professional "evidence" of the key areas of assessment supplied on the DLA claim. There was his autistic diagnosis which focused on social and developmental issues and an educational psychologist report which gave an academic report.

    So those reports confirmed the autism and would have covered the key areas of communication, reading and social skills which are sections on the application. The rest was our evidence as parents on other the key areas ie dressing, bathing, eating/drinking, preparing food, moving around, finances etc.

    This PIP form is the same, mostly our own evidence of how he copes on a daily basis.

    I'll just have to see how this one pans out
    Originally posted by arenaman
    PIP was actually brought out to redress exactly that. DLA claims and awards were given without any probing of relevant evidence and very few claimants actually had a face to face assessment. On top of that a substantial number were given indefinite awards leaving the claimant with no contact from the DWP for many years on the assumption that if there were relevant changes the claimant would tell the DWP.
    PIP is all about proving with evidence, with all awards being time limited - totally different than with DLA
    The legislation does not require the claimant to send in any evidence and only if the claimant wants to, just evidence that is to hand. It is quite remarkable that over the past 4 years the DWP are slowly trying to get the claimants to get the evidence for them. You only need to compare the notes issued by the DWP that came with the original PIP2 with the notes that come with the current PIP2. It's a case now that if you want the right result first time round then the claimant has to do the DWP's job for them.
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 4th Feb 17, 11:49 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    How can something like autism be assessed in an hour meeting with a stranger though?, like I said it took several professionals several years to diagnose him. Some things aren't obvious.

    They don't plan to test him on cooking, washing, bathing reading etc so how can they make a decision based on a meeting?
    Originally posted by arenaman
    Simple - they make assumptions from what they see and hear.
    They aren't there to diagnose. Their only job is to ask questions, watch and listen and then tick a box that in their view is what they think. There is no hard work involved and certainly no need for any real training. A low grade civil servant who has passed a St John Ambulance first aid course could actually do the same job - but then that would not be seen as being independent.
    • arenaman
    • By arenaman 7th Feb 17, 9:53 AM
    • 710 Posts
    • 131 Thanks
    arenaman
    Thanks for the further replies, this has always been down for a home visit, they're now coming out on 20th Feb which is during school holidays.

    DWP called me yesterday and they will ensure all the DLA documents are obtained for use with the PIP claim and are going to make these available to ATOS too.

    I take onboard the advice about the documents not being everything when it comes to the claim, of course thy need to see and speak to my son to ensure the claim is genuine. I'm not taking anything for granted with this one but will fight it all the way if they reject it.
    • arenaman
    • By arenaman 11th Mar 17, 5:13 PM
    • 710 Posts
    • 131 Thanks
    arenaman
    Just an update, the decision has just been made and he's been awarded higher rate for both care and mobility so we're all very pleased. The money has nearly doubled from what he was getting for DLA so we'll put that to good use for him.

    I was bracing myself for a battle but it just goes to show. I made sure they had all the documentation but other than a meeting with the GP and them supplying a report everything else in the way of documents was at least 3 yrs old.

    Thanks again for the advice, it was an eye opener even if it has worked out well for us, good luck to those who haven't had such an easy ride.
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 11th Mar 17, 5:44 PM
    • 912 Posts
    • 965 Thanks
    NeilCr
    Just an update, the decision has just been made and he's been awarded higher rate for both care and mobility so we're all very pleased. The money has nearly doubled from what he was getting for DLA so we'll put that to good use for him.

    I was bracing myself for a battle but it just goes to show. I made sure they had all the documentation but other than a meeting with the GP and them supplying a report everything else in the way of documents was at least 3 yrs old.

    Thanks again for the advice, it was an eye opener even if it has worked out well for us, good luck to those who haven't had such an easy ride.
    Originally posted by arenaman
    Thanks for the update

    I'm glad it worked out well for you. It's always worth waiting for the actual outcome - and always worth not listening to Rockingbilly

    Nice one!
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 11th Mar 17, 8:16 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    Thanks for the update

    I'm glad it worked out well for you. It's always worth waiting for the actual outcome - and always worth not listening to Rockingbilly

    Nice one!
    Originally posted by NeilCr
    Me too. The poster had an assessor that actually listened and probably used their own medical knowledge to give a fair opinion. Not that many around given the statistics and comments on this forum.
    Seems I had a poor one who couldn't be bothered to read what they had in front of them and realised that something was amiss when comparing the evidence submitted alongside what was appeared to have been written on the claim form - bells should have started to ring.
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