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  • FIRST POST
    • arenaman
    • By arenaman 2nd Feb 17, 11:35 AM
    • 710Posts
    • 131Thanks
    arenaman
    DLA to PIP question
    • #1
    • 2nd Feb 17, 11:35 AM
    DLA to PIP question 2nd Feb 17 at 11:35 AM
    Hello

    My son has just turned 16 and is in the transition from changing from DLA to PIP. His circumstances have not changed any since we claimed for DLA in 2013 and all the supporting docs were provided to DWP then but never returned to us so we don't hold any "proof" of his condition at this time.

    We were told verbally by the DWP recently that when switching from DLA to PIP they could use the DLA medical docs we provided in 2013 and use them to support the current PIP application and they would get those transferred if they needed them. I referred to the conversation on the PIP application form but submitted no supporting documents as we have nothing more.

    I've had a couple of conversations with the DWP recently and I'm not convinced they're that well organised and I had to reiterate that the docs were on the DLA file despite mentioning it on the PIP application. They use an outside medical agency called ATOS who have arranged for a medical professional to meet and assess my son on behalf of DWP but they say the DWP have not provided them with any reports at all. Not sure if it was really relevant for them to pass this to ATOS to be honest

    Has anyone been in this situation? and how did the process go? I imagine this is quite a common thing with thousands of people switching from DLA to PIP and appears to be a straight forward request for them to process.

    I just don't want them to overlook these documents as otherwise we have no proof of his condition for the claim and would have to go hunting down duplicates from various medical professionals, some of whom have since retired.

    Thanks.
Page 1
    • Ames
    • By Ames 2nd Feb 17, 12:33 PM
    • 16,154 Posts
    • 28,182 Thanks
    Ames
    • #2
    • 2nd Feb 17, 12:33 PM
    • #2
    • 2nd Feb 17, 12:33 PM
    I'm afraid anecdotal evidence on this forum is that they don't look at DLA paperwork. In fact by not sending anything it gives them an easy decision to turn down the claim - look up Glaswejen's posts.

    Is there no way to get evidence? Perhaps by doing Subject Access Requests to hospitals and/or your GP? You'll need it to appeal.

    I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
    Unless I say otherwise 'you' means the general you not you specifically.

    Reading the alphabet in 2017. 21/100
    ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
    • arenaman
    • By arenaman 2nd Feb 17, 1:15 PM
    • 710 Posts
    • 131 Thanks
    arenaman
    • #3
    • 2nd Feb 17, 1:15 PM
    • #3
    • 2nd Feb 17, 1:15 PM
    Damn I didn't want to hear that but thanks anyway

    The GP phoned me yesterday, he's been requested to provide a report but hasn't really been involved in the process so we've booked an appointment for him to go through things with us and complete the form for the DWP, Hopefully he'll have copies from other health professionals on record that we can use.

    My son has been under a paediatric consultant since the age of 2 for a "communication disorder" and was finally diagnosed (autism) through CAHMS when he was about 10. We never knew about DLA until he was 13 and have only claimed since then.

    Recently his condition has been steady so we only went for yearly paediatric reviews and now he's 16 he's been discharged from child services but hasn't yet been assigned an adult consultant.

    I've had no reason to go digging around for any paperwork as we were told they would access those held on the DLA claim which perfectly reflect his current situation and would be sufficient for an equivalent PIP grading for level of payment.

    There'll be hell to pay if I've been fed a load of BS and they reject the claim due to their own incompetence.
    Last edited by arenaman; 02-02-2017 at 2:20 PM.
    • missysmum
    • By missysmum 2nd Feb 17, 1:30 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    missysmum
    • #4
    • 2nd Feb 17, 1:30 PM
    • #4
    • 2nd Feb 17, 1:30 PM
    I have recently moved over from DLA to PIP.

    I didn't have any evidence to support my claim. All I did was fill the PIP form in and at the ATOS assessment, show the tablets I was taking. That's it.

    I was awarded standard care and mobility. Asked for a Mandatory Reconsideration on the mobility part (I know they look at the whole claim) and ended up with enhanced rate mobility and even was given more points for care, though it still amounted to standard rate.

    Even then I didn't forward any evidence as I didn't have any.
    I just thought they asked your GP.

    Hope this helps.
    • arenaman
    • By arenaman 2nd Feb 17, 2:33 PM
    • 710 Posts
    • 131 Thanks
    arenaman
    • #5
    • 2nd Feb 17, 2:33 PM
    • #5
    • 2nd Feb 17, 2:33 PM
    I have recently moved over from DLA to PIP.

    I didn't have any evidence to support my claim. All I did was fill the PIP form in and at the ATOS assessment, show the tablets I was taking. That's it.

    I was awarded standard care and mobility. Asked for a Mandatory Reconsideration on the mobility part (I know they look at the whole claim) and ended up with enhanced rate mobility and even was given more points for care, though it still amounted to standard rate.

    Even then I didn't forward any evidence as I didn't have any.
    I just thought they asked your GP.

    Hope this helps.
    Originally posted by missysmum
    That's great, thanks for sharing. I'd think it's nearly impossible for ATOS to assess my son's level of autism in the short time they had with him, it took several years for people involved with him to provide a detailed account of his needs so good luck to ATOS

    I've actually found a lot of "evidence" if they need it, old school support plans, education psychologist reports etc, doctor's letter referring to his diagnosis etcThe only thing I can't find is the detailed report of his diagnosis from CAHMS which I should be able to get a copy of from them if the GP hasn't a copy he can release. I haven't sent these in as stated I have been told that they can access the DLA docs so didn't think they needed anything more.

    The plan is for me now is to call the DWP tomorrow and get a clear answer whether they'll be getting the DLA docs themselves or not, if not I'll gather and send in whatever I can get hold of as extra evidence.
    Let's get the wheel back on before it falls off
    • Ames
    • By Ames 2nd Feb 17, 2:58 PM
    • 16,154 Posts
    • 28,182 Thanks
    Ames
    • #6
    • 2nd Feb 17, 2:58 PM
    • #6
    • 2nd Feb 17, 2:58 PM
    Don't forget to only send photocopies!
    Unless I say otherwise 'you' means the general you not you specifically.

    Reading the alphabet in 2017. 21/100
    ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 2nd Feb 17, 11:45 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    • #7
    • 2nd Feb 17, 11:45 PM
    • #7
    • 2nd Feb 17, 11:45 PM
    That's great, thanks for sharing. I'd think it's nearly impossible for ATOS to assess my son's level of autism in the short time they had with him, it took several years for people involved with him to provide a detailed account of his needs so good luck to ATOS

    I've actually found a lot of "evidence" if they need it, old school support plans, education psychologist reports etc, doctor's letter referring to his diagnosis etcThe only thing I can't find is the detailed report of his diagnosis from CAHMS which I should be able to get a copy of from them if the GP hasn't a copy he can release. I haven't sent these in as stated I have been told that they can access the DLA docs so didn't think they needed anything more.

    The plan is for me now is to call the DWP tomorrow and get a clear answer whether they'll be getting the DLA docs themselves or not, if not I'll gather and send in whatever I can get hold of as extra evidence.
    Let's get the wheel back on before it falls off
    Originally posted by arenaman
    The evidence has to be up to date and no older than 24 months at worst.
    • w06
    • By w06 3rd Feb 17, 3:13 AM
    • 243 Posts
    • 354 Thanks
    w06
    • #8
    • 3rd Feb 17, 3:13 AM
    • #8
    • 3rd Feb 17, 3:13 AM
    I transfered from DLA to PIP last year, also didn't have any evidence, gave permission to contact GP and to use DLA evidence - which was ten years old.

    They'd clearly gained the evidence needed as it was quoted in the award letter
    • arenaman
    • By arenaman 3rd Feb 17, 11:52 AM
    • 710 Posts
    • 131 Thanks
    arenaman
    • #9
    • 3rd Feb 17, 11:52 AM
    • #9
    • 3rd Feb 17, 11:52 AM
    The evidence has to be up to date and no older than 24 months at worst.
    Originally posted by rockingbilly
    Hmm, just heard from someone who has a relative working at the DWP and she said they will transfer the DLA docs and use them in the PIP claim (general info not this case specifically)

    IF they need info no older than 24 months do they expect us to ask for another assessment and report from a specialist to confirm nothing has changed? That's not going to happen just to satisfy the DWP is it?
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 3rd Feb 17, 2:18 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    Hmm, just heard from someone who has a relative working at the DWP and she said they will transfer the DLA docs and use them in the PIP claim (general info not this case specifically)

    IF they need info no older than 24 months do they expect us to ask for another assessment and report from a specialist to confirm nothing has changed? That's not going to happen just to satisfy the DWP is it?
    Originally posted by arenaman
    For a start PIP do NOT as a matter of course get hold of your DLA file - in fact they are not entitled to use anything from the DLA file unless you give them permission to do so.
    Evidence over 24 months old is considered as 'old'. Things may well have changed in those two years. Surely sending a report that was generated in say 1995 would have little value compared to one generated in 2015?
    • arenaman
    • By arenaman 3rd Feb 17, 2:49 PM
    • 710 Posts
    • 131 Thanks
    arenaman
    For a start PIP do NOT as a matter of course get hold of your DLA file - in fact they are not entitled to use anything from the DLA file unless you give them permission to do so.
    Evidence over 24 months old is considered as 'old'. Things may well have changed in those two years. Surely sending a report that was generated in say 1995 would have little value compared to one generated in 2015?
    Originally posted by rockingbilly
    Thanks, in this case (autism) the diagnosis was something that was finally diagnosed in 2011 and took a number of years to arrive at and a report was generated which was provided as evidence for the DLA claim in 2013. Nothing has changed, we know what he's got and will have for life so it's not something that gets official regular written reports so we have no reports since then.

    The DWP have been quite happy to carry on paying DLA based on that info from 2011 (so it's now 5yrs old) the last letter even says the claim will run until 2027 (strange considering he has to switch to PIP now he's 16) and asks us to let them know of any changes. I'd find it bizarre that they wouldn't accept any reports over 2yrs old for the PIP when they're happy to rely on old info for DLA.

    Anyway I'm waiting for a case manager to call me back and give me some answers, I'll probably be waiting forever ha ha.
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 3rd Feb 17, 5:37 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    Thanks, in this case (autism) the diagnosis was something that was finally diagnosed in 2011 and took a number of years to arrive at and a report was generated which was provided as evidence for the DLA claim in 2013. Nothing has changed, we know what he's got and will have for life so it's not something that gets official regular written reports so we have no reports since then.

    The DWP have been quite happy to carry on paying DLA based on that info from 2011 (so it's now 5yrs old) the last letter even says the claim will run until 2027 (strange considering he has to switch to PIP now he's 16) and asks us to let them know of any changes. I'd find it bizarre that they wouldn't accept any reports over 2yrs old for the PIP when they're happy to rely on old info for DLA.

    Anyway I'm waiting for a case manager to call me back and give me some answers, I'll probably be waiting forever ha ha.
    Originally posted by arenaman
    For a start under PIP the DWP aren't interested in any letter that only gives a diagnosis. What the do want are current care plans, current OT/Social Services assessments, letters from medical professionals that describe your difficulties etc.
    • w06
    • By w06 3rd Feb 17, 6:46 PM
    • 243 Posts
    • 354 Thanks
    w06
    It's not as black and white as that thoguh. For some things, it isn't going to change, can't improve and is a life long condition. For example I didn't provide any evidence, but my audiograms were used, amongst other things - they must have been at least ten years old because I haven't had one done since then (no hearing, and it won't grow back)
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 4th Feb 17, 10:28 AM
    • 838 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    It's not as black and white as that thoguh. For some things, it isn't going to change, can't improve and is a life long condition. For example I didn't provide any evidence, but my audiograms were used, amongst other things - they must have been at least ten years old because I haven't had one done since then (no hearing, and it won't grow back)
    Originally posted by w06
    I agree, but where is the recent evidence that shows how your life is affected within the boundaries of the descriptors? You could write what you want on the PIP2, proving it to the DWP is another matter.
    • w06
    • By w06 4th Feb 17, 11:25 AM
    • 243 Posts
    • 354 Thanks
    w06
    That's what the face to face assesses, there is no way of providing evidence of that other than being assessed by the people who want to know it.
    • arenaman
    • By arenaman 4th Feb 17, 11:31 AM
    • 710 Posts
    • 131 Thanks
    arenaman
    I don't think there ever was much professional "evidence" of the key areas of assessment supplied on the DLA claim. There was his autistic diagnosis which focused on social and developmental issues and an educational psychologist report which gave an academic report.

    So those reports confirmed the autism and would have covered the key areas of communication, reading and social skills which are sections on the application. The rest was our evidence as parents on other the key areas ie dressing, bathing, eating/drinking, preparing food, moving around, finances etc.

    This PIP form is the same, mostly our own evidence of how he copes on a daily basis.

    I'll just have to see how this one pans out
    • arenaman
    • By arenaman 4th Feb 17, 11:35 AM
    • 710 Posts
    • 131 Thanks
    arenaman
    That's what the face to face assesses, there is no way of providing evidence of that other than being assessed by the people who want to know it.
    Originally posted by w06
    How can something like autism be assessed in an hour meeting with a stranger though?, like I said it took several professionals several years to diagnose him. Some things aren't obvious.

    They don't plan to test him on cooking, washing, bathing reading etc so how can they make a decision based on a meeting?
    • w06
    • By w06 4th Feb 17, 11:37 AM
    • 243 Posts
    • 354 Thanks
    w06
    edit: crossposted with you, this refered to two posts up

    That's what mine was arenaman. GPs and may of the other professionals who are asked to don't have, and are not trained nor paid to assess to produce, evidence of the day to day effects of any condition on living.

    The DWP accessed the evidence that they needed that supported that I had reasons for the disabilities I'd identified (eg that I am deaf) and then the assessment confirmed what I'd said about how they affect me day to day.

    Try not to worry about it, just be honest and frank about what's what, I ended up with a hiigher award than I'd expected
    • w06
    • By w06 4th Feb 17, 11:43 AM
    • 243 Posts
    • 354 Thanks
    w06
    How can something like autism be assessed in an hour meeting with a stranger though?, like I said it took several professionals several years to diagnose him. Some things aren't obvious.

    They don't plan to test him on cooking, washing, bathing reading etc so how can they make a decision based on a meeting?
    Originally posted by arenaman
    They can't directly but they can infer what's likely from their assessment, it's about gathering pieces of a jigsaw. For example I just said it as it is, which includes that I work full time, teach, am doing a PhD, but need a lot of help doing x y and z. Yes I can do a b and c that's fine. I find x hard because ...,

    that, in combination with her assessment of me on the day and various evidence that they accessed independtly formed a cohesive picture of how life is, whereas the individual parts didn't
    • arenaman
    • By arenaman 4th Feb 17, 1:06 PM
    • 710 Posts
    • 131 Thanks
    arenaman
    Not a good start with ATOS, they originally sent an appointment date at a time when my son's at school and I'm at work, I called the other day, explained thngs and they had a slot on Sat 18th so booked that instead and got written confirmation yesterday. Today I get another letter changing it to Fri 17th, again when he's at school and I'm at work Do they not listen? don't answer that.
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