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  • FIRST POST
    • whitesatin
    • By whitesatin 26th May 13, 11:00 AM
    • 1,887Posts
    • 5,688Thanks
    whitesatin
    Running costs Dyson hot/cold fan
    • #1
    • 26th May 13, 11:00 AM
    Running costs Dyson hot/cold fan 26th May 13 at 11:00 AM
    We were given some gift vouchers and thinking of buying this:

    http://www.johnlewis.com/dyson-am05-hot-cool-fan-heater/p405220

    We would use it both as a fan in summer and to give a quick boost in our cold rooms in winter. Also, occasionally we might use it as a heater in our garden room if we want to sit out there on colder days.

    Any idea if the running costs on this item would be very high?
Page 2
    • rogerblack
    • By rogerblack 27th May 13, 8:48 PM
    • 9,278 Posts
    • 9,443 Thanks
    rogerblack
    Why is Sir James Dyson getting a rough deal?

    Oh I forgot, we like to knocking anyone who have done well for themselves. Runner up hero, winners (which Dyson is), and we knock them down a peg or two.
    Originally posted by sheffield lad
    Because the title of the site - if you look up at the top - is moneysavingexpert.com.

    It's not 'ThingsThatCostThirtyTimesWhatYouCouldPayAndWorkAb outAsWell.com"

    Is the dyson (arguably) an attractive heater - possibly.
    Is it going to save you money - not a hope in hell.

    If some of the marketing for it actively does claim it may save you money - without truly massive caveats in as large print - it's a case for the advertising standards agency.
    Last edited by rogerblack; 27-05-2013 at 8:51 PM.
  • aliasojo
    I 'played' with one of these in Currys last week. I loved it. It was small, neat and imo very powerful. I was amazed at the force of (very) hot air that was expelled by it / through it.

    If I had plenty money I'd have one of these in a heartbeat, you can shove your £10 Argos jobs. It's kinda like saying a Reliant Robin will get you from A to B so why pay more for a Ferrari? There's no comparison.
    Herman - MP for all!
    • Andy_WSM
    • By Andy_WSM 27th May 13, 9:08 PM
    • 2,068 Posts
    • 4,485 Thanks
    Andy_WSM
    Nonsense. Electrical elements emit light, have you never looked inside an electric oven?


    Clearly not as some of the energy is emitted as light.


    No, your statement violates the law because you are saying that something that emits light is somehow also emitting all the energy it consumes as heat.
    Originally posted by DragonQ
    Oh dear! Back to school for a physics lesson DragonQ!
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 27th May 13, 9:19 PM
    • 26,810 Posts
    • 12,994 Thanks
    Cardew
    Nonsense. Electrical elements emit light, have you never looked inside an electric oven?


    Clearly not as some of the energy is emitted as light.


    No, your statement violates the law because you are saying that something that emits light is somehow also emitting all the energy it consumes as heat.
    Originally posted by DragonQ
    Is this post meant to be serious?
    • DragonQ
    • By DragonQ 27th May 13, 10:01 PM
    • 1,982 Posts
    • 666 Thanks
    DragonQ
    Oh dear! Back to school for a physics lesson DragonQ!
    Originally posted by Andy_WSM
    I have a masters degree in physics. None of you has attempted to explain why what I have said is wrong. Unless we're talking about different things, what I have said is correct.
    • rogerblack
    • By rogerblack 27th May 13, 10:29 PM
    • 9,278 Posts
    • 9,443 Thanks
    rogerblack
    I have a masters degree in physics. None of you has attempted to explain why what I have said is wrong. Unless we're talking about different things, what I have said is correct.
    Originally posted by DragonQ
    It's a remarkably useless distinction though.
    Unless the room is open to the sky - essentially all of the IR light emitted by the elements will be absorbed by the room, and converted to heat.
    As will most of the noise.
    You missed out vibration and gravitational radiation by the way, as well as radiated EM, and ...

    However, vastly overshadowing all of these is the loss in the cable back to the meter - which may comfortably exceed a percent in some cases.
    • DragonQ
    • By DragonQ 27th May 13, 10:37 PM
    • 1,982 Posts
    • 666 Thanks
    DragonQ
    Plus of course the electricity generation in the first place isn't going to be 100% efficient. There's a reason electric heating is expensive.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 27th May 13, 10:41 PM
    • 26,810 Posts
    • 12,994 Thanks
    Cardew
    I have a masters degree in physics.
    Originally posted by DragonQ
    Really?

    Is that also a serious post?

    That 'lost' energy - where exactly does it go?

    It is a pity Albert Einstein is dead, he would be interested that you have proved him wrong.
    • DragonQ
    • By DragonQ 27th May 13, 10:48 PM
    • 1,982 Posts
    • 666 Thanks
    DragonQ
    Really?

    Is that also a serious post?

    That 'lost' energy - where exactly does it go?

    It is a pity Albert Einstein is dead, he would be interested that you have proved him wrong.
    Originally posted by Cardew
    What do you mean where does it go? Are you talking about the fact that pretty much everything turns out as heat in the end? If so, that has nothing to do with the efficiency at the point of the device (which is why I said above we may be talking about different things).

    However, if you're not talking about the energy transfer of the device itself and you're including things "later in the chain", as it were, you should also include everything earlier in the chain too, as rogerblack and I alluded to. Thus, nowhere near 100%.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 27th May 13, 11:20 PM
    • 26,810 Posts
    • 12,994 Thanks
    Cardew
    What do you mean where does it go? Are you talking about the fact that pretty much everything turns out as heat in the end? If so, that has nothing to do with the efficiency at the point of the device (which is why I said above we may be talking about different things).

    However, if you're not talking about the energy transfer of the device itself and you're including things "later in the chain", as it were, you should also include everything earlier in the chain too, as rogerblack and I alluded to. Thus, nowhere near 100%.
    Originally posted by DragonQ
    Methinks you are wriggling!

    This is what I stated:

    Ten 100watt bulbs using, say, 1kWh will produce exactly as much heat as any form of electrical heater - including fan heaters - using 1kWh.
    Which you stated was 'nonsense' because bulbs produce light.

    A kWh is a unit of energy equal to 1000 watt-hours or 3.6 megajoules.

    Given that energy can neither be created or destroyed(according to Einstein) where is the energy to the tune of 3.6 megajoules consumed by the bulbs 'lost' in your redefinition of the laws of thermodynamics?


    A halogen heater uses light as the delivery method to provide the heat. A halogen heater doesn’t just heat the air around you, it heats everything the light rays land on.
    So by your definition a halogen heater, because it is emitting light, must be less efficient than, say, an oil filled radiator.
    • DragonQ
    • By DragonQ 27th May 13, 11:58 PM
    • 1,982 Posts
    • 666 Thanks
    DragonQ
    I have no idea what you're going on about. Energy is considered "lost" or "wasted" when it is not in the form you want. A lightbulb is designed to produce light, so any energy it releases in the form of heat is considered waste. There is no redefinition here - if only 80% of the energy consumed by the bulb is emitted as light then it is considered 80% efficient. Not sure why you're struggling with this concept.

    If a halogen heater is emitting light then of course it is not 100% efficient. The way your quote describes it implies a blazing blinding light warms everything, which is clearly not the case. There is mainly heat and some light.

    I presume halogen heaters are generally more efficient than oil radiators though but again, we're talking about one specific point in the chain. If you consider the electricity being generated by the power plant too then the oil radiator probably works out as more efficient.

    In the case of the halogen heater, of course you could say you want the light too...but then you can say that about anything. You could say a fanless PC is (nearly) 100% efficient if it's cold and you like the heat being emitted, etc.
    Last edited by DragonQ; 28-05-2013 at 12:00 AM.
    • Miss Poohs
    • By Miss Poohs 28th May 13, 12:08 AM
    • 620 Posts
    • 498 Thanks
    Miss Poohs
    My wee heid is fried here!!!

    I was impressed with the cool/heat fan thingie the OP is referring to.

    Pricey - well yes, but you can't take it with you when you pop.

    Dyson vacuums are the dogs b*ll*oks
    Don't try to keep up with the Joneses - Drag them down to your level - it's cheaper .
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 28th May 13, 8:14 AM
    • 26,810 Posts
    • 12,994 Thanks
    Cardew
    I have no idea what you're going on about. Energy is considered "lost" or "wasted" when it is not in the form you want. A lightbulb is designed to produce light, so any energy it releases in the form of heat is considered waste. There is no redefinition here - if only 80% of the energy consumed by the bulb is emitted as light then it is considered 80% efficient. Not sure why you're struggling with this concept.

    If a halogen heater is emitting light then of course it is not 100% efficient. The way your quote describes it implies a blazing blinding light warms everything, which is clearly not the case. There is mainly heat and some light.

    I presume halogen heaters are generally more efficient than oil radiators though but again, we're talking about one specific point in the chain. If you consider the electricity being generated by the power plant too then the oil radiator probably works out as more efficient.

    In the case of the halogen heater, of course you could say you want the light too...but then you can say that about anything. You could say a fanless PC is (nearly) 100% efficient if it's cold and you like the heat being emitted, etc.
    Originally posted by DragonQ
    I just wanted to preserve this gem of a post.
  • ValHaller
    Nonsense. Electrical elements emit light, have you never looked inside an electric oven?
    Originally posted by DragonQ
    Indeed.

    But what happens to that light. inside a closed oven?

    What happens to the light if it gets outside the oven via the open door?

    What happens to that light when it hits anything other than a perfect mirror?
    You might as well ask the Wizard of Oz to give you a big number as pay a Credit Referencing Agency for a so-called 'credit-score'
    • MobileSaver
    • By MobileSaver 28th Aug 14, 11:04 AM
    • 1,186 Posts
    • 1,617 Thanks
    MobileSaver
    I was amazed at the force of (very) hot air that was expelled by it / through it.
    Originally posted by aliasojo
    Sadly that's also its downfall - it is much too noisy to use in say a bedroom or lounge if you want to sleep or listen to music or TV.
    Respect to 3 of the greatest actors of all time; amazing people who are totally believable as the characters they play & almost single-handedly make the shows they starred in:

    Peter Dinklage as Tyrion Lannister in Game of Thrones
    Daniel J. Travanti as Frank Furillo in Hill Street Blues
    Claire Danes as Carrie Mathison in Homeland
  • Martois
    dyson-hot-review-a-scientific-approach
    I read with interest the ongoing argument in this old post over the Dyson Hot n Cold Air Multiplier Fan and its efficiency.

    The thread led to all sorts of enthusiastic banter regarding the laws of thermo dynamics which made me chuckle but unfortunately nothing was resolved by that ego bating, I found this of interest, make of it what you will for all those who wanted closure:

    Note I can't post the link but copy / paste the following into google:

    dyson-hot-review-a-scientific-approach
    • prosaver
    • By prosaver 27th Jan 15, 1:32 PM
    • 6,490 Posts
    • 5,061 Thanks
    prosaver
    Warm Air (dyson expensive heating machine) verses
    Radiant Heat (Electric bar heater or halogen heater)

    Warm Air(dyson expensive heating machine
    Hot air rises. Therefore the ceiling of a home/workshop heated with warm air will be substantially hotter than the living/working area beneath. Poor roof insulation, a common problem in older buildings, will allow this heat to escape, further increasing fuel costs


    Radiant Heat (Electric bar heater or halogen heater)
    .Radiant heating minimizes roof heat losses. By keeping the heat at floor level and around the objects to be heated, the temperature at the ceiling level becomes cooler and substantially reduces the heat loss
    Last edited by prosaver; 27-01-2015 at 1:36 PM.
    “Life isn't about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself.”
    ― George Bernard Shaw
    • prosaver
    • By prosaver 27th Jan 15, 1:40 PM
    • 6,490 Posts
    • 5,061 Thanks
    prosaver
    heres some more quotes
    Forced air warms the air, radiant heat warms objects and air.
    Some are more efficient than others by design, by fuel and by installer experience, each has its own merits.
    I personally use forced air but prefer the feel of radiant as it doesn't just warm the air but it also warms objects in a space...it tends to envelope a person where forced warms only the air, that is why on bitter cold days forced air will feel warm for a short time then the cold seems to ooze through the walls, this because the forced air has removed the moisture from the air where radiant does not...and moisture in air is a good thing as it acts like a kind of molecular binder or glue.
    Ok, now that your eyes have glazed over and your head just smacked the desktop then you have to ask the real question, how weathertight is your home?
    This alone can make or break the best heating system.
    I guess it all comes down to doing your homework to get the best for you.
    I have to admit though, Rivergirl100 makes some very good points that should be considered as well.
    “Life isn't about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself.”
    ― George Bernard Shaw
    • Michaela76
    • By Michaela76 1st Oct 16, 12:47 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Michaela76
    I think you are all missing the point when it comes to efficiency

    A fan heater can never be 100% efficient

    It has moving parts which by definition require energy to make it move

    It is a fan so it will make noise - more energy losses

    So basically it cant be 100% efficient in terms of heating because you are already using some of the energy to run the fan - energy to overcome the electrical resistance of the cables
    and energy losses in sound and light

    £400 price tag - definitely not good value for money as a heating appliance

    If you are loaded with cash and can afford £400 for this heater - you dont need to worry about the cost of running it - A bit like buying a 4L car and complaining about the cost of Tax, Fuel and Insurance really
    • Neonnadge
    • By Neonnadge 27th Oct 16, 10:37 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Neonnadge
    I own a Dyson Pure Hot and Cool Link. It was £500 and I love it. It's safer than conventional heaters especially around children. It monitors and automatically purify's the air in my flat. It heats the entire flat quickly and switches its heater off when at the required temperature is met. No more convention heaters for me. It's also pretty to look at. I am a dyson fan (excuse the pun) have had a lot of there products over the years and will keep paying there prices for these devices. The standard, quality and support is excellent. Next on my list the hair dryer. 😁 ( I also don't work for Dyson)
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