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  • FIRST POST
    blueback
    Charging Order? The myth
    • #1
    • 26th Jul 09, 11:28 AM
    Charging Order? The myth 26th Jul 09 at 11:28 AM
    I feel that this is so important that I thought a new thread should be made to highlight the importance of understanding the law on Charging Orders and how many people are stuck with their property in the false believe that they have had a Charging Order put on their property.

    In particular the thousands of Northern Rock customers that have had unsecured debt turned into secured debt by their tactics.

    If your property is jointly owned a creditor will not be able to obtain a CO against you, they can only get what is called a restriction.

    The laws on Restrictions are totally different to Orders, the most important being there is NO OBLIGATION for you to pay any of the proceeds of the sale to the creditor.

    However, during the whole court process you go through the reference from all parties (especially the creditor) will be to charging order and NOT to restriction. This is done in order to decieve you believing you are stuck with a CO.

    However, not all solicitors are aware of the law in this regard and it is important that you raise this point with them in the first instance before proceeding with them

    Quote:

    Restriction


    The restriction which can be entered on the register where a charging order is made against one of joint proprietors is in the following form :-
    No disposition of the registered estate is to be registered without a certificate signed by the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that written notice of the disposition was given to [name of person with the benefit of the charging order] at [address for service], being the person with the benefit of [an interim] [a final] charging order on the beneficial interest of (name of judgment debtor) made by the (name of court) on (date) (Court reference.…).
    You are therefore correct in saying that when the Land Registry receives an application to register, for example a transfer, we will not ask to see the consent of the person who has the benefit of the charging order. We will only want a certificate from the applicant for registration or his conveyancer that the person who has the benefit of the charging order has been given written notice of the transfer.

    If both joint owners sell the land to a third party the restriction will be cancelled when the transfer to the purchasers is registered.


    So I hope I have provided benefit to everyone who has had a restriction entered against them (especially NORTHERN ROCK CUSTOMERS) who believe wrongly that they are Charging Orders.

    You now have the freedom to go and sell your houses with the knowledge that the vultures can do nothing

    I also think this VERY IMPORTANT point needs highlighting by the moderators as many many people are stuck with houses that they believe they cannot sell
Page 2
  • tra12
    i have found this thread very useful so even if my partner gets the charging order wen we go to court if we !!! to sell are home as long as we get a solicitor who nows about the restriction we wont av to pay them anythin even out ov hes share of the property is that right?
  • tra12
    hi so if u get a charging order and sell ur home, as long as you get a solicitor who nows about these restrictions u dont have to pay any of the dept even out of hes share of the property, whos dept it is is this right?
  • blueback
    You need to ensure the solicitor knows the law on CO and restrictions. They MUST act in your interest and leave the minimum ammount of time nescessary to inform the creditor of the sale and provide an undertaking, which is legally binding and a serious offence to break, that the restriction will fall away and becaome void on competion to the buyers solictior.

    Wait for completion and the funds hit your account. Of course, there will be some that act so quickly in order to recall the debt although my solicitor told me that this was very rare indeed.
  • bradfordlad
    you say about the property being jointly owned - doesthis still apply if the mortgage is in joint names, as of course the mortgage terms have the "jointly & severally liable" clause in them.

    To make myself clear - would it be a restriction (rather than a CO) if the house is jointly owned, and the mortgage is in joint names.

    cheers

    bl
  • blueback
    The CO / restriction has nothing to do with the mortgage

    Joint owned mortgage + joint owned debt = full charging order

    Joint owned mortgage + individual owned debt = restriction

    FUll charging order = equity automatically goes toward paying the debt

    Restriction = creditor has to apply to the court to obtain money

    If your solicitor informs your creditor no more than 14 days before completion they have only a very slim chance of making the deadline. It would mean the person opening the letter to send it straight to legal and the cogs turning faster than their brains!

    Hope this helps
    • JES_F1
    • By JES_F1 15th Aug 09, 9:52 PM
    • 669 Posts
    • 1,422 Thanks
    JES_F1
    What about a joint-owned property owned outright (i.e. with no mortgage) and individual debt? Is that still a restriction rather than a full charging order?
    Debt Jan 2008: £45,566. *** June 2013: DEBT FREE! ***
    Paid back just under £50,000 due to some interest added.

    Dealt with my debt through a Step Change
    (CCCS) DMP.
    DMP Mutual Support Thread Member #240.
  • blueback
    The restriction is placed on the land and has nothing to do with the mortgage so the same would apply.

    I am not a solicitor so check anything I say with them first.
    • Miss Poohs
    • By Miss Poohs 16th Aug 09, 8:44 AM
    • 613 Posts
    • 497 Thanks
    Miss Poohs
    Does this apply in Scotland too?
    Don't try to keep up with the Joneses - Drag them down to your level - it's cheaper .
  • blueback
    No idea i'm afraid, but you could just call land registry and check it out
    • AMBERSHADOW
    • By AMBERSHADOW 16th Aug 09, 2:42 PM
    • 512 Posts
    • 119 Thanks
    AMBERSHADOW
    Thank you for bringing this back to the top of the forum.. I believe there are loads of people thinking Creditor's can take our house, and without this knowledge you have provided we would possibly let them

    thank you
  • blueback
    I am sure that there a are a few people who have sold their properties and seen their proceeds hit their bank accounts instead of the creditor.

    I just hope many more do before they change the law as they will definately do.

    I am so gald that Northern Rock took the Charging Order in the first place because I am now saving, have no debts and have over £90000 unenforceable.

    I would of continued in complete ignorance to be shackled in debt forever and paying 800 a month into a phony DMP.

    My CRA file has gone from 21 pages to 7 and I have won £oooo,s in compensation all thanks to my solicitor and this site. it does take time, in my case just over a year.

    Keep fighting, in fact it not fighting, you only have to write a few letters and stay in control.

    Good luck all
  • paula911red
    charging orders
    hi can someone help me please.....
    i had a northern rock unsecured loan, whch they have now sold on to an agency along with a charging order, this company is threatening to start reposession proceedings, they are not my first mortgage company. northern rock told me i didnt have to do anything and they would sort everything out, ive since found out if i had of attended court or wrote in with my circumstances then the judge could have ruled in my favour.... they refuse to freeze interest so my reduced pmts to them doesnt cover the pmt or the 8% interest every month, they want all paperwork frm me bills bank stats etc.... for the last 3 months and then they said they would decide what action to take, can they do this? also can i appeal to someone to get the interest frozen? can anyone help me with this minefield before i have a nervous breakdown, thanks:confused:
  • blueback
    If you have proof they told you do nothing and you did not attend court because of this then go to a solicitor or citizens advice straight away.

    Ask for a copy of thre CCA from the new company (follow the CCA forums on here to get your template letters)

    BTW, it is very unlikely in deed that this company will start proceedings as you are making repayments. It is even more unlikely that you would be reposessed for a unsecured personal loan in the current circumstances.

    Go the CCA route or if the house is in joint names, sell the house if you want to, save your equity and rent until you can repair your credit file. Mines gone from 20 somrthing pages of default mess to 7 now and they will be gone by Christmas.

    Once you know what they have you can start the process of get rid of these scum one by one.
  • blueback
    To the person that Pm'd me and sold the house without losing anything , please provide details here as people will only act upon real situations.

    Charging orders are poop if the house is in joint names and the debt is owed only by one of you.

    Dont get trapped by (il)legal letters
    • maz1964
    • By maz1964 6th Sep 09, 11:31 AM
    • 876 Posts
    • 2,828 Thanks
    maz1964
    Charging orders are poop if the house is in joint names and the debt is owed only by one of you.

    Dont get trapped by (il)legal letters
    Originally posted by blueback
    hiya blueback

    can you pls explain how do you mean poop in house is in joint names?

    ours is and im being threatened with a charging order for a credit card amount only in my sole name

    cheers maz
    Sealed Pot Challenge member 1525

    "Knowledge is the Power to get Debt Free"

    Truecall device, stops all the unneccesary phone calls - my sanity has been restored and the peace in the house is truely priceless!
  • blueback
    Maz, if you read the whole thread I think it explains the whole CO situation when the property is in joint names and the debt is owed by one of you.

    it cant happen
  • nymph
    We had a 25k loan in joint names and the solicitors for NR went for CCJ and CO against me only, I think they were trying to put pressure on me and panic us into trying to find the money from somewhere. Like - WHERE?

    They got it granted, craftily holding the initial hearing at their local court which I couldn't get to, rather than my local court. Payplan advised I didn't need to go to the initial hearing, to make sure I submitted my papers in time and we would appeal to monthly payments, they do it like that all the time. I've since learnt that I could have requested the initial hearing at local court so that I could have attended.

    I've read all the above with great interest because when I went to court to request the CCJ be put into monthly payments, the judge ordered the monthly payments, (no ruling made on interest, which I was in too much of a tizzy to notice at the time) and ordered that the CHARGING ORDER Northern Rock had already been granted which was made in my name only should still stand.

    So, from what I've read in this thread, the Charging Order that I thought meant I couldn't sell my house and was stuck with it (and my young family rapidly outgrowing the walls) is nothing more than a paper exercise in futility. That's very satisfying!

    I have also found out that once NR were granted the CCJ (monthly payments) they are legally bound by it, they cannot demand any more. Which means that when my daughter goes to school next year and childminding fees drop, I can pay the extra money off my OTHER debts, and NR can't touch it!!!
    Not only that but, should we decide to go for an IVA, they are excluded from the voting input, which means my biggest debt is truely tied up. NR really shot themselves in the foot with their bullyiing tactics!!!
    HAHA they shoud have just stuck with DMP I was religiously adhering to!
    Lightbulb Moment April 2005
    Total Owed - £68986 (excluding mortgage)
    Payplan DMP began Sept 2005
    Amount paid to Date - £15330, £53656 to go
    Debt Free Date - April 2021
  • nickneedshelp
    Hi All,
    Has anyone else managed to go via this route,I have asked a few people and they say it's not true(or they don't know).

    I have read the information on the Land Registry site and although it seems to agree with what Blueback is saying I find it unbelievable that in the current climate this is not a major find.

    Nick
  • yellowduck
    My ex husband's name is on the mortgage for the house I live in. Under the terms of our divorce he was to get 35% of the sale of the home once our son reached 21 or if i cohabited\remarried. I guess this means he has a 35% share in the property as I have paid off the mortgage. I have no plans to remarry or cohabit (put off this by his Tiger Woods style of behaviour). Property not worth enough for me to sell and buy another outright. Into this mix I now have NatWest chuntering about a charging order as I owe them £6,700 on an unsecured loan. Would this now be "restricted" due my ex's name being on the deeds?. Our son is over 21 now but my ex has not tried to force me to sell as he never paid me any child support and feels a tiny bit of guilt on this matter.
    I am trying to negotiate token payments with NatWest as I am not working due to illness. I am very far away from a Charging Order, I didn't even know what they were till a "lovely" gentleman in their collections dept told me that they would "take your house" when i could not meet my repayments. Thanks to this forum I have learnt that there is a process to go through before it gets to this stage, but they put the fear of God into me. Anyway the more info I have, the stronger I feel.
    Last edited by yellowduck; 11-12-2009 at 11:37 AM. Reason: punctuation
  • nickneedshelp
    Hi Yellowduck,
    I think it would be great if we get some clarification on this subject,after all the DCA's are now using them all the time and it seems even when debt plans have been agreed and maintained.

    Nick
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