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  • FIRST POST
    • acooper95
    • By acooper95 18th Mar 17, 2:00 PM
    • 33Posts
    • 4Thanks
    acooper95
    PIP Help
    • #1
    • 18th Mar 17, 2:00 PM
    PIP Help 18th Mar 17 at 2:00 PM
    Hi all,

    New to this forum so hello from me.

    Few days ago my son was awarded PIP and given standard rates for both. We are both delighted, but disappointed as the letter he received today isn't truthful.

    Budgeting
    We stated in the forms and face to face that my son is unable to make budgeting decisions. Due to his depression and unable to control finances, I have full access to his accounts and debit cards. I arrange the bills to be paid, rent and other expenses. This was stated to the assessor who came to his house. He was awarded 0 points and it states "You can managed complex budgeting decisions unaided"; which isn't true.

    Mixing with other people
    We stated in the forms and face to face that my son suffers from social anxiety and being in an open place with people causes him distress; let alone engage with them. He cannot go out unless it's with me and even then, he appears stressed and will make me take him home. As soon as the assessor sat down, he told her that I would be talking for him. She stated that he had to to understand it more. He did reluctantly under the impression he had to or wouldn't get the benefit. He was awarded 0 points and it states "You can engage with other people unaided"

    Preparing food
    We stated that he cannot prepare or cook a simple meal due not being able to concentrate. He burns himself when forgetting pans on the hob and due to having no sense of smell, he's at hazard of burning the house down or himself. I either cook for him or give him microwave meals. He was awarded 2 points and it states "You need an aid or appliance to be able to prepare or cook a simple meal"

    Managing your treatments
    We stated due to his depression and inability to concentrate and due to number of meds he takes, I sort his various meds out into a dossette box. I visit morning and evening to ensure he takes them as he has the tendency to forget. He was awarded 0 points and it states "You can manage medication unaided"

    He was awarded 8 points.

    Mobility - Going Out
    We stated that he is unable to follow the route of a familiar or unfamiliar journey without another person. Whenever he does need to go out, e.g food or specialist appointments, I literally have to force him into the car to go. Whilst we shop for food, he will stay in the car. He cannot travel on public transport alone and he is never in public without me. Before we travel, I have to confirm with him the route of journey on Google Maps; this was then noted down that he likes to look at Google Maps; what a load of rubbish. It 's not a familiar route, he will panic, get anxious and refuse to go. He was awarded 0 points and it states "You are able to plan and follow a simple journey unaided"

    He was awarded 10 points for moving around and 0 for going out.

    What does he do now? He is worried his claim will get stopped if he even challenges it. Very disappointed as the points missing would of got him the higher rate on both.

    Thanks in advance,
Page 3
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 20th Mar 17, 10:43 AM
    • 9,374 Posts
    • 17,318 Thanks
    Muttleythefrog
    Andy you wonder why people get annoyed when they moan they don't get much or want more!

    Benefits pay too well there is little incentive to get better or report change it is equivalent to about £21k salery per year. Without the hassle of a job.

    Many people on the sick could only dream of earning that much due to poor skills and education.

    Don't forget all the other perks that come with benefits like dentists prescriptions and other freebies.

    Benefits are no longer a safety net.
    Originally posted by Savile
    We are talking here about disabled people... or in particular a disabled person. To use terms like perks in that context along with other people having a moan seems somewhat telling of your character. In any case you'd have to put into context those extra costs of disability... disabilities I'm sure people would rather be without.

    People are always wanting more... this is not an exclusive trait of benefit claimants... when I was in work it seemed to be the daily chatter or complaint. In fact because they spent so much time talking about it I had to compensate for their lack of efficiency... which led me to claim I should be paid more.
    Last edited by Muttleythefrog; 20-03-2017 at 10:46 AM.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 20th Mar 17, 10:48 AM
    • 9,374 Posts
    • 17,318 Thanks
    Muttleythefrog
    Well DWP are being a nightmare this morning. Won't send him a IS10 form as she 'cant' and she cant manually update the ESA claim and add SDP. Unsure why and told me she will find out and call me within 5 days. Not happy. (UPDATE: Phoned again and it had been processed and backdated from 21st November)

    LHA is £68.35 a week so that will stay the same, as will the council tax support. Lives in a 2 bed house since partner left a year ago. Easier to stay than move out with the stress.

    Just looking at benefit amounts and should be on:
    ESA £125.05 a week
    Housing £68.35 a week
    SDP £61.85 a week
    PIP £76.90 a week

    = £1,328 a month which is great. Little **** will get more than me and I work!

    Suffice to say he will not be contesting the points.
    Originally posted by acooper95
    'You don't know what you're doing' is a common feeling I've had when I or someone on my behalf has been in conversation with them.

    I still think there'd be real merit in pursuing a PIP reconsideration/appeal... but I also appreciate that it is not a simple administrative decision and have acted similarly myself with my own claim. Hopefully he can get on with more positive things... like I intend to.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 20th Mar 17, 2:02 PM
    • 708 Posts
    • 223 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    Probably for the same reason we have lots of different taxes... just as per biological evolution the default is to add on to or amend what is existing to address an arising issue.
    Originally posted by Muttleythefrog
    So if it acceptable or indeed required for the DWP to 'add' an extra amount (the arising issue) over and above the DLA/PIP award for the same disability if claiming say Income based ESA, why then is it not added to those claiming Contribution based ESA?
    To me that is admitting that those on an income based benefit need more money for the costs involved relating to that disability; so why not simply either pay everyone on ESA or better still, increase the DLA/PIP rates?
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 20th Mar 17, 2:09 PM
    • 708 Posts
    • 223 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    I am talking more about the cases where they could work but there is just no point due to drop in money, there are many disability's where there is NO extra cost and a lot who live a normal life most of the time but have "bad days" a few times year (normaly on accesment days) and feel they should be just left alone for life. where is the incentive to get a job??

    this is the problem.

    As for perks there are plenty, Free tickets for places, concessions, free parking, reduction on bills,

    And if you are in the mindset of getting something for nothing why would you want to give this all up to work for minimum wage?
    Originally posted by Savile
    What amazes me is the number of households where both husband & wife + children are all claiming DLA/PIP AND don't work. Yet in other families where at least one works it is very rare to see more than one of the party said to be disabled.

    Mind you I don't blame them. Not with multiple DLA/PIP awards in place with everyone claiming to care for each other etc they are raking in over £600 a week!!
    • _CC_
    • By _CC_ 20th Mar 17, 2:26 PM
    • 231 Posts
    • 192 Thanks
    _CC_
    I am talking more about the cases where they could work but there is just no point due to drop in money
    Originally posted by Savile
    This thread is about help with PIP. PIP is not means tested so there is drop in money.

    there are many disability's where there is NO extra cost and a lot who live a normal life most of the time but have "bad days" a few times year (normaly on accesment days) and feel they should be just left alone for life. where is the incentive to get a job??
    Originally posted by Savile
    Hence the reason for something like PIP which targets the resources at those who face daily/mobility challenges.

    The challenges include those people may face in the work place. Many people who receive PIP are in work.

    As for perks there are plenty, Free tickets for places, concessions, free parking, reduction on bills,

    And if you are in the mindset of getting something for nothing why would you want to give this all up to work for minimum wage?
    Originally posted by Savile
    Again, PIP is not means tested. Why do you think people who are disabled are work shy? Plenty go out, work and make a positive contribution... unlike some people.
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 20th Mar 17, 2:34 PM
    • 10,280 Posts
    • 12,164 Thanks
    pmlindyloo
    Well DWP are being a nightmare this morning. Won't send him a IS10 form as she 'cant' and she cant manually update the ESA claim and add SDP. Unsure why and told me she will find out and call me within 5 days. Not happy. (UPDATE: Phoned again and it had been processed and backdated from 21st November)

    LHA is £68.35 a week so that will stay the same, as will the council tax support. Lives in a 2 bed house since partner left a year ago. Easier to stay than move out with the stress.

    Just looking at benefit amounts and should be on:
    ESA £125.05 a week
    Housing £68.35 a week
    SDP £61.85 a week
    PIP £76.90 a week

    = £1,328 a month which is great. Little **** will get more than me and I work!

    Suffice to say he will not be contesting the points.
    Originally posted by acooper95
    Have you informed the council that he is now receiving SDP?

    An award of SDP for a single person under 35 entitles them to the one bed rate of LHA instead of the the shared accommodation rate. The LHA you have given looks low for a one bed rate but may be correct depending on the area he lives in. Worth checking his council website to find out the LHA for one bed rate and informing the council that he has been awarded the SDP.
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 20th Mar 17, 2:40 PM
    • 708 Posts
    • 223 Thanks
    rockingbilly

    Hence the reason for something like PIP which targets the resources at those who face daily/mobility challenges.
    You are having a laugh. To be absolutely truthful I don't know anyone that gets either DLA or PIP who can genuinely say that they do have extra costs. I had DLA for years (HRM & MRC) and in that time I didn't have any extra costs. To say that PIP targets those that need the money most is ridiculous. How does the government come up with that argument? How do they test for that?

    Again, PIP is not means tested. Why do you think people who are disabled are work shy? Plenty go out, work and make a positive contribution... unlike some people.
    Originally posted by _CC_
    PIP/DLA = extra premiums if you don't want to work. A couple (no children) both claiming would be on over approx £600 a week if you include all benefits received
    • Tommo1980
    • By Tommo1980 20th Mar 17, 3:07 PM
    • 289 Posts
    • 363 Thanks
    Tommo1980
    Those claiming contribution based benefits may be entitled to income based top ups. It depends on whether they have other household income and their level of savings.

    Just one of numerous inaccuracies and contradictions in your ignorant posts on this subject.
    Last edited by Tommo1980; 20-03-2017 at 3:09 PM.
    • CTcelt1988
    • By CTcelt1988 20th Mar 17, 7:48 PM
    • 251 Posts
    • 281 Thanks
    CTcelt1988
    Rockingbilly and Saville are trolls who's advise should be ignored.

    Especially Rockingbilly, who bemoans people claiming from the state when they don't need it, yet is quite happy to do it himself.
    • acooper95
    • By acooper95 20th Mar 17, 7:56 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    acooper95
    Have you informed the council that he is now receiving SDP?

    An award of SDP for a single person under 35 entitles them to the one bed rate of LHA instead of the the shared accommodation rate. The LHA you have given looks low for a one bed rate but may be correct depending on the area he lives in. Worth checking his council website to find out the LHA for one bed rate and informing the council that he has been awarded the SDP.
    Originally posted by pmlindyloo
    Hello!

    I contacted them today and informed of PIP but not SDP (As hadn't been confirmed). As he is single and lives in a 2 bed property, he only gets the rate for shared. But will call them tomorrow and inform them of SDP and see what they say.
    • acooper95
    • By acooper95 20th Mar 17, 8:19 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    acooper95
    Have you informed the council that he is now receiving SDP?

    An award of SDP for a single person under 35 entitles them to the one bed rate of LHA instead of the the shared accommodation rate. The LHA you have given looks low for a one bed rate but may be correct depending on the area he lives in. Worth checking his council website to find out the LHA for one bed rate and informing the council that he has been awarded the SDP.
    Originally posted by pmlindyloo
    I've just spoken to a friend who works within the benefit office at our local council and she has pretty much said as I have declared ESA and PIP for him, he can only claim the maximum for shared. Said SDP won't alter this???
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 20th Mar 17, 8:50 PM
    • 937 Posts
    • 991 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    I've just spoken to a friend who works within the benefit office at our local council and she has pretty much said as I have declared ESA and PIP for him, he can only claim the maximum for shared accommodation.
    Originally posted by acooper95
    Have a look at https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/housing_benefit/shared_accommodation_rate_for_under_35s

    Which states "If you are a single private renter under the age of 35, you are usually only entitled to housing benefit at the shared accommodation rate......Exemptions......
    Housing benefit if you have a disability

    You can claim the 1-bed rate of local housing allowance (LHA) if you are in self-contained accommodation and get any of the following benefits:

    daily living component of personal independence payment (PIP)
    attendance allowance
    middle or high rate care component of disability living allowance (DLA)"

    If you need to double check the information from the council it may be worth contacting Shelter:
    "Call Shelter's free housing advice helpline on:
    0808 800 4444
    It's open 365 days of the year from 8am – 8pm on weekdays and 8am – 5pm on weekends.
    Our housing experts will advise you, no matter what your housing situation. Our helpline does get busy, but keep trying if you can't get through."
    Be aware that your son can challenge incorrect HB decisions.

    There are a range of premiums which can attach to the applicable amount for Housing Benefit, one of these is the Severe Disability Premium. Here is some information on this -
    "The Severe Disability Premium which is £61.85 per week for each person who qualifies and can be included if you (and your partner if you have one) receive a qualifying disability benefit (which includes the middle or the higher rate of the care component of DLA, either rate of the daily living component of PIP or either rate of Attendance Allowance); live alone (there are exceptions to this rule); and if no one is paid Carer’s Allowance for looking after you."
    See https://www.carersuk.org/help-and-advice/financial-support/help-with-benefits/housing-benefit

    If the SDA premium is now included in your son's Housing Benefit applicable amount it opens the opportunity for him to be awarded the 1 bed-roomed LHA rate rather than the shared accommodation LHA rate.

    This is from https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/324708/lha-guidance-manual.pdf
    "Separate rules apply to: .......people under the age of 35 who have the Severe Disability Premium
    included in their benefit – see paragraph 2.080......
    ........Severe Disability Premium included in benefit assessment
    2.080 Under 35 year olds, single customers over 35 or couples who have no
    dependent children and who have the Severe Disability Premium
    included in their benefit assessment, will have their benefit allowance
    based on the one bedroom LHA rate
    whether or not they share
    accommodation
    and regardless of its size. "

    You can find the LHA rates by looking at: https://lha-direct.voa.gov.uk/search.aspx

    You may wish to make your friend you works in the housing benefit office aware of this guidance manual!



    On a different topic. Because your son's PIP award did not acknowledge his difficulties with anxiety and mental health (whereas I suspect it did accept physical problems i.e. walking), if he doesn't wish to appeal the current, then when the renewal comes up be sure that these difficulties are fully explained and evidenced on the renewal form.
    Last edited by Alice Holt; 20-03-2017 at 9:24 PM.
    • acooper95
    • By acooper95 20th Mar 17, 9:13 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    acooper95
    Have a look at https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/housing_benefit/shared_accommodation_rate_for_under_35s

    Which states "If you are a single private renter under the age of 35, you are usually only entitled to housing benefit at the shared accommodation rate......Exemptions......
    Housing benefit if you have a disability

    You can claim the 1-bed rate of local housing allowance (LHA) if you are in self-contained accommodation and get any of the following benefits:

    daily living component of personal independence payment (PIP)
    attendance allowance
    middle or high rate care component of disability living allowance (DLA)"

    If you need to double check the information from the council it may be worth contacting Shelter:
    Call Shelter's free housing advice helpline on:
    0808 800 4444
    It's open 365 days of the year from 8am – 8pm on weekdays and 8am – 5pm on weekends.
    Our housing experts will advise you, no matter what your housing situation. Our helpline does get busy, but keep trying if you can't get through.
    Originally posted by Alice Holt
    How annoying. Spoke to women this morning and said ' Hello, my son is in receipt of housing benefit and council tax support. He has now been awarded PIP (both DL and Mobility) and wish to check if he is entitled to any further help"

    She confirmed his PIP award had been sent to the council and that he received the maximum housing £68 for shared and council tax support. No other financial help available.

    Assuming they are incorrect?
    • Tommo1980
    • By Tommo1980 20th Mar 17, 9:33 PM
    • 289 Posts
    • 363 Thanks
    Tommo1980
    If I understand correctly he has not been awarded SDP yet.

    Once that is sorted then HB can be recalculated.

    Tom
    Last edited by Tommo1980; 20-03-2017 at 9:36 PM.
    • acooper95
    • By acooper95 20th Mar 17, 9:33 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    acooper95
    Have a look at https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/housing_benefit/shared_accommodation_rate_for_under_35s

    Which states "If you are a single private renter under the age of 35, you are usually only entitled to housing benefit at the shared accommodation rate......Exemptions......
    Housing benefit if you have a disability

    You can claim the 1-bed rate of local housing allowance (LHA) if you are in self-contained accommodation and get any of the following benefits:

    daily living component of personal independence payment (PIP)
    attendance allowance
    middle or high rate care component of disability living allowance (DLA)"

    If you need to double check the information from the council it may be worth contacting Shelter:
    "Call Shelter's free housing advice helpline on:
    0808 800 4444
    It's open 365 days of the year from 8am – 8pm on weekdays and 8am – 5pm on weekends.
    Our housing experts will advise you, no matter what your housing situation. Our helpline does get busy, but keep trying if you can't get through."
    Be aware that your son can challenge incorrect HB decisions.

    There are a range of premiums which can attach to the applicable amount for Housing Benefit, one of these is the Severe Disability Premium. Here is some information on this -
    "The Severe Disability Premium which is £61.85 per week for each person who qualifies and can be included if you (and your partner if you have one) receive a qualifying disability benefit (which includes the middle or the higher rate of the care component of DLA, either rate of the daily living component of PIP or either rate of Attendance Allowance); live alone (there are exceptions to this rule); and if no one is paid Carer’s Allowance for looking after you."
    See https://www.carersuk.org/help-and-advice/financial-support/help-with-benefits/housing-benefit

    If the SDA premium is now included in your son's Housing Benefit applicable amount it opens the opportunity for him to be awarded the 1 bed-roomed LHA rate rather than the shared accommodation LHA rate.

    This is from https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/324708/lha-guidance-manual.pdf
    "Separate rules apply to: .......people under the age of 35 who have the Severe Disability Premium
    included in their benefit – see paragraph 2.080......
    ........Severe Disability Premium included in benefit assessment
    2.080 Under 35 year olds, single customers over 35 or couples who have no
    dependent children and who have the Severe Disability Premium
    included in their benefit assessment, will have their benefit allowance
    based on the one bedroom LHA rate
    whether or not they share
    accommodation
    and regardless of its size. "

    You can find the LHA rates by looking at: https://lha-direct.voa.gov.uk/search.aspx

    You may wish to make your friend you works in the housing benefit office aware of this guidance manual!



    On a different topic. Because your son's PIP award did not acknowledge his difficulties with anxiety and mental health (whereas I suspect it did accept physical problems i.e. walking), if he doesn't wish to appeal the current, then when the renewal comes up be sure that these difficulties are fully explained and evidenced on the renewal form.
    Originally posted by Alice Holt
    Apologies, read it wrong.

    I shall inform them tomorrow of my son's SDP and get them to update it.

    Do you know if the new LHA would be payable from say tomorrow, instead of backdate?

    Thanks in advance.
    • acooper95
    • By acooper95 20th Mar 17, 9:37 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    acooper95
    If I understand correctly he has not been SDP yet.

    Once that is sorted then HB can be recalculated.

    Tom
    Originally posted by Tommo1980
    Thank you. Do you know if the new LHA amount would be backdated? Or would it be live from say tomorrow? The SDP was backdated from November.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 20th Mar 17, 9:49 PM
    • 937 Posts
    • 991 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    How annoying.........
    ..........Assuming they are incorrect?
    Originally posted by acooper95
    Both pmlinyloo and I think your son should now get the 1 - bed rate rather than the LHA shared rate.

    I have given you internet sources to back this up. When you contact the council tomorrow, I would quote these references and ask for the calculation to be passed to a more senior staff member to ensure the correct determination has been made.

    In fairness HB is very complicated.
    There are a few posters on here who are knowledgeable on HB, (HBO is one) if you post a new thread specifically on HB / PIP / under 35 shared accommodation rate vs 1 bed LHA rate you might catch their attention and get some helpful info / confirmation.
    Last edited by Alice Holt; 20-03-2017 at 9:59 PM.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 20th Mar 17, 9:58 PM
    • 937 Posts
    • 991 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    If I understand correctly he has not been awarded SDP yet.

    Once that is sorted then HB can be recalculated.

    Tom
    Originally posted by Tommo1980
    HI Tom,

    I think the PIP award should trigger a SDP premium attaching to the HB applicable amount.

    It doesn't necessarily need an ESA SDP payment to be in place, The PIP award would suffice (per the quote from carers uk I gave in an earlier post).

    So, I think, the info the OP has been given from the council is incorrect.

    Bw
    • acooper95
    • By acooper95 20th Mar 17, 10:21 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    acooper95
    Have done, thank you.

    One last one, do you know if the new LHA amount would be backdated? Or would it be live from say tomorrow?
    • xXMessedUpXx
    • By xXMessedUpXx 21st Mar 17, 12:28 AM
    • 16,868 Posts
    • 44,288 Thanks
    xXMessedUpXx
    PIP/DLA = extra premiums if you don't want to work. A couple (no children) both claiming would be on over approx £600 a week if you include all benefits received
    Originally posted by rockingbilly
    PIP isn't soley an out of work benefit. I claim it and i work (and yes the WP know i informed them of that fact at my asessment, still got awarded it). It means i can get tax credits as i am unable to work full time (not through lack of trying, longer hours either leaves me suicidal depressed or manically high to the point i'm now on the maximum dose of my mood stabiliser-its been quadrupled since feb)
    "Life Is Like A Beautiful Melody Only The Lyrics Are Messed Up"
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