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  • FIRST POST
    • Terry98
    • By Terry98 19th Mar 17, 1:51 PM
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    Terry98
    Smart Meters and Supply Transfer
    • #1
    • 19th Mar 17, 1:51 PM
    Smart Meters and Supply Transfer 19th Mar 17 at 1:51 PM
    I am thinking of moving supply from OVO at the end of my fixed term because it seems I can save over £100 by moving to FU.

    Two things are stopping me from doing it........customer service and the smart meters supplied by OVO.

    OVO say the SM's they supply are the same as FU's but FU have told me in an email 'because we didn't install your Smart Meter we can't take a remote reading from it'. Is that is right or is it some CS op just saying that without looking into it?

    OVO customer service has been excellent and FU rating is not the best but I would be prepared to test it if they could use my smart meters.
Page 1
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 19th Mar 17, 2:06 PM
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    matelodave
    • #2
    • 19th Mar 17, 2:06 PM
    • #2
    • 19th Mar 17, 2:06 PM
    There must be 1000 posts on this forum about compatibility of smart meters between suppliers.

    In general most smart meters that are in service at the moment are supplier specific and cannot be used as smart meters with another supplier. Existing meters usually have specific supplier proprietary software to communicate with directly with the suppliers own network.

    They'll still function as an dumb meter but you wont get remote reading and you may lose some or all of the functionality of the in house monitor.

    It's not unitl possibly later this year that compatible meters (called SMETS2) may start to be rolled out as they'll communicate with the centralised data communications company. Existing meters may or may not be upgradeable to the SMETS2 standard, but there are no plans to do that before 2020
    Last edited by matelodave; 19-03-2017 at 2:10 PM.
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 19th Mar 17, 4:12 PM
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    Hengus
    • #3
    • 19th Mar 17, 4:12 PM
    • #3
    • 19th Mar 17, 4:12 PM
    Just to add to MD's post. There are no plans to upgrade or replace SMETS1 meters to SMETS2 compliance. There is however an ongoing consultation to determine how best these meters can be grafted on to the DCC system without impacting on the security etc of the improved SMETS2 system.
    Last edited by Hengus; 19-03-2017 at 6:23 PM. Reason: Typo
    • Terry98
    • By Terry98 19th Mar 17, 5:23 PM
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    Terry98
    • #4
    • 19th Mar 17, 5:23 PM
    • #4
    • 19th Mar 17, 5:23 PM
    Thanks for the replies

    There must be 1000 posts on this forum about compatibility of smart meters between suppliers.
    Originally posted by matelodave
    I think I have read most of them and contributed to good a few of them

    Has anyone got any comments on this part of my post...........

    OVO say the SM's they supply are the same as FU's but FU have told me in an email 'because we didn't install your Smart Meter we can't take a remote reading from it'. Is that is right or is it some CS op just saying that without looking into it?
    • molerat
    • By molerat 19th Mar 17, 5:35 PM
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    molerat
    • #5
    • 19th Mar 17, 5:35 PM
    • #5
    • 19th Mar 17, 5:35 PM
    Although the meters are the same the new phase 1 meters are only set up to communicate with the installing supplier. The new meters will not communicate directly with the supplier but with a new network intermediary who will then pass on the readings to whoever the meter is registered to.
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    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 19th Mar 17, 5:39 PM
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    matelodave
    • #6
    • 19th Mar 17, 5:39 PM
    • #6
    • 19th Mar 17, 5:39 PM
    The comment is that even though the meters may be the same the networks that they communicate with aren't. They may have different protocols, talk to different software and even use different GSM providers.

    If you want more info speak with OVO or FU, they hopefully know how their networks and software works but I doubt that they even talk to each other
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 19th Mar 17, 6:35 PM
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    Hengus
    • #7
    • 19th Mar 17, 6:35 PM
    • #7
    • 19th Mar 17, 6:35 PM
    The comment is that even though the meters may be the same the networks that they communicate with aren't. They may have different protocols, talk to different software and even use different GSM providers.

    If you want more info speak with OVO or FU, they hopefully know how their networks and software works but I doubt that they even talk to each other
    Originally posted by matelodave
    Ovo's smart meter might use Vodafone and FU might use O2's network. One might have excellent reception whereas the other might not. All suppliers are required to carry out a communications check before installing a smart meter. There is no incentive for suppliers just to send out an engineer to play with a meter that they didn't supply.

    The new generation meters work on a Wide Area Network(WAN) which means if a particular meter cannot communicate directly with the new DCC, it will network with adjoining meters until it finds one with a connection back to the DCC.
    • Terry98
    • By Terry98 20th Mar 17, 5:52 AM
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    Terry98
    • #8
    • 20th Mar 17, 5:52 AM
    • #8
    • 20th Mar 17, 5:52 AM
    OVO thinks FU should be able to use their Smart Meters.

    This is what they say
    'At OVO we use Secure smart meters. The only other suppliers currently using the same kind of Secure smart meters are E.ON, First Utility and Utilita. So if you decide to move to one of those suppliers, they’ll be able to communicate with your OVO smart meter'
    https://www.ovoenergy.com/ovo-answers/topics/all-about-switching/the-switching-process/will-my-smart-products-still-work-if-i-switch-provider.html

    That is why I asked if my reply from FU was just a CS rep writing from the top of their head.

    I live in London and can get a strong signal on most networks.

    In one of the 1000's of posts on here about Smart Meters I read that British Gas were company who supplied and fitted the most Smart Meters. Not because they have the most customers but because it was the best marketing tool to keep customers with them.They were not wrong!
    Last edited by Terry98; 20-03-2017 at 3:05 PM.
    • picks
    • By picks 20th Mar 17, 10:12 AM
    • 181 Posts
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    picks
    • #9
    • 20th Mar 17, 10:12 AM
    Can anyone organise a !!!!-up in a brewery?
    • #9
    • 20th Mar 17, 10:12 AM
    OVO thinks FU should be able to use their Smart Meters.

    This is what they say
    'At OVO we use Secure smart meters. The only other suppliers currently using the same kind of Secure smart meters are E.ON, First Utility and Utilita. So if you decide to move to one of those suppliers, they’ll be able to communicate with your OVO smart meter'
    https://www.ovoenergy.com/ovo-answers/topics/all-about-switching/the-switching-process/will-my-smart-products-still-work-if-i-switch-provider.html

    That is why I asked if my reply from FU was just a CS rep writing from the top of their head.

    I live in London and can get a strong signal on most networks.

    In one of the 1000's of posts on here about Smart Meters I read that British Gas were company who supplied and fitted the most Smart Meters. Not because they have the most customers but because they it was the best marketing tool to keep customers with them.They were not wrong!
    Originally posted by Terry98
    As is apparent from both this thread and others on MSE, the move to energy smart metering is a total shambles. We're constantly bombarded by MSE and others with exhortations promising us huge savings of money by switching suppliers. We're fooled into thinking the energy supplier change can be completed in a few minutes. Instead, those of us with smart meters may be involved with weeks or even months of hassle due to the massive national smart metering c*ck-up.

    For example, at the end of January 2017 I came to the end of a fixed term energy contract. Now more than 6 weeks later I'm still trying to cope with the fall out. My proposed new supplier told me they didn't do smart metering in my area and so my existing smart meter was useless to them. In order to try to avoid being relegated back to the Flintstone era of meter men arriving on the back of a dinosaur I checked with my current supplier (E.ON) that I was at least able to take consumer meter readings from the in-house display attached to my meters. The answer was "no", I would have to risk breaking my neck clambering up a wall to read my gas meter. After extensive hassle I managed to strike a deal with E.ON where they would change my smart meters for smarter meters where I could take a meter reading from the display. This was done a month ago. What E.ON "forgot" to tell me is that my display shows gas meter readings in kWh whereas they demand my consumer readings must be supplied to them in cubic metres. I asked "how do I get a meter reading in cubic metres?" to which the answer was "climb up the wall and take a reading from the meter itself!"

    What a shambles! If that wasn't bad enough, the current generation of smart meters work with gsm communication technology. I understand that within a few years the gsm network is being closed down, so the fact that you may have good coverage will become irrelevant as all the old generation meters will become useless anyway. Sure, there is a proposed roll out of new generation of smart meters to get over all the problems, but the bad news is that the changeover is not being properly co-ordinated so no doubt further disasters will follow.

    We keep hearing claims in the press that our government is in chaos with Brexit, NHS, social care, prisons etc, etc. Is there anybody in authority in this country who can organise a p*ss-up in a brewery?
    Last edited by picks; 20-03-2017 at 11:40 AM. Reason: spelling
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 20th Mar 17, 11:27 AM
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    Hengus
    As is apparent from both this thread and others on MSE, the move to energy smart metering is a total shambles. We're constantly bombarded by MSE and others with exhortations promising us huge savings of money by switching suppliers. We're fooled into thinking the energy supplier change can be completed in a few minutes. Instead, those of us with smart meters may be involved with weeks or even months of hassle due to the massive national smart metering c*ck-up.

    For example, at the end of January 2017 I came to the end of a fixed term energy contract. Now more than 6 weeks later I'm still trying to cope with the fall out. My proposed new supplier told me they didn't do smart metering in my area and so my existing smart meter was useless to them. In order to try to avoid being relegated back to the Flintstone era of meter men arriving on the back of a dinosaur I checked with my current supplier (E.ON) that I was at least able to take consumer meter readings from the in-house display attached to my meters. The answer was "no", I would have to risk breaking my neck clambering up a wall to read my gas meter. After extensive hassle I managed to strike a deal with E.ON where they would change my smart meters for smarter meters where I could take a meter reading from the display. This was done a month ago. What E.ON "forgot" to tell me is that my display shows gas meter readings in kWh whereas they demand my consumer readings must be supplied to them in cubic metres. I asked "how do I get a meter reading in cubic metres?" to which the answer was "climb up the wall and take a reading from the meter itself!"

    What a shambles! If that wasn't bad enough, the current generation of smart meters work with gsm communication technology. I understand that within a few years the gsm network is being closed down, so the fact that you may have good coverage will become irrelevant as all the old generation meters will become useless anyway. Sure, there is a proposed roll out of new generation of smart meters to get over all the problems, but the bad news is that the changeover is not being properly co-ordinated so now doubt further disasters will follow.

    We keep hearing claims in the press that our government is in chaos with Brexit, NHS, social care, prisons etc, etc. Is there anybody in authority in this country who can organise a p*ss-up in a brewery?
    Originally posted by picks
    ALL suppliers will accept smart meter switches as all smart meters can be read by the home owner. What I sense you are asking is 'will my existing smart meter communicate with you"? The answer to this is invariably no as the Govt directed that the foundation stage of the project should be supplier dependent. Why - because the final specification for the next generation of smart meters had yet to be developed, and the Data Communications Company was yet to be agreed.

    The bigger problem that the Govt and industry now face is that the whole project is shifting to the right which means that more foundation meters than was first envisaged have been deployed. The Govt is now insisting that the industry finds a way of grafting these meters on to the Data Communications Network by 2020.

    Yes - I agree. It is a complete mess.
    • Raxiel
    • By Raxiel 20th Mar 17, 1:23 PM
    • 418 Posts
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    Raxiel
    It's confusing because there are examples of new suppliers being able to fully take over existing SMETS v1 smart meters, but as you've discovered it's not clear exactly which meter and supplier combinations will work.

    For example, there was a post here earlier in the year, from someone who had E.ON supplied smart meters, who moved to Bristol Energy. As well as remote reads, Bristol were able to push the correct tariff information to the meter so even the IHD still worked.

    I don't know which meter it was, E.ON fitted me with Secure meters (same as OVO and FU).
    • picks
    • By picks 20th Mar 17, 3:22 PM
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    picks
    It's confusing because there are examples of new suppliers being able to fully take over existing SMETS v1 smart meters, but as you've discovered it's not clear exactly which meter and supplier combinations will work.
    Originally posted by Raxiel
    Worse than that, the suppliers themselves either don't know or give you incorrect information. Consumers are being bombarded with the Switch in a few minutes and save a fortune on energy costs propaganda, yet I've not seen any of these Switch Supplier fanatics ever mention possible practical problems with things like metering.
    Last edited by picks; 20-03-2017 at 3:23 PM. Reason: spelling
    • Rubidium
    • By Rubidium 20th Mar 17, 3:52 PM
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    Rubidium
    Worse than that, the suppliers themselves either don't know or give you incorrect information. Consumers are being bombarded with the Switch in a few minutes and save a fortune on energy costs propaganda, yet I've not seen any of these Switch Supplier fanatics ever mention possible practical problems with things like metering.
    Originally posted by picks
    Most savvy switchers have not been taken in by "Gaz & Lecky" and have simply said no to smarts meters. In a couple of years when they are all installing SMETS2 meters and the DCC is working without problems, then OK but certainly not before as they are currently unfit for purpose.
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 20th Mar 17, 3:52 PM
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    matelodave
    Why does smart metering get so emotive. It's nice to have but not essential. I'd like it but I'm not upset that I don't have it and can't get it at the moment. I'll wait until they are available

    I've got a meter and it measures my leccy consumption and I can read it myself and send the info in or let the supplier guess and come a read it when he's ready. I could do that with a smart meter that's reverted to dumb so it doesn't really matter what sort of meter I've got.

    The fact that meters aren't yet compatible across the suppliers isn't really the catastrophe that some make out and it's not a barrier to swapping suppliers - lets get a sense of perspective.

    I agree that the introduction of them and the infrastructure to support them is a total shambles and is probably going to cost twice as much as if it had been properly managed in the first place. Letting all the suppliers do their own thing for several years just to see who could do it better wasn't actually a very good idea.

    Even the present system with a central database for dumb meters doesn't work all that well because people are involved and records don't get updated or corrected properly.

    I can't see that the DCC will be significantly better because that will still rely on someone telling them that a new meter has been installed and needs to be activated and monitored. Unless of course it's been designed to self activate (which I doubt) and it will still have to work with the miriad of suppliers and billing systems that exist at the moment

    I reckon it's still going to be quite a long time before it gets properly integrated with the suppliers who have all demonstated a dismal inability to sort out any upgrades or modifications to their own systems, let alone getting themselves connected and integrated into another network & database.
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    • picks
    • By picks 20th Mar 17, 4:26 PM
    • 181 Posts
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    picks
    Why does smart metering get so emotive. It's nice to have but not essential.
    Originally posted by matelodave
    That depends on the individual circumstances. When my smart meters were first fitted a couple of years back the gas meter was left in a position where it's pretty much impossible for me to read without risking me breaking my neck. Since the meters were being read automatically and remotely this was not a problem at all. However in order to satisfy the Switch and save huge amounts on your energy bills campaign I was put in a potential position where to switch to a new supplier might save me £60/year at a cost of my having to read my meters manually (the meter man on his dinosaur would inevitably miss me when he made his annual call). It's up to each of us to suit ourselves, but I'm not prepared to risk serious injury to save £60/year.
    • Terry98
    • By Terry98 20th Mar 17, 5:21 PM
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    Terry98
    Why does smart metering get so emotive. It's nice to have but not essential. I'd like it but I'm not upset that I don't have it and can't get it at the moment. I'll wait until they are available

    I've got a meter and it measures my leccy consumption and I can read it myself and send the info in or let the supplier guess and come a read it when he's ready. I could do that with a smart meter that's reverted to dumb so it doesn't really matter what sort of meter I've got.
    Originally posted by matelodave
    Yes smart meters are not essential but when you have them and they work well it's hard to do without them. It tells me what my monthly bill will be before I get it. No more estimated bills, no more big bills or built up massive credits.

    Do you really want your supplier to guess your bill and then send you a proper one when they feel like it?
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 20th Mar 17, 5:29 PM
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    Hengus
    Yes smart meters are not essential but when you have them and they work well it's hard to do without them. It tells me what my monthly bill will be before I get it. No more estimated bills, no more big bills or built up massive credits.

    Do you really want your supplier to guess your bill and then send you a proper one when they feel like it?
    Originally posted by Terry98
    I can get the same information from a 99p app called meters. It does require 2 minutes of work a month to enter 2 meter readings.
    • Rubidium
    • By Rubidium 20th Mar 17, 5:39 PM
    • 658 Posts
    • 437 Thanks
    Rubidium
    Yes smart meters are not essential but when you have them and they work well it's hard to do without them. It tells me what my monthly bill will be before I get it. No more estimated bills, no more big bills or built up massive credits.

    Do you really want your supplier to guess your bill and then send you a proper one when they feel like it?
    Originally posted by Terry98
    That is really pathetic!

    You don't get estimated bills if you simply provide regular meter readings yourself.
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 20th Mar 17, 5:55 PM
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    matelodave
    That is really pathetic!

    You don't get estimated bills if you simply provide regular meter readings yourself.
    Originally posted by Rubidium
    I agree whole heartedly, some people just get out of their tree because they can.
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    • Terry98
    • By Terry98 21st Mar 17, 5:44 AM
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    Terry98
    That is really pathetic!

    You don't get estimated bills if you simply provide regular meter readings yourself.
    Originally posted by Rubidium
    You obviously don't read many posts on this forum. I have not got the time to search properly for every post that complains about ignored meter readings but here are two to start with ......

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5478390&highlight=meter+readings+ ignored

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5318208&highlight=meter+readings+ ignored

    There must be a few 100 more if you use the right search criteria.
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