Has Marks and Spencer refused you a refund? Post details here.

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  • Sy1
    Sy1 Posts: 52 Forumite
    I've just noticed this thread and have been reading people's comments with interest as I used to work for M&S up until about 3 years ago. I spent 4 years or so working there part-time and 2-3 years of this was spent on the Customer Services Desk dealing with Refunds & Exchanges.

    My experience there was a real eye-opener, and for those of you criticising staff for being suspicious of everyone without a receipt, I can tell you several stories which would make you suspicious!

    I have seen cases of people ripping labels out of M&S suits and stitching them into cheap non-M&S suits to return for refunds, people stealing left-over M&S green till rolls and printing their own receipts for stolen goods, and people trying to return stock from the 1960s! I've seen every scam and could not believe the lengths people will go to to make a bit of money with a fraudulent refund.

    When I worked there the policy was still very open - a refund to the method of payment with a receipt, or a refund in credit vouchers with no receipt. If the item was reduced in the sale, we would ask when the item was purchased and provide a refund according to the price of the item at that time as shown on the till - we took the customer's word for it.

    Obviously you are suspicious of people returning high-value items with no receipt - we regularly had emails about bulk quantities of suits and leather jackets etc being stolen from other stores in the area and had to be wary of people returning these items with no receipt in case they were stolen.

    You also become suspicious when you see the same faces returning high-value items frequently with no receipts. There used to be notorious 'customers' who would only ever shop during sales and would intentionally look for sale items which were not 'red-dotted' do they could return them without the receipt, claiming they purchased them before the sale at full price, in order to make a quick profit.

    When the refund policy was so loose and so open to abuse of these types, as a Sales Advisor you became very suspicious that some customers might be trying to get one over on you and the company. You have to ask yourself, if somebody genuinely purchased a high value item knowing that they may return it, then why wouldn't they keep the receipt?

    Staff on the Refunds desk were generally more experienced staff and as such were allowed by management to make their own decisions and managers were usually only called to assist if a customer kicked off, and the manager would generally back-up what the Sales Advisor had said.

    I personally think that it is great for M&S that they have tightened up on the refund policy as it used to be abused on such a massive scale. I also think that for the vast majority of people, 90 days is more than enough time to return an unwanted item. Why should people be allowed to return items months or years later? Usually, after 6 months or so all items have been reduced in the sale, and by allowing refunds after long periods of time old stock just hangs around for ages.

    The other point I find really interesting is the fact that people have been discussing the fact that staff are able to look up transactions.

    To clarify, based on my experience, the POS system does allow transaction searches up to roughly 12 months prior. The system can be searched by date/time, value of transaction, till number, sales advisor number, card number etc etc - it is very comprehensive.

    However, this system was only accessible by management and senior sales advisors. It was not a fast process, and to locate a specific transaction you would really need to know a customer's card number and card type, which not all customers have to hand.

    Because the transaction search is so slow and a manager would have to be called to do a search, it was rarely used and was generally used only in instances, for example, where a customer phoned in and said that they had asked for cashback and not received it. By doing a search a manager could find the sales advisor and ask them if they remembered giving cashback etc.

    I have to say, I really don't understand why people think M&S have a duty to do such a search to prove that a customer purchased an item or what price they paid - surely if returning an item a customer must hold some responsibility to retain their receipt if they buy an item knowing there is a chance they may wish to return it. You wouldn't try returning an item without a receipt to many other high street stores so why should M&S be any different?

    I think people generally expect the earth from M&S because in the past they have bent over backwards to help their customers. Unfortunately, a large volume of customers abused such open policies on a massive scale so the company has had to tighten things up. It's not unfair, if it was your business you'd do the same. And the policies M&S now use still seem to be very competitive in relation to the rest of the high street.

    Anyway, rant over! This is just a summary of what I saw at M&S when I worked on Refunds & Exchanges. I'm glad I'm no longer there or in retail but it was a really interesting job at the time and did really open my eyes! Knowing the lengths people will go to to pull off a scam and make a few quid has made me much less naive, and I'm not necessarily suspicious of people, but I'm much more confident questioning things I'm not totally sure are right!
  • Sy1 your post reminded me of a friend that worked on refunds when I worked at m&s.
    She had told me that someone ha tried it on and wanted a refund on a used pair of underwear.
    We used to laugh that if marks sold wedding dresses it was only a matter of time when someone would bring it back saying that they had only worn it once and blah blah blah.
    I think they do sell wedding dresses now.
  • ti1980
    ti1980 Posts: 1,528 Forumite
    Sy1, great post.
    I am one of many that still work at M&S and everyone who works there will have some stories to tell, especially if you have worked on customer services/refunds.
    The things people do to get refunds is sometimes unbelievable and it is the genuine customers that suffer in the end with stricter policies.
    I'm sure this is the case with larger stores as well such as Debenhams and John Lewis etc.
  • Sy1
    Sy1 Posts: 52 Forumite
    Underwear! Yes, I had forgotten about that! I have seen soiled underwear which colleagues have accepted back without proper inspection.

    I'm not sure if it is still the case, but M&S did used to accept underwear back, whereas most other stores do not due to hygiene issues.

    It's also worth bearing in mind that M&S return all refunded items directly back into stock on the shop floor - including underwear. Often there's no way of knowing if an item has been worn so any unsuspecting customer could potentially end up purchasing underwear which has been worn or tried on, and not necessarily tried on over another item.

    Swimwear always used to have the 'hygienic' plastic sticker, but underwear never used to have this.
  • malky39
    malky39 Posts: 700
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker First Post
    Forumite
    I too work for m&s for a good while in laideswear and just recently moved to foods and i thought some of the reasons for bring cloths back were laughable,but recently i had a customer returning spring rolls dated 1st jan they were bought on the 31st dec and her reason was the date was no good. So now its m&s's responsibility to check sell by dates for the customer
  • rammy007
    rammy007 Posts: 1,050
    First Post First Anniversary
    Forumite
    Sy1 wrote: »
    I've just noticed this thread and have been reading people's comments with interest as I used to work for M&S up until about 3 years ago. I spent 4 years or so working there part-time and 2-3 years of this was spent on the Customer Services Desk dealing with Refunds & Exchanges.

    My experience there was a real eye-opener, and for those of you criticising staff for being suspicious of everyone without a receipt, I can tell you several stories which would make you suspicious!

    I have seen cases of people ripping labels out of M&S suits and stitching them into cheap non-M&S suits to return for refunds, people stealing left-over M&S green till rolls and printing their own receipts for stolen goods, and people trying to return stock from the 1960s! I've seen every scam and could not believe the lengths people will go to to make a bit of money with a fraudulent refund.

    When I worked there the policy was still very open - a refund to the method of payment with a receipt, or a refund in credit vouchers with no receipt. If the item was reduced in the sale, we would ask when the item was purchased and provide a refund according to the price of the item at that time as shown on the till - we took the customer's word for it.

    Obviously you are suspicious of people returning high-value items with no receipt - we regularly had emails about bulk quantities of suits and leather jackets etc being stolen from other stores in the area and had to be wary of people returning these items with no receipt in case they were stolen.

    You also become suspicious when you see the same faces returning high-value items frequently with no receipts. There used to be notorious 'customers' who would only ever shop during sales and would intentionally look for sale items which were not 'red-dotted' do they could return them without the receipt, claiming they purchased them before the sale at full price, in order to make a quick profit.

    When the refund policy was so loose and so open to abuse of these types, as a Sales Advisor you became very suspicious that some customers might be trying to get one over on you and the company. You have to ask yourself, if somebody genuinely purchased a high value item knowing that they may return it, then why wouldn't they keep the receipt?

    Staff on the Refunds desk were generally more experienced staff and as such were allowed by management to make their own decisions and managers were usually only called to assist if a customer kicked off, and the manager would generally back-up what the Sales Advisor had said.

    I personally think that it is great for M&S that they have tightened up on the refund policy as it used to be abused on such a massive scale. I also think that for the vast majority of people, 90 days is more than enough time to return an unwanted item. Why should people be allowed to return items months or years later? Usually, after 6 months or so all items have been reduced in the sale, and by allowing refunds after long periods of time old stock just hangs around for ages.

    The other point I find really interesting is the fact that people have been discussing the fact that staff are able to look up transactions.

    To clarify, based on my experience, the POS system does allow transaction searches up to roughly 12 months prior. The system can be searched by date/time, value of transaction, till number, sales advisor number, card number etc etc - it is very comprehensive.

    However, this system was only accessible by management and senior sales advisors. It was not a fast process, and to locate a specific transaction you would really need to know a customer's card number and card type, which not all customers have to hand.

    Because the transaction search is so slow and a manager would have to be called to do a search, it was rarely used and was generally used only in instances, for example, where a customer phoned in and said that they had asked for cashback and not received it. By doing a search a manager could find the sales advisor and ask them if they remembered giving cashback etc.

    I have to say, I really don't understand why people think M&S have a duty to do such a search to prove that a customer purchased an item or what price they paid - surely if returning an item a customer must hold some responsibility to retain their receipt if they buy an item knowing there is a chance they may wish to return it. You wouldn't try returning an item without a receipt to many other high street stores so why should M&S be any different?

    I think people generally expect the earth from M&S because in the past they have bent over backwards to help their customers. Unfortunately, a large volume of customers abused such open policies on a massive scale so the company has had to tighten things up. It's not unfair, if it was your business you'd do the same. And the policies M&S now use still seem to be very competitive in relation to the rest of the high street.

    Anyway, rant over! This is just a summary of what I saw at M&S when I worked on Refunds & Exchanges. I'm glad I'm no longer there or in retail but it was a really interesting job at the time and did really open my eyes! Knowing the lengths people will go to to pull off a scam and make a few quid has made me much less naive, and I'm not necessarily suspicious of people, but I'm much more confident questioning things I'm not totally sure are right!
    I agree with everything you have said here the bottom line people do not take resposibility for their own actions and always find someone else to blame this goes for a lot of thing in life now,its a sad reflection of society i am afraid.
  • I recently tried to return a jacket which was a birthday present from my parents to the Broadmead branch of Marks & Spencer's in Bristol. The jacket itself had been purchased at full price before Christmas, which meant that the last day for a full refund was the 22nd of March 2008...

    Due to some strange sizing the jacket was very large in the chest but tight in the arms. This was obvious as soon as I tried it on, my parents had included the gift receipt in order for me to take it back. I looked round the store last Saturday (the 5th of January 2008) and found all the remaining jackets of the same type had been sold in the sale so I was unable to find one of the same style in the right size. I then joined the lengthy queue at the customer services desk and despite three customer service staff on duty had to wait the best part of half an hour to be told that I was not entitled to a refund as I only had a gift receipt, not the till receipt. She drew my attention to the back of the receipt which does in fact state
    'refunds on gift receipts will be given in credit vouchers'

    So despite having been able to produce a genuine receipt for item that had been purchased less than a fortnight previously, presented in a saleable condition in accordance with their requirements, I was only entitled to credit vouchers not a refund. I'll freely admit that I haven't shopped in Marks & Spencer's for clothes since I stopped going to school (it's been a while!) and their range looked the less appealing for having been thoroughly 'sold ' so I wasn't keen on credit. The customer service person insisted that I was only entitled to credit vouchers unless I had the original till receipt.

    My parents assumed that a gift receipt was equivalent to the till receipt, and why is it not? Why when you could have all the identifying information on the gift receipt you would need to trace the original purchase (i.e. a transaction ID) without having to include a total spent on the item. If MS had a 'returns' database to show when a transacted item has been returned, they wouldn't have the apparent problem of criminals 'returning' multiple stolen items using a duplicated receipt.

    Obviously had I accepted credit vouchers I would have been aware how much the item cost, just as much as if I had been refunded in cash.. So why are gift receipts so different? I can't help thinking that it's a convenient way of locking the recipients of gifts purchased at Marks & Spencer's into a further purchase at Marks & Spencer's should the item prove to be the wrong size, badly manufactured or faulty. Good business sense? Well not in this case, I might not have bought clothes from their shop but I used to purchase things from other departments.. They've lost this customer. Well done Marks.
  • anmojo
    anmojo Posts: 1 Newbie
    I bought a pair of trousers recently for £29.99, unfortunately I lost the receipt. I took them back 17 days later and was offered a credit voucher for 1p as they said the trousers had been discontinued!!

    I think the policy quoted on the reverse of receipts "If you do not have the receipt we will exchange or refund in credit vouchers at the current or our last selling price" is very misleading as no one would think they would only be offered 1p.
    bcl999 wrote: »
    M&S make a big thing about their returns policy but it seems thay are not always honouring it nowadays.

    I have heard of several instances recently where people have been refused refunds/credit vouchers specifically because they don't have the receipt or a "gift" receipt. This has been for items which have not been worn and are not excluded like food or toiletries for hygiene reasons. Apparently they say they are withdrawing the right to a refund in the individual case to get around Trading Standards complaints, although "statutory" rights remain.

    If this has happened to you (or happens with a Christmas gift return), please post details here, with a brief description of item, purchase price if known and the store where the return was refused. Please only post cases where they totally refuse a refund and they say the lack of a receipt is the reason for refusal.

    It's important to know whether this is becoming widespread. They need to either adhere to their advertised policy or alter the wording of that advertised policy.

    Maybe this could be made a "sticky" till we see if it is a real problem nationally or just a few cases?
  • vixarooni
    vixarooni Posts: 4,376
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Forumite
    neuralnet wrote: »
    I recently tried to return a jacket which was a birthday present from my parents to the Broadmead branch of Marks & Spencer's in Bristol. The jacket itself had been purchased at full price before Christmas, which meant that the last day for a full refund was the 22nd of March 2008...

    Due to some strange sizing the jacket was very large in the chest but tight in the arms. This was obvious as soon as I tried it on, my parents had included the gift receipt in order for me to take it back. I looked round the store last Saturday (the 5th of January 2008) and found all the remaining jackets of the same type had been sold in the sale so I was unable to find one of the same style in the right size. I then joined the lengthy queue at the customer services desk and despite three customer service staff on duty had to wait the best part of half an hour to be told that I was not entitled to a refund as I only had a gift receipt, not the till receipt. She drew my attention to the back of the receipt which does in fact state
    'refunds on gift receipts will be given in credit vouchers'


    So despite having been able to produce a genuine receipt for item that had been purchased less than a fortnight previously, presented in a saleable condition in accordance with their requirements, I was only entitled to credit vouchers not a refund. I'll freely admit that I haven't shopped in Marks & Spencer's for clothes since I stopped going to school (it's been a while!) and their range looked the less appealing for having been thoroughly 'sold ' so I wasn't keen on credit. The customer service person insisted that I was only entitled to credit vouchers unless I had the original till receipt.

    My parents assumed that a gift receipt was equivalent to the till receipt, and why is it not? Why when you could have all the identifying information on the gift receipt you would need to trace the original purchase (i.e. a transaction ID) without having to include a total spent on the item. If MS had a 'returns' database to show when a transacted item has been returned, they wouldn't have the apparent problem of criminals 'returning' multiple stolen items using a duplicated receipt.

    Obviously had I accepted credit vouchers I would have been aware how much the item cost, just as much as if I had been refunded in cash.. So why are gift receipts so different? I can't help thinking that it's a convenient way of locking the recipients of gifts purchased at Marks & Spencer's into a further purchase at Marks & Spencer's should the item prove to be the wrong size, badly manufactured or faulty. Good business sense? Well not in this case, I might not have bought clothes from their shop but I used to purchase things from other departments.. They've lost this customer. Well done Marks.

    I was going to post my responce to this thread anyway, but by chance youre a perfect case study for what im going to say.

    People Do Not Read Till Reciepts. They ignore all the important information on the back of a reciept that tells them basically every condition about returning an item.

    I have no clue why people overlook this small helpful feature. If its a gift for someone i always check the returns policy, likewise in a sale. Now youre parents bought you a jacket, i work in debenhams so i dunno what is on an M&S gift reciept but if it is anything like ours there is hardly any information on it what so ever. Now the reason you couldnt take it back (im guessing) is because the gift reciept doesnt have any information on it regarding how your parents paid for it, so all can be offered is a gift card. To me that sounds fair, because why should M&S lose that sale because youre parents were too lazy or whatever to read the back of a reciept?

    I find it very funny that you even say "theyve lost this customer" as if one bloke who never shops there matters anyway! We always laugh when people say that, cos 9 times out of 10 its the people who say that are the worst customers to come through the door and its fab to know they wont ever come back again.

    Sorry to be so blunt with you, but i really dunno what you expect? Its policy, its cleary stated and its your fault if you dont read a reciept. End of really.
  • wolvesfan18
    wolvesfan18 Posts: 419 Forumite
    ok im not being rude or whatever, but seriously, some of you guys are exactly the reason why we at m&s (staff) hate you.

    you do not think that we have store targets to meet etc so their is pressure on us to keep sales up - not refund it all back to you

    so theres a law saying you can return items. but its set at 14days. we offer 90 days with receipt. this is very good compared to others. for example, i returned something to republic the other day and they offer 14 days which i was just inside so i got it. if i go to m&s 4 months down the line and ask for a refund i must be prepared for them to say no. not kick up a fuss becuase its my fault i messed around this long knowing the procedure.

    the most vile ones are the ones who bring things sub £10 and demand to see a manager. ok see a manager, whats that gonna do? we only slag you off when you leave.

    the fact is if you buy something expect to be turned away if A) you bought it more than 90 days ago B) you dont have a receipt (most stores refuse point blank without one - and no, we dont have time to check bank records of individual customers, its not our problem and not worth our time) and C) if you bring it back in a condition unsuitable for resale.

    you cannot moan if you do not pass this criteria. FACT.

    yes i do see some customers get away with it - but thankfully not any longer.
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