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Post #50 needs edited to remove duplicated paragraphs.
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Many thanks for your condolences, much appreciated.
The term 'own' is, in my understanding, not quite correct. You won't see that word mentioned anywhere in property/land documents. The same as you don't see it in car registration documents.
What someone purchases is a 'title' to an undetermined plot of land owned by the Crown. The Crown owns the land, and individuals buy a title that permits them to build a house, graze cattle etc. The permissions are granted by the local 'authority'.
You can go and buy a title such as 'Lady Smetherwick of East Butley' in much the same way.
It all goes back to the days of Barons and Serfs, and subjects of The Realm. I won't go into details here, it would take years. lol. It's why we have Crown agents, such as the Land Registry, who handle the transfers of registration of title, and why they cannot get involved in what goes where.
In the olden days boundaries and claims to land were settled with swords and cannonballs, but I guess that is not an option that many of us would choose in modern times.0 -
I bet swords and cannonballs might have passed through your mind once or twice in the past year though!
The 'title' example you gave is apposite as I actually originate from Smethwick 0 -
As it is cold wet and windy today I've had a look at the planning documents for this site and yours. I've split your posts up into sections below to make my comments easier to understand.AnotherUserName wrote: »Firstly, no builder in their right mind is going to do anything that either touches the fence, or contravenes the restrictions laid out in the planning consent. This quite clearly states that any footfall upon the path is not permitted. It makes no reference to boundaries, it refers to the path.
I couldn't find anything in terms of a specific restriction on 'footfall' on the path - could you explain which document this is in and where? There is a separate discussion about footway provision at the front of the proposed properties, is it this you have read?AnotherUserName wrote: »He also has the flood drain to contend with. To redirect it will require 4 gardens to be dug up, it will be a very major project, and not one of us has any intention of agreeing to that.
The planning documents for his site suggest the issue of the storm drain is dealt with by the positioning of the buildings and the officers involved with drainage don't appear to be offering any objection or relevant comment - is there something subsequent to the application decision relevant to this?
The planning documents for your property suggest the storm drain is only 600x600mm. In drainage terms this is not large and so long as the drainage authority can be satisfied that capacity wouldn't be affected then it doesn't look that difficult to divert the drain within the boundaries of the development site if it did became necessary.AnotherUserName wrote: »The only way that I can force him to make anything 'official' is to erect the fence along the site boundary, the legal boundary, as shown in the planning consent for my build. If he wants access to the path then he will have to embark on a legal route to do so.
The plans for your planning consent don't, as far as I can see, show a 'legal' boundary. The 'existing site plan' (Dwg 1040/02) shows a red-lined boundary, but the annotation clearly states "Red line indicating site boundary" (my bold). In any event, as far as I know, a planning document doesn't constitute proof of ownership. The boundary shown on the plan might be the legal boundary, but this plan doesn't provide the evidence you may need.AnotherUserName wrote: »From my perspective, I purchased a house with a side access and a concrete path. This was what was described to me in the sales particulars, and was confirmed to me by my solicitors at the time, and by the company that built the property, and has been confirmed by the owner of the land prior to the build. I cannot change those contractual details. Either they were all right, or, they were all wrong.
Where I think you might come unstuck is what is shown on the plans, and what you have on site, appears to be a concrete path giving side access to both the East and West of your house. Unless anything specifies the side access was to the East of your house then it appears you have got what you paid for - a concrete path leading to the rear garden, albeit on the opposite side of your house to where you believe it to be. The path on the western side may not be as wide or convenient, but it could be argued that it is there as promised.
It really does sound like you have got a nightmare on your hands. I hope you are able to resolve it through negotiation rather than ending up with a court imposed solution."In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"0 -
I have been reading this with interest as I have had a boundary issue with my neighbour. I cannot work out how in some cases people seem to have access to a tribunal/adjudication by the Land Registry which resolves the issue but other cases are advised to instruct solicitors etc themselves which costs the individual (usually the "innocent" party) an arm and a leg and may never actually reach a solution??0
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As a note - if you do end up at a court imposed solution, then it's potentially worth making your solicitor aware of this thread. You don't seem to have said anything which might go against you, but if you wish to make arguments in court that contradict statements made here, and the other side becomes aware of this thread, then you might run into issues!0
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I bet swords and cannonballs might have passed through your mind once or twice in the past year though!
The 'title' example you gave is apposite as I actually originate from Smethwick
Modern day equivalent - some very fortuitous timing when deciding to water like mad with a hosepipe;)0 -
My own experience is that by the time the matter was presented to the Adjudicator, thousands of £ had been spent on legal advice and preparing the case.I have been reading this with interest as I have had a boundary issue with my neighbour. I cannot work out how in some cases people seem to have access to a tribunal/adjudication by the Land Registry which resolves the issue but other cases are advised to instruct solicitors etc themselves which costs the individual (usually the "innocent" party) an arm and a leg and may never actually reach a solution??
The other party then withdrew, offering no evidence.
This wasn't too bad an outcome, because a major obstacle to development was removed at a stroke and simply became part of the overall costs, but I'm sure the £6.5k or whatever that was wasted, could have come in handy!
Looking back, I'm not sure that the legal advice was terribly useful. I think people just assume it will be when faced with a challenge by someone who knows the ropes.0 -
But how does it get to an adjudicator in the first place? When I e-mailed the LR with my issue I was told I needed to get a solicitor and pursue a civil case as opposed to the LR looking at the evidence and making a decision..why can't the LR make a decision on anotherusernames issue or my one?0
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But how does it get to an adjudicator in the first place? When I e-mailed the LR with my issue I was told I needed to get a solicitor and pursue a civil case as opposed to the LR looking at the evidence and making a decision..why can't the LR make a decision on anotherusernames issue or my one?
BISCUIT1 - apologies for missing your earlier post on this
We can't resolve a boundary dispute so can't make any decision on such matters. We can provide the registered details, which includes information on the general boundaries only.
In the most simplest of terms we register the details but we are not an 'enforcer'
If we receive an actual application to register, for example a Determined Boundary and the neighbours don't agree then it can be referred to the Adjudicator but there has to be an application to register
And then there has to be a willingness from both parties (as Davesnave mentions) to go before the Adjudicator and argue their case
So a process is there, in many ways to keep such matters out of the courts, but if the parties disagree with the Adjudicator's findings then the option of going to court still remains
So our advice will invariably be to sort it between yourselves but if you cannot then legal advice is the next step to understand the legal process and also what you (both) can or can't do. After all such issues rarely involve just the legal boundary as this example confirms.“Official Company Representative
I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"0
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