On-grid domestic battery storage

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  • Alan_Brown
    Alan_Brown Posts: 200 Forumite
    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    I don't know much detail, so you'll need to do some googling, but there are inverter / DC side battery systems where for instance if the batt can absorb 2kW DC, the inverter will still be able to output 3.68kW AC.

    I don't think these need DNO approval as they are still 3.68kW limited, it's just redirecting some additional DC (not 'processing it') into the batts for later use.

    I suspect such a system will not be cheap, but if you want batts anyway, and are going to have to spend £1,500 anyway ..... then maybe?


    Thanks for the reply Mart. I'll wait for the DNO response to the formal application and take it from there. If they say it's OK to add the 2kw through the 1.6kw inverter free of charge, then there's no issue. If they start talking about a £1500 charge, I'll then see if they'll let me add the battery to balance the load. I believe the Growatt can be set up so that the battery only releases its energy once the solar panels are producing zero watts (i.e. at night). As you rightly say, if I have to spend £1500 then I'd rather spend it on my batteries than on their grid infrastructure.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,760 Forumite
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    One of the DNO's is launching a storage fast track application process, so it looks like the DNO's may be getting on board with the whole idea so more good news ... though I admit to not knowing there was/is an application process?

    UKPN unveils fast track process for small-scale storage

    The helpful folk on Navitron have cleared up my confusion about DNO involvement.

    It's actually quite simple, they need to give prior approval (like PV) if the batt can discharge more than 3.68kW, which may be exported. So it all makes sense, and for most of us we won't want our batts discharging to the grid ..... unless members of a scheme where we get paid peak pricing for it.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • Sterlingtimes
    Sterlingtimes Posts: 2,395 Forumite
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    My long-term export percentage of electricity generated is 19. Rarely in a day do I export more than 19%. I presume the batteries lend themselves better to the high percentage exporter.
    I have osteoarthritis in my hands so I speak my messages into a microphone using Dragon. Some people make "typos" but I often make "speakos".
  • silverwhistle
    silverwhistle Posts: 3,791 Forumite
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    Even with a diverter I achieve nothing like that. Mind you, as I've always been single and lived on my own I tend to forget the impact of having more people in the house!
  • Sterlingtimes
    Sterlingtimes Posts: 2,395 Forumite
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    We do not have to work very hard to use our solar generation: it works out this way pretty naturally. The baseload I think is about 300 W and that goes some way to helping maximising use when the sun isn't shining.
    I have osteoarthritis in my hands so I speak my messages into a microphone using Dragon. Some people make "typos" but I often make "speakos".
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,760 Forumite
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    My hopes of a decent battery package (for my needs) by 2020 have gone up slightly. Previously the pretty reliable BNEF had predicted Li-ion prices dropping from around $250/kWh (early 2017) to $73/kWh by 2030. But this article suggests:-

    Study finds that storage prices are falling faster than PV and wind technologies
    Energy storage projects may bring the cost per kWh of a lithium-ion battery down from $10,000/kWh in the early 1990’s to $100/kWh in 2019, according to a new study written by a research team from University of California and TU Munich in Germany, and published in Nature Energy.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • zeupater
    zeupater Posts: 5,355 Forumite
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    My hopes of a decent battery package (for my needs) by 2020 have gone up slightly. Previously the pretty reliable BNEF had predicted Li-ion prices dropping from around $250/kWh (early 2017) to $73/kWh by 2030. But this article suggests:-

    Study finds that storage prices are falling faster than PV and wind technologies
    Hi

    I seem to remember that Tesla/Musk predicted $100/kWh for batteries by 2020 some time ago, so there's a question on whether the study based the price on research ... or ... the research to fit the price ....

    Anyway, it's not rocket science as everything which is viably marketable has a viable market price ....
    zeupater wrote: »
    Hi

    Battery storage for grid-tied systems only really starts to get interesting when installed prices fall below £200/kWh, so somewhere below £1500 for a Tesla/Panasonic type/size system. If there's no scheme to support initial roll-out it'll takes quite a while to reach this price-point, however, I can't really see substantial numbers of unsubsidised installations happening at anywhere much above £120/kWh (installed), with many seeing £100/kWh as a major threshold. This likely means that larger capacity systems will need to become popular first due to the diluting effect of capacity on installation and control equipment (inverter, monitoring etc) ...

    HTH
    Z
    .... so to meet that kind of pricing and start to drive the demand required to make serious inroads into domestic battery solution purchases, batteries would need to hit the $100/kWh mark pretty quickly .... and the manufacturers know it !!

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    B)
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,760 Forumite
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    zeupater wrote: »
    Hi

    I seem to remember that Tesla/Musk predicted $100/kWh for batteries by 2020 some time ago,

    Evening.

    Musk has a habit of making crazy predictions that are impossible. He also has a habit of being right, clever clogs.

    Clearly I'm easily pleased, but I'm actually getting a little excited about the second half of 2017, we could see:
    1. Some more solid news on battery progress.
    2. Confirmation of unsubsidised builds for on-shore wind and PV (at least as PPA packages), possibly 2018/19.
    3. Off-shore wind contract announcements at sub HPC 2012 prices, so below £92.50, hopefully in the £80's and even a slim chance of a deal that starts with a 7.
    4. An insanely low coal contribution to leccy for 2017, with a cliff like curve from 2014 onwards.

    and maybe, possibly, soon:

    5. Possibly more info on Perovskite panels reaching production, perhaps 2018/19.
    6. Solar tiles for newbuilds, and maybe some requirement for generation and/or storage.

    For an industry/area where things take decades, this is almost like watching in fast forward.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • zeupater
    zeupater Posts: 5,355 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Combo Breaker
    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    .... For an industry/area where things take decades, this is almost like watching in fast forward.
    Hi

    And how's this for a prediction .... :idea: .... Giga-factory battery plant somewhere in the south west in a triangle between Southampton, Bristol & Penzance ..... :D

    ... a little research followed by the application of a little logic & it doesn't seem to be as crazy an idea at it first seems ... it'd certainly put 'Brexit the cat' amongst the bremoning doom & gloom laden media pigeons ...

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    B)
  • duckvader
    duckvader Posts: 2 Newbie
    Hi All,
    I'm new to this forum, I am also new to solar and battery storage so am looking for some advice.
    I have got a brand new BMW i3 92ah 33kWh battery available to me FOC.
    I have been thinking about solar panels for quite a while now and would like to use the battery with solar panels. I think I can fit 10 panels on the roof.
    BMW have started using these batteries in a Tesla powerwall type set up but I can't find any info on it.
    My concern is that the battery is controlled by BUS messages from the cars electronics.
    What do you think?
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