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Rizzo_3 · 17 June 2005 at 10:28AM

mark_jones13 wrote:

Posts like this really make me angry. This site is full of people who want something for nothing. 40 years ago it would have cost £700 to go to Hong Kong which was equivilent to a few months wages. You can go these days for £500 which is equivilent to one week or a week and a half wages. Air travel is cheaper than its ever been. Flying in Club these days is still cheaper than flying in Economy years ago its just that people won't pay it.

Everyone on here always rants about high prices and airline profiteering (May I refer you to the "British Airways Rip Off" thread). Actually there are very few airlines that make a profit. If people want cheaper flights then they have to put up with less leg room. I don't really think that the BA business model can be faulted all that much because they are the most profitable airline in the world.

I would say you are very lucky if you earn enough in one week or even a week and a half to pay for a ticket to Hong Kong. You don't know how much I paid for my flight. It still took me the best part of a year to save enough to pay for my ticket and I would think that the majority of people are in a similar position.

I didn't go to the airport expecting an upgrade, I also didn't go expecting a lot of leg room. I accept that many people are probably after 'something for nothing' these days and that should not always be the case. But I don't think it's unreasonable on a 13 hour flight to ask for some element of comfort. Flights to Hong Kong in Economy currently range anywhere from £400 to around £2000. To fly Business Class with Swiss costs around £4000. You can't blame people for not wanting to pay that amount of money for one ticket.

It sounds like you have been flying in First Class too long and need to book yourself an Economy ticket so you can appreciate why people are looking for 'something for nothing'.

fatboyonadiet · 21 June 2005 at 12:40PM

Spoke to the hotel and they would upgrade us to a bigger room with better facilities (free internet, so can still log onto MSE!!!) and give us half-price airport transfers too!

Winter_Jasmine · 8 September 2005 at 5:10PM

Nothing to do with upgrades, but on the extra leg-room issue - we've just booked to fly to New York with Continental Airlines next March, directly via their website, and were able to pick which seats we wanted; needless to say, we've booked two seats by themselves with extra leg room!! We were absolutely amazed that we were able to do this, particularly as our tickets are only economy.

odowdchr · 8 September 2005 at 5:57PM

saffstar wrote:

Nothing to do with upgrades, but on the extra leg-room issue - we've just booked to fly to New York with Continental Airlines next March, directly via their website, and were able to pick which seats we wanted; needless to say, we've booked two seats by themselves with extra leg room!! We were absolutely amazed that we were able to do this, particularly as our tickets are only economy.

I hope you get the seats....though sometimes what you choose on the seat picker doesn't always come through on the tickets. I'd await your tickets and keep your fingers crossed :beer:

Winter_Jasmine · 11 September 2005 at 5:13PM

Well, Continental only issue e-tickets - we've already received ours and they do state the seat numbers. We'll still get to the airport good and early though, to try to avoid any 'funny business'!!!

wolvoman · 11 September 2005 at 5:40PM

Rizzo wrote:

Do we not reckon there's a case for the European Court of Human Rights here though? If the airlines stopped trying to cram as many people as they possibly could onto the planes then there would be no need for people to beg for upgrades.

What complete nonsense....

Do you know the reason why they cram so many seats into the economy section of an aircraft? Because you and I don't want to pay high airfares for the privelege of more room. No-one is forcing you to get on the plane, you could go by boat instead.

Cardew · 11 September 2005 at 8:47PM

wolvoman wrote:

Do you know the reason why they cram so many seats into the economy section of an aircraft? Because you and I don't want to pay high airfares for the privelege of more room. )

Absolutely correct.

In response to the complaints about legroom. American Airlines increased the legroom in Coach(economy)on all their flights to 35+ inches - their 'More Room Throughout Coach' campaign and did not increase fares at all. They kept their fares competitive with all of the other major carriers.
This legroom was 3-4 inches more than most of the airlines - BA, Virgin etc.

The campaign was a resounding failure! It hardly attracted any more customers and after a couple of years they put back in the extra seats and reverted to the 'industry standard.'

All Airlines have a dilemma.

Most of their profits come from those in Business/First class cabins – where prices are many times the discounted economy price. Very little profit comes from those in the rear of the plane.

From their research they know that it is first and foremost the extra room that these passengers value; nobody would pay £1000s extra for better meals and champagne.

If they make economy class more comfortable, even at a small premium, they only succeed in getting some potential Business/First class passengers to buy an economy ticket.

Gazza34 · 23 December 2005 at 11:16AM

The problem with the advice on bulkhead seats here is that it ignores the problem of small children. That row is where they are placed by airlines. So you are probably going to be one seat away from a child who will cry loudly - it clears their Eustachian tubes in their ears and is a very good thing for the child - as you take off and land. And often in between.
I fly very frequently on long inter-continental hauls and I am a frequent flyer and a club member and who knows what all else.
I always take an aisle seat and I keep away from the bulkheads. Upgrades, which were sort of frequent - the 10 percent figure quoted earlier was about right - are now less so and down into single figures.
Your best bet is a pair of noise-cancelling earphones (mine were $AUS50 from Jaycar in Sydney), a blow up neck rest and a damned good book. I flew from Bangkok to London last Sunday and it was nae bother.

LesD · 23 December 2005 at 12:22PM

Cardew wrote:

Absolutely correct.

In response to the complaints about legroom. American Airlines increased the legroom in Coach(economy)on all their flights to 35+ inches - their 'More Room Throughout Coach' campaign and did not increase fares at all. They kept their fares competitive with all of the other major carriers.
This legroom was 3-4 inches more than most of the airlines - BA, Virgin etc.

The campaign was a resounding failure! It hardly attracted any more customers and after a couple of years they put back in the extra seats and reverted to the 'industry standard.'

All Airlines have a dilemma.

Most of their profits come from those in Business/First class cabins – where prices are many times the discounted economy price. Very little profit comes from those in the rear of the plane.

From their research they know that it is first and foremost the extra room that these passengers value; nobody would pay £1000s extra for better meals and champagne.

If they make economy class more comfortable, even at a small premium, they only succeed in getting some potential Business/First class passengers to buy an economy ticket.

Hmmm.....what is 'profit'? We could create a whole new thread on that!

One thing we can say for certain is that there is an enormous range of prices paid by passengers on every single flight. Surely that must be good. Far more people now have the ability to find a price within their means for air travel.

The internet has also allowed passengers to know what they are getting for their money (leg room, catering, baggage allowance, customer service, etc.) so choosing the balance between price and product is now an informed decision.

Last, but by no means least, there is a wider range of carrier options and flight schedules than ever before so, in general, we can choose the route and timing that suits us. For instance, living in the Midlands, we can route round the world from BHX via a multitude of transit hubs where once we always had to get to Heathrow.

None of which has anything much to do with 'upgrades'! Except to say we all have a choice. Accept the product offered or go somewhere else. For me, getting an upgrade (not that I ever have!) would be seen as a bonus, not a critical aspect of my choice.

Barcode · 23 December 2005 at 1:30PM

BA upgrades are given out sparingly, and rightly so IMO, it devalues the product if too many people are given something for nothing. You would not go and buy a mini, expecting to be given a Rolls Royce, and the same principle applies here; it's nice to sit up front, but should be perceived as a bonus.

Since priority is not going to be given to the once-a-year-going-on-holiday flyers, your best bet is to find out the type of plane you will be flying on (read the confirmation) and check out the seating plan. I did this when I flew BA to San Francisco a few months ago. I requested seats in the last few rows - plenty of room to spread out. No problem, just boredom after 11 hours.

I'm 5'8 and don't seem to experience the apparently horrendous problems others do.

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