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VCS/BW Legal - writing defence
Comments
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MadHatter752 wrote: »So as predicted.... I am back as I have received a response and a deadline of 19 January 2017 to respond.
This is what they have said....
"The PCN was issued on the (date PCN was issued) at ********************************** on the basis that the vehicle registration ************* parked beyond the bay markings. As per the terms of the PCN, you were allowed 28 days to pay a discounted sum or appeal the PCN, two options of which have now expired.
We note from your correspondence that you state you were not the driver at the time of the PCN. As the details of the driver have not been forthcoming to suggest otherwise, our client, in the absence of the driver's details, reasonably presumes you were the driver and we refer you to the case of Elliott v Loake (1982).
Given the above, please contact us on ************************************* within 14 days of this letter.
Failure to contact us by 19 January 2017 may result in us seeking our client's instructions which may result in further legal action and costs being added to your Balance Due".
Any advice please on what I should reply next? I was honestly thinking that I wouldn't hear from them for a few months at least! doh.
thanks!!
MadHatter752
Your user name MadHatter should be used by BWLegal.
They quote utter rubbish with the Loake case
Read this ......
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/skipton-judge-rubbishes-elliot-v-loake.html
Parking company Rep asserts that Claimant relies on E v L as establishing that keeper was driver on Balance Of Probabilities.
Judge: “So, if I let someone drive my car, and they went to a petrol station and filled up, then drove off, or if they ran someone over, would I be liable?"
Rep: “No, because that would be different. That's criminal”.
Judge: “Well so is Elliot v Loake"
Does BWLegal want to be seen as idiots yet again in court.
I think we all know that BWLegal read this forum so maybe they will stop spouting such rubbish .... there again "pigs will fly"0 -
I was starting to relax a little bit again, however today I have received in the post a County Court Business Centre Claim Form, so they have obviously not given me until 19th January 2017 as they stated in their letter!!
I am actually scared now but I will go and do my research on the forum and see how I get one!!0 -
First things first you need to acknowledge the court papers via the MCOL website. Details for this in the bottom right of your claim form. Don't lose your gateway ID or password.
Follow the acknowledgment of service process (AOS) stating you intend to defend the claim in full.
IMPORTANT: DO NOT post anything in the defence box. Don't even start the defence process yet. Once acknowledged your have 28+5 days from the issue date to submit your defence. Use them to do lots of research, read other VCS/Excel defences and amend then to suit your case.
Post on here when you have something for review and further advice.0 -
MadHatter752 wrote: »I was starting to relax a little bit again, however today I have received in the post a County Court Business Centre Claim Form, so they have obviously not given me until 19th January 2017 as they stated in their letter!!
I am actually scared now but I will go and do my research on the forum and see how I get one!!
Do what Pugnator says. By the time it's allocated and a date set it will be probably be late feb.
BWLegal are complete blithering idiots especially with their stupid wheeze about Elliott v Loake
As you can see in this thread you have the perfect response spoken by a judge .... use it as menacing by BWLegal
Don't be worried, it's BWLegal who should be worried as they are flawed and one would imagine the courts are fully aware of their silly antics, the one thing for certain is they are not professionals
You will get all the help you need here.
The brains on this forum far outway those of this amateur set up.
One can only assume that these stupid letters are copy and paste by their tea boy0 -
First things first you need to acknowledge the court papers via the MCOL website. Details for this in the bottom right of your claim form. Don't lose your gateway ID or password.
Follow the acknowledgment of service process (AOS) stating you intend to defend the claim in full.
IMPORTANT: DO NOT post anything in the defence box. Don't even start the defence process yet. Once acknowledged your have 28+5 days from the issue date to submit your defence. Use them to do lots of research, read other VCS/Excel/BWL defences and amend then to suit your case.
Post on here when you have something for review and further advice.
Thank you Pugnator, I have just been on the MCOL site and done this. I am assuming it will be Monday earliest before I hear anything.As you can see in this thread you have the perfect response spoken by a judge .... use it as menacing by BWLegal
which thread are you referring too?
In all honesty I wish I had just paid at the time... the stress and the hassle this is causing but I almost get annoyed at myself for thinking that because these firms are victimising so many people. I saw an elderly gentleman in the same carpark my car had a PCN slapped on it get one, and I mentioned what I had found out and told his family to look into it but what chance has he got when he is about 80 years old?! No doubt he will just pay. I felt at the time that I had to fight the PCN for all those who can't.
I spent my lunch hour at work trying to read through advice on the site in trying to formulate what I need to say and quote in my defence but it just mindboggles me completely and I learnt nothing. Even though there is so much help on here, and I do really appreciate it, the time it consumes... it would have been more cost effective to pay!!
Unfortunately, my husband has just received a PCN from APCOA from Bham Airport and I think he is just going to pay his after all the stress it has seen it has caused me.
Incidentally.... now that the Claim Form has been issued, should I still reply to BW Legal who wrote to me on 5th Jan telling me to reply before 19th Jan... they clearly have passed the claim on before letting me reply.... :mad:
thanks for your help, I think I just ranted a bit above - sorry. I really do appreciate your help though.
Kind regards
MadHatter7520 -
MadHatter752 wrote: »Thank you Pugnator, I have just been on the MCOL site and done this. I am assuming it will be Monday earliest before I hear anything.
which thread are you referring too?
In all honesty I wish I had just paid at the time... the stress and the hassle this is causing but I almost get annoyed at myself for thinking that because these firms are victimising so many people. I saw an elderly gentleman in the same carpark my car had a PCN slapped on it get one, and I mentioned what I had found out and told his family to look into it but what chance has he got when he is about 80 years old?! No doubt he will just pay. I felt at the time that I had to fight the PCN for all those who can't.
I spent my lunch hour at work trying to read through advice on the site in trying to formulate what I need to say and quote in my defence but it just mindboggles me completely and I learnt nothing. Even though there is so much help on here, and I do really appreciate it, the time it consumes... it would have been more cost effective to pay!!
Unfortunately, my husband has just received a PCN from APCOA from Bham Airport and I think he is just going to pay his after all the stress it has seen it has caused me.
Incidentally.... now that the Claim Form has been issued, should I still reply to BW Legal who wrote to me on 5th Jan telling me to reply before 19th Jan... they clearly have passed the claim on before letting me reply.... :mad:
thanks for your help, I think I just ranted a bit above - sorry. I really do appreciate your help though.
Kind regards
MadHatter752
Post # 12 on this thread saying
Parking company Rep asserts that Claimant relies on E v L as establishing that keeper was driver on Balance Of Probabilities.
Judge: “So, if I let someone drive my car, and they went to a petrol station and filled up, then drove off, or if they ran someone over, would I be liable?"
Rep: “No, because that would be different. That's criminal”.
Judge: “Well so is Elliot v Loake"
You can pay up if you wish but what pleasure will you get allowing the car park scammers and their nutcase legal company BWLegal enjoying your hard earned money.
If you want to reply to BWLegal, ask them to advise and confirm what their own interpretation is of Elliot v Loake
Elliot v Loake was a criminal case where forensics was used to determine the driver. Yours is a simple civil case and has no bearing on Elliot v Loake.
If BWLegal will not answer, you reserve the right to request the court to ask the same question to BWLegal
Please do not pay ..... you will be helped all the way
As for your husband, please start a new thread for all the help.
The droids APCOA are easy to beat0 -
Absolutely agreed. APCOA and an airport ticket is the easiest combination to beat. Just use templates (copy and paste) with forum advice and this will be over in no time. Get this one out of your life with very little effort - they give up when facing someone who is clearly being helped by a forum.As for your husband, please start a new thread for all the help.
The droids APCOA are easy to beat
But he needs a new thread of his own.
And why was he ticketed? Because of others who meekly pay up, encouraging the persecution and pursuit of those least able to help themselves. He may be totally oblivious to help he could get from the Internet, he will no doubt think he's done something 'wrong', and like many of his generation will comply with any 'instruction' seemingly coming from an 'authority'.I saw an elderly gentleman in the same carpark my car had a PCN slapped on it get one, and I mentioned what I had found out and told his family to look into it but what chance has he got when he is about 80 years old?! No doubt he will just pay.Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street0 -
MadHatter752, as above DON'T PAY IT! You would only be feeding the beast so it can attack more innocent victims.
The comments about APCOA are accurate you should be able to dispose of that one with minimal effort and research.
Use the search box to search keywords like "VCS" "Excel" (same company), "BW Legal" as well as the name of the location you got your ticket. You'll have to do a bit of reading but you'll find a defence that you can edit to suit your case (probably quite a few) .
Doesn't matter if you don't understand most of it, post it on here and let's take it from there.0 -
You seem to know a lot, Pugnator. Interesting Latin name choice.
Obviously a night owl like me as well.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
Coupon-mad wrote: »You seem to know a lot, Pugnator. Interesting Latin name choice.
Obviously a night owl like me as well.
I'm one of those irritating bvggers who's always asking annoying questions.
Can't go to bed while there's still merlot in my glass (note to self: get smaller wine glasses)0
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