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5 year old claim!!!
legranfromage
Posts: 17 Forumite
Hello - apologies for the urgency of this new post but I have recently returned from holiday to be welcomed by two letters (one from BW Legal and one from Vehicle Control Services Ltd) regarding an alleged contravention from 2011!!
Unfortunately the letters were dated 9th August 2016 and the letter advises me to make payment (total of £174) within 16 days from the date of the letter (which is today).
I only returned from holiday this week and have spent yesterday and this morning looking through all the threads to see if I can find guidance on how to tackle this. I think (but not 100% certain) I have found the template letter and approach I need to make, but wanted to check given the age of this alleged incident.
A bit of background:
Letter one - from VCS, states that I have failed to make arrangements to pay my account balance and it has now been sent to BW Legal, who are their approved service provider. The letter advises that BW Legal will contact me regarding the payment of the outstanding balance (the letter from BW Legal came in the same envelope I think). All future correspondence should now be referred to them with immediate effect.
I am then provided with the name and address and website.
The second letter, from BW Legal, spells out at the top who their client is, the PCN (Manual), date of contravention (2011), Vehicle registration (a car I used to own), the balance due, the contravention description (parking beyond bay markings) and the location
The body of the letter then details they have been instructed by VCS in relation to the balance due.
For the avoidance of doubt, the balance due includes £120 PCN charge plus client's legal costs of £54
As I have failed to make a payment or raise an appeal within 28 days, balance is outstanding and payment is required within 16 days from the date of the letter. Failure to make payment, or provide reasons for non-payment, they will see 'Our Client's' instructions to commence legal proceedings against me in the form of a County Court Claim Form in the County Court.
They then detail what I need to do next which summarises as contacting them to resolve the account. They are keen to work with me and they offer a customer portal where I can make a payment, advise of any disputes against the PCN and upload documentation to support my dispute.
The finish the letter with a warning about what happens in the event of County Court Proceeding, where I could incur further solicitor costs, and statutory interest. If the obtain a CCJ then it has a detrimental effect on credit worthiness and employability.
As mentioned previously, I have read through the threads, and there is tons of great information out there. However, my question is how to proceed with this given that it is 5 years old (and I have no recollection of the event) and that they have offered a portal to upload my appeal.
Do I ignore? Do I appeal? If so, via letter or the portal.
I have no idea why this has risen it's head after 5 years but I am keen to avoid any court action (if that is a possibility)
Many thanks in advance for your help. I am really keen to get this resolved today given the 16 day deadline expires today
Unfortunately the letters were dated 9th August 2016 and the letter advises me to make payment (total of £174) within 16 days from the date of the letter (which is today).
I only returned from holiday this week and have spent yesterday and this morning looking through all the threads to see if I can find guidance on how to tackle this. I think (but not 100% certain) I have found the template letter and approach I need to make, but wanted to check given the age of this alleged incident.
A bit of background:
Letter one - from VCS, states that I have failed to make arrangements to pay my account balance and it has now been sent to BW Legal, who are their approved service provider. The letter advises that BW Legal will contact me regarding the payment of the outstanding balance (the letter from BW Legal came in the same envelope I think). All future correspondence should now be referred to them with immediate effect.
I am then provided with the name and address and website.
The second letter, from BW Legal, spells out at the top who their client is, the PCN (Manual), date of contravention (2011), Vehicle registration (a car I used to own), the balance due, the contravention description (parking beyond bay markings) and the location
The body of the letter then details they have been instructed by VCS in relation to the balance due.
For the avoidance of doubt, the balance due includes £120 PCN charge plus client's legal costs of £54
As I have failed to make a payment or raise an appeal within 28 days, balance is outstanding and payment is required within 16 days from the date of the letter. Failure to make payment, or provide reasons for non-payment, they will see 'Our Client's' instructions to commence legal proceedings against me in the form of a County Court Claim Form in the County Court.
They then detail what I need to do next which summarises as contacting them to resolve the account. They are keen to work with me and they offer a customer portal where I can make a payment, advise of any disputes against the PCN and upload documentation to support my dispute.
The finish the letter with a warning about what happens in the event of County Court Proceeding, where I could incur further solicitor costs, and statutory interest. If the obtain a CCJ then it has a detrimental effect on credit worthiness and employability.
As mentioned previously, I have read through the threads, and there is tons of great information out there. However, my question is how to proceed with this given that it is 5 years old (and I have no recollection of the event) and that they have offered a portal to upload my appeal.
Do I ignore? Do I appeal? If so, via letter or the portal.
I have no idea why this has risen it's head after 5 years but I am keen to avoid any court action (if that is a possibility)
Many thanks in advance for your help. I am really keen to get this resolved today given the 16 day deadline expires today
0
Comments
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they will seek 'Our Client's' instructions to commence legal proceedings ...
They are acting as debt collectors and trying to frighten you into paying up.
Do they know the name of the driver? Did they mention Beavis?
You are not alone, there are plenty of these old claims coming out of the woodwork now, read a few here and here.
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=60
ignore unless/until they issue a letter before action, then copy it on this thread.
Please amplify "they have offered a portal to appeal", appeal to whom, about what, have they provided full details of the event?
It sounds to me as if they are fishing for the name of the driver, if they do not know who he/she was They are Friar Tucked.You never know how far you can go until you go too far.0 -
Guessed it was BW Legal before I read your post.
when was the ticket dated in 2011 ?
In law they have up to 6 years where they can claim.
The letter is a threat to plead with you to pay. BWLegal must have sent out 1000's of these letters recently, forums are full of BWLegal.
If they take everyone to court, our court system would be filled up with BWLegal which will alert the courts of this scam.
Who can remember 5 years ago ? A judge will not remember.
For these older cases, they can only go after the driver and as you will NOT state who the driver is, they know that, its just a try on to extort money from you.
There are plenty of such cases on here, search for BWLegal and decide if you really want to accept their nonsense.
As far as CCJ's are concerned they also know that can only happen if you lost and did not pay, that is up to a court to decide not the likes of the two bit BWLegal.
The best advice is not to play into the hands of these scammers and if, only if your get official court papers, come back here
BWLegal are being carefully monitored and as the Parking Prankster states
"BW Legal are therefore early contenders for The Prankster's "Most Incompetent Solicitors of The Year" annual award"
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=bw+legal
And VCS are not the smartest cookie on the block either
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=VCS0 -
Thank you both for your quick and comprehensive replies - this really is much appreciated.
The Deep - you ask if they know the name of the driver? Not to my knowledge. Certainly not from me as I recall but this is going back 5 years and my memory isn't that good. But not to my knowledge
Did they mention Beavis? No. No mention of them in either of the letters?
You asked to amplify around the portal. Their exact wording is... 'we are keen to work with you and one of the quickest ways to review you account is to register on our Customer Portal by visiting .....co.uk On here you can make a payment, advise us of any disputes against the PCN, upload documentation to support your dispute and communicate with us via web chat.
Call us today if you would prefer to discuss your account with one of our helpful team'
Beamerguy - you asked when was the ticket dated in 2011. 26th February 2011
Thank you both for the links and I will have a good read through them all. I think the message I am receiving is to ignore for the time being until when / if I receive official court papers.
Help is much appreciated0 -
legranfromage wrote: »Thank you both for your quick and comprehensive replies - this really is much appreciated.
The Deep - you ask if they know the name of the driver? Not to my knowledge. Certainly not from me as I recall but this is going back 5 years and my memory isn't that good. But not to my knowledge
Did they mention Beavis? No. No mention of them in either of the letters?
You asked to amplify around the portal. Their exact wording is... 'we are keen to work with you and one of the quickest ways to review you account is to register on our Customer Portal by visiting .....co.uk On here you can make a payment, advise us of any disputes against the PCN, upload documentation to support your dispute and communicate with us via web chat.
Call us today if you would prefer to discuss your account with one of our helpful team'
Beamerguy - you asked when was the ticket dated in 2011. 26th February 2011
Thank you both for the links and I will have a good read through them all. I think the message I am receiving is to ignore for the time being until when / if I receive official court papers.
Help is much appreciated
It's a pleasure. These are not people to contact especially by phone as they have trained droids to scare, threaten and harass you and once they have your number, they will keep phoning you.
The comment they made ..
we are keen to work with you and one of the quickest ways to review you account is to register on our Customer Portal by visiting .....co.uk On here you can make a payment, advise us of any disputes against the PCN, upload documentation to support your dispute and communicate with us via web chat.
Call us today if you would prefer to discuss your account with one of our helpful team'
Of course they are keen to contact you ... they want your money
as the dodgy ice they are skating on has thin cracks that will break.
6 months left until they can do nothing.
Do remember that prior to 2012 it is the driver information they need, not keeper information.
They will come out with all sorts of rubbish to get the driver info.0 -
Well, that's another BWL bonfire !!!!ed on.You never know how far you can go until you go too far.0
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You do need to respond to this letter to indicate that you're not someone who is burying their head in the sand (they are more likely to pursue ignorers in the hope of a default judgment and CCJ against you).
This action by BWL on behalf of VCS and their sister company Excel is relatively new (about last 6 weeks) and all the parking forums, especially here and PePiPoo, are awash with these cases. Dozens each day.
Generally speaking PePiPoo has more 'legal' contributors than here, although some post here and some of us post there. The one PePiPoo contributor who is held in high regard for their ability to pen piercing letters to issue to solicitors and PPCs to show that the individual is not going to be a pushover, is Gan. As you read other BWL threads you will find people being advised to 'send a Gan letter'. So here is a Gan letter for you to use at this point in your case.Dear Sir
Ref ****
Thank you for your letter dated ****
I deny any debt to Vehicle Control Services
I note that the alleged parking event was five years ago. This pre-dates the Protection of Freedoms Act and your client has no right to pursue me as the registered keeper.
It should also not be necessary that I, as a consumer, must remind you that your £54 legal charges cannot be recovered in the Small Claims Court. They are not my concern and I refer you to CPR 27.14.
In the event of legal action, I will invite the court to consider whether your client's delay amounts to unreasonable behaviour
My position is final. Don't contact me again unless to confirm that your client has issued proceedings. I will not reply.
Yours faithfully
Do use that, exactly as it is written. Do note that this won't resolve the matter and you are likely to receive a further template reply from BWL - but you have made your point and you will point this to a judge should this get to court. This is the start of the paper trail and you now need to keep copies of everything you send or receive.
Whilst your initial issue was a parking charge notice, this has now moved towards a small claims court case.
The main expertise on this forum is fighting private parking charges at the initial stages of the process. We do not purport, as a very small group of forum regulars, to have legal experience or qualifications. In many respects once legal action commences many of us are outside our pay grade and so the advice may not necessarily be as comprehensive or firmly based as that given at the early stages of a PCN.
In fact you may feel that you are not receiving many responses at all, but no one will give advice unless they are confident that it is correct and in your best interest, and now you are involved in the legal process, there will be even greater hesitation.
That is not to say that regulars won't comment on your thread, some may even be able to advise quite confidently, but as you are now at the more serious end of the process, my advice is that you cast your net much wider and seek parallel advice from forums where there is probably a greater number of advisers with court/legal knowledge, qualification and experience.
So I recommend you, at least, read through the following forums to look at the advice being given in similar cases, and if you feel it necessary, you register with one/some/all forums and post there for complementary help and assistance.
MONEY SAVING EXPERT
Here on this forum, small claims court expert 'bargepole' has put together a thumbnail guide to the process you need to follow should you be served with court papers, so something for possibly a little later in the process:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=61084955
LEGAL BEAGLES
http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?384-Parking-Live-Court-Claims
CONSUMER ACTION GROUP
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?88-Private-Land-Parking-Enforcement
PEPIPOO
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=SF&s=&f=60Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street0 -
Thanks again everyone for your replies.
So on Saturday I received another letter from BW Legal titled 'Discount Offer'.
The letter stated the same as the previous one in detailing BW Legal's client, account number, date of contravention, vehicle registration, balance due (£174), description of the contravention and location.
Wording of the letter is as follows:
Despite previous reminders you have failed to make arrangements to pay your PCN or provide detailed grounds for disputing the PCN.
This is a series Matter - A County Court Claim May Be Issued Against You
Our client may instruct us to commence County Court proceedings against you for recovery of the Balance. For the avoidance of doubt the Balance relates to the £120 PCN and £54 for our clients initial legal fees, which were detailed in the car park terms and conditions.
In the event our client issues County Court proceedings, and successfully obtains a County Court Judgement ("CCJ') you may be liable for the Balance, court fees, further solicitors costs and statutory interest. A CCJ may have a detrimental effect on your future credit worthiness and your employability. Our client also reserves the right to commence enforcement proceedings against you for recovery of any CCJ awarded
Claim your 40% discount today
as a last opportunity to resolve matters amicably, Our Client is willing to offer you a 40% discount against the PCN amount if you pay before 21 September 2016. If you take advantage of this offer, the revised amount you will pay is £126. This offer will expire by close of business on 21 September 2016, so it is very important that you contact us before that date to take advantage of the offer.
Do it Online
we appreciate that it may not always be convenient to call us, therefore why not review and take advantage of your discount offer online by visiting ...... and selecting the customer login option. Our customer portal provides you with the functionality to speak to us by web chat, complete your income and expenditure, make a payment or setup an affordable payment arrangement at your convenience
What to do next
It is important you contact us no later than 21 September 2016 to discuss the options available to you. We are here to assist you, but on export of the discount period on 21st September 2016 the offer will be withdrawn
Your faithfully......
+++++
So the question is what do I do next? I am obviously nervous by this and don't want to receive any CCJ's or court summons. It is an alleged incident over 5 years ago......
Shall I use the letter details Umkomaas above? Although I suspect this will not make the matter go away
Thanks again for all your continued help with this. How can something be claimed from over 5 years ago???0 -
legranfromage wrote: »Thanks again everyone for your replies.
So on Saturday I received another letter from BW Legal titled 'Discount Offer'.
The letter stated the same as the previous one in detailing BW Legal's client, account number, date of contravention, vehicle registration, balance due (£174), description of the contravention and location.
Wording of the letter is as follows:
Despite previous reminders you have failed to make arrangements to pay your PCN or provide detailed grounds for disputing the PCN.
This is a series Matter - A County Court Claim May Be Issued Against You
Our client may instruct us to commence County Court proceedings against you for recovery of the Balance. For the avoidance of doubt the Balance relates to the £120 PCN and £54 for our clients initial legal fees, which were detailed in the car park terms and conditions.
In the event our client issues County Court proceedings, and successfully obtains a County Court Judgement ("CCJ') you may be liable for the Balance, court fees, further solicitors costs and statutory interest. A CCJ may have a detrimental effect on your future credit worthiness and your employability. Our client also reserves the right to commence enforcement proceedings against you for recovery of any CCJ awarded
Claim your 40% discount today
as a last opportunity to resolve matters amicably, Our Client is willing to offer you a 40% discount against the PCN amount if you pay before 21 September 2016. If you take advantage of this offer, the revised amount you will pay is £126. This offer will expire by close of business on 21 September 2016, so it is very important that you contact us before that date to take advantage of the offer.
Do it Online
we appreciate that it may not always be convenient to call us, therefore why not review and take advantage of your discount offer online by visiting ...... and selecting the customer login option. Our customer portal provides you with the functionality to speak to us by web chat, complete your income and expenditure, make a payment or setup an affordable payment arrangement at your convenience
What to do next
It is important you contact us no later than 21 September 2016 to discuss the options available to you. We are here to assist you, but on export of the discount period on 21st September 2016 the offer will be withdrawn
Your faithfully......
+++++
So the question is what do I do next? I am obviously nervous by this and don't want to receive any CCJ's or court summons. It is an alleged incident over 5 years ago......
Shall I use the letter details Umkomaas above? Although I suspect this will not make the matter go away
Thanks again for all your continued help with this. How can something be claimed from over 5 years ago???
You should send the Gan letter that you were advised to send three weeks ago.
The law in England or Wales allows a court claim to be made up to six years after the event. Anyone can make a claim for as long as they wan, but can't use the court system after 5 years in Scotland or six years in E & W.I married my cousin. I had to...I don't have a sister.
All my screwdrivers are cordless."You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks0 -
to be honest I only saw the response from Umkomaas today. As I'd taken the previous advice to ignore the first letter, I didn't check back on the forum.
I thought I had a setting to notify me of new responses but as I hadn't received anything I assumed nothing new had ben posted.
I will send the letter this week
Thanks again0 -
From this and other threads involving pre-pofa claims, it appears that they are the ones being sent the '40% discount' letter. Is it a last ditched attempt to get money prior to the 6 year exclusion.
As mentioned in previous replies, your case is pre-pofa, so as the 'keeper' of the car - you - cannot be held responsible. The 'driver' contravened their so-called rules, so they can only take the 'driver' to court. And unless they have evidence to support their claim, it will become a very pointless exercise.0
This discussion has been closed.
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